Why 3 slot anything with 3 recharge enhancements???


Airhammer

 

Posted

I may have been slightly hyperbolic in my first post there, partly because as Eldagore said most of the responses had been absolutely vile to the OP. In any case, however, I'm satisfied with my later elaboration that I simply don't believe that difference matters very much in practice for most builds, especially if you consider that this was put into a melee archetype forum.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
I may have been slightly hyperbolic in my first post there, partly because as Eldagore said most of the responses had been absolutely vile to the OP. In any case, however, I'm satisfied with my later elaboration that I simply don't believe that difference matters very much in practice for most builds, especially if you consider that this was put into a melee archetype forum.
Build decisions aren't usually reasonable to judge in isolation. There are players spend hundreds of millions to slot purple sets primarily for the +recharge. But +10% global recharge is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. However, most players don't usually do *only* that: that specific set is usually part of a comprehensive build strategy (even if an informal one) generally surrounding "grab as much recharge as you can." In the grand scheme of things you're not going to notice one damage proc in one attack power either, so when it comes to deciding if that slot should be put into Hasten, or into Health, or into an attack, what you decide to do may depend greatly on what you decided to do elsewhere. One proc doesn't mean much usually. One slot of recharge doesn't mean much usually. Few decisions "matter" in isolation. The extra slot of recharge might matter to a speed-driven build. It might matter to someone that was trying to minimize the downtime of Hasten because they are in Granite and every bit counts, or because they are Dark Armor and 10 seconds of downtime is significant to Dark Regeneration, or simply because there's no better place to put the slot. It might make more sense to put that slot into a 5-slotted attack and add a proc, if you have a build that can take advantage of that extra proc.

I guess when I build, most slots in most powers are not, by themselves, extremely important. The first forty might be, but the last twenty might be tweaking the build looking for the best of the available options. Cutting the downtime of Hasten is just as valid as adding a percent of DPS or cutting endurance burn by a couple hundredths of a point per second. That's often the choices being made at the end of the build.


Incidentally, another way to look at the third slot is to ask what the average overall recharge buff of Hasten is, averaged over its up and down time. Perma Hasten would be +70% of course. Two-slotted Hasten (no global recharge) would be about +42%. Three-slotted Hasten would be about +45.7%. The third slot is acting in average terms like a +3.7% global recharge buff.

So its worth about half the strength of an LotG. That's true so long as the difference in slotting doesn't make either case go perma. That perhaps frames the choice in better terms relative to the other options players typically choose to take or not take in the invention system. People are willing to put a slot into a defense power as a mule for an LotG, and pay a hundred million inf for the enhancement itself (or use merits for it). If its worth a slot and a hundred million inf, is half the buff worth a slot and less than a million inf?

That seems to me to be more of a personal choice than a question of objective value of the slot.


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Posted

True enough, I've spent slots on goofier things than 3.7% recharge. Lately though, rare is the build where I'm not agonizing over each and every slot all the way up to 50. There are so many ways now to make each slot count, especially when one is as addicted to defense as to recharge. I most prefer it when a slot does multiple things for me. Not only is a lotg global a very powerful recharge boost, it also produces an extra quarter of a percent of defense to all in combat jumping, for instance.

That's one thing that annoys me about hasten, to the point where more often than not I try to accomplish my goals without taking it in the first place; it is totally one dimensional and uninteresting. It may be an influence saver and it certainly helps if you're aiming to push a particular limit that relies on gigantor recharge, but once you decide that you need it you're never getting those slots back and the closer to perma it is the more often you'll display your orange mittens of shame.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
Thank you for proving this is indeed a video game forum.

The amount of snark and condescension in this thread is rather disturbing. Way to show how good the community of this game is gang.
Most people do not react well to the kind of condescension that is present in the original post. Most people do not react well to the kind of person who comes in and tries to be the "know it all" attitude represented.

Information presented in the post almost always gets overlooked (even ignored) when the OP has that attitude.


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Posted

On my SD/SS/pyre tanker, it took every bit of recharge from set bonuses, LOTGs and three slots of recharge in hasten to get permanent double-stacked active defense, permanent double-stacked rage and permahasten; permahasten is what makes the rest of it possible, by the way. I get so much benefit from it (a lot of long-recharge powers in this build) that it was absolutely worth it for another 5 or so seconds of 70% recharge.


 

Posted

I must apologize if I have offended you on this subject. Please forgive me if I have but I was asking because sometimes it can be a bit difficult to build for greater defense and/or resistance and for that matter sometimes there is never enough slots to complete the build. So that one extra, needed slot can be pulled from hasten, again ... just my opinion.

However, I should have explained it in a much precised matter for builds that are not planned for exemping down towards lower level pvp/pve gameplay where as 3 slots for Hasten could and can be better enhanced if those enhancements were lvl 33 or so forth (or an alternate build that is built for exemping downwards to low level gameplay would prove better IMO).

This thread was intended to be helpful, not to be outcast as a noob or any other insulting comments as if, I am a "five-year old child" as one has put it.

Besides there are 3 more slots coming next issue (not etcheded in stone) making a total of 70 slots - not 67 as we presently have it.

Thanks Rangle M. Down


 

Posted

Unfortunately you came across quite strong in your OP, which lead to the responses you had. As I mentioned, sometimes having a third slot in hasten is better then a slot somewhere else. Sometimes it's not. Each build is different.

So, you say 3 more slots next issue? 0.0 Where did you see that?!?!?!?!?! LINK PLEASE!!!!

(pst...are you sure you didn't mean "Etched in stone"? )


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
So, you say 3 more slots next issue? 0.0 Where did you see that?!?!?!?!?! LINK PLEASE!!!!
They tried to give us three more enhancement slots an issue ago, likely with the intent to allow is to buy them in the market like extra costume slots. It broke the entire respec and power system so they sidelined it indefinitely until they could get the bugs worked out.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
Unfortunately you came across quite strong in your OP, which lead to the responses you had. As I mentioned, sometimes having a third slot in hasten is better then a slot somewhere else. Sometimes it's not. Each build is different.

So, you say 3 more slots next issue? 0.0 Where did you see that?!?!?!?!?! LINK PLEASE!!!!

(pst...are you sure you didn't mean "Etched in stone"? )
When the previous issue was in closed beta they added the "3 slots per odd level" starting at 25 instead of 31. Unfortunately that also added a really nasty bug that caused any level 50 who added slots or respecced to have any purple enhancements deleted. Apparently they were unable to fix that bug in time for the issue to go live so the extra slots were pulled. There was Dev commentary to the effect that the slots would happen when/if the bugs were worked out.

I haven't heard any news about next issue one way or another but more slots was definitely on the Dev's radar last issue so it's possible.


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Posted

Huh, well that's rather definitive evidence that they're planning to do this then, isn't it? Sounds like a pretty surmountable bug. While I like the balance of slot value how it is now, it's hard to complain about the addition of three more slots in that range. Seems like I start to bottleneck there in terms of what I'd like to spend slots on on just about every new character lately.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Huh, well that's rather definitive evidence that they're planning to do this then, isn't it? Sounds like a pretty surmountable bug.
Its incredibly tricky because the game doesn't so much hand us things as we always have them and they get "unlocked" as we progress. But then other parts of the game presume a certain kind of progression and trigger off of what we have without regard to how we got it. The combination of the two without strong sanity checking creates all sorts of weird opportunities for strange bugs when you try to mess with progression.

There are bugs involving progression so nightmarish I cannot even discuss them on the open forums, and I can't even say why I can't. But those slots may be a long time coming, depending on the level of resources allocated to ferreting out all the potential problems.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
There are bugs involving progression so nightmarish I cannot even discuss them on the open forums, and I can't even say why I can't. But those slots may be a long time coming, depending on the level of resources allocated to ferreting out all the potential problems.
I know in one of the relatively recent streams we got a remark that they're still finding new things that change broke.


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