I love my doms, but I'm hardly a pro - learning every time I take one for a spin, but in it's most elegant and fun form, the mindset is:
- Hold it, kill it.
As powers and abilities build:
- Hold them all, kill them at your leisure.
Think blaster where you have to shoot it quick before it kills you for frenetic activity, but that is balanced by submitting your foes to obnoxious amounts of mez that you can toss about like candy at a parade.
Speed - attack, attack, attack to build Domination and keep it going.
(for teaming, best advice is limit/avoid the aoe immob - or at least don't use it early. Your instinct, despite best intentions, will be to use it as a lead. The resulting respond can lead to bad things. Let the team aggressors set aggro and then mez the dangers and kill like a blaster or scrapper)
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Think kinda an amalgam of Scrapper/Stalker/Blaster. Use your controls as your Armor, mezzing the painful/trouble mobs, and then killing the other ones. On my lowbies, before I have every mob AoE control, I hold one, then tab and start killing another, swapping back to keep that one mezzed as needed/recharged.|
Originally Posted by schattenbolt
Rather than asking what the best power combinations are, or how to best build one, I'm going to ask all you experienced dominators out there how the dominator is supposed to be played. What mindset should I have, what goals on teams should I try to achieve? How does one balance support and damage without crippling them both?
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On a team it's much the same role, but aided if there's a meatshield to piss things off for you. Also, on AV's, you will often be looked to for not only damage, but crowd control/immobilize to keep them from running all over the map once debuffed (especially if toggled).
Otherwise, it's pretty simple... mezz All the Things, then KILL ALL THE THINGS!
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A note about AoE Immobilize on teams - unless you're Gravity, your AoE immob has knockback protection which your team might find useful (or frustrating if you actually need mitigation and it's being provided by something other than you).
But yes, I definitely wouldn't open up with it unless you have really high defenses.
When I played the one I got to 50 (before the Fren, that is), which was a Mind/Psi Dom, my philosophy was this:
Play as a slightly gimped Troller. In other words, understand it's gonna go slower, and maybe slot for the lesser damage, otherwise, play about the same.
Then, when Domination happens... Go scrapperlock until it wears off.
It was great fun doing that... "I'm on Dom, keep up!" *takes off mowing down mobs until Dom wore off*
Some team mates didn't understand that Domilock that Domination brings... at first, but they figured it out. 
Domination is the reason to run a Dominator, otherwise, just run a 'troller and be done with it, IMO.
(edit: Again, this is pre-Fren. I haven't played that same Dominator Mind/Emp build to 50 to really have a decent comparison, so others MMV.)
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But that was before the dom changes I suppose. I also played an Ice/Psi to 50 and she was basically 'gimp ice troller' till PSW and later permadom.|
Originally Posted by houtex
When I played the one I got to 50 (before the Fren, that is), which was a Mind/Psi Dom, my philosophy was this:
Play as a slightly gimped Troller. In other words, understand it's gonna go slower, and maybe slot for the lesser damage, otherwise, play about the same. Then, when Domination happens... Go scrapperlock until it wears off. It was great fun doing that... "I'm on Dom, keep up!" *takes off mowing down mobs until Dom wore off* Some team mates didn't understand that Domilock that Domination brings... at first, but they figured it out. Domination is the reason to run a Dominator, otherwise, just run a 'troller and be done with it, IMO. (edit: Again, this is pre-Fren. I haven't played that same Dominator Mind/Emp build to 50 to really have a decent comparison, so others MMV.) |
Nowadays Doms are much different. Damage is good from the start.
OP, think of Doms as a damage class with control, not as a support class (in the sense of support like debuffs, buffs, heals, etc).
Some sets have buffs/debuffs (psi with drain psyche, plant control with spirit tree) but it's not their main strenght.
And they can have very different playstyles - an elec/stone Dom for example would be mostly be played in melee range, while you can make a purely ranged dom with some combos like mind/fire and earth/fire (I can't think of any other secondary that will play as well as fire from pure range, since /nrg has total focus which is crazy good and whirling hands is actually decent on a dom - ice has ISC which is very good so I wouldn't recommend skipping it - but my plant/ice goes to melee just for ISC and she does fine).
Most secondaries tho, are a mix of melee and ranged attacks, and you probably won't need all the attacks, but it's fun to try them all. While a ranged /fire build plays a lot like a fire blaster, a /thorny assault is a lot like spines, there's plenty of variety and I recommend testing what attacks you like.
And since dom's damage is the same now no matter Domination is up, your power picks and slotting on the control primary may be different from a controller. For example, my mind troller uses a chain of mesmerize-levitate-dominate all slotted for damage and procs, on a mind dom I wouldn't pick all three (Levitate would be left out in my case) and wouldn't slot them for damage if I have better set bonuses to shoot for. Or even on SOs, since you'll have plenty of damage from the secondary (slotting a high damage AoE immob like Roots for damage is always good tho, especially if your secondary lacks AoE damage).
Thanks for all the awesome replies. It's funny, but it seems that I've been playing my elec/elec blaster a lot like a dominator. I use stamina drains and ST holds for control and then mix in melee and range attacks as I fly in and out of the scrum. Seems that playing a blaptroller would really be more what I am looking for (of course, I rolled him back in i8, long before elec control). I rolled a new elec/elec dominator and I'm excited to give him a shot.
Thanks again.
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory
Funny you say that. My first level 50 way back was a Elec/Elec Blaster, and I used to think that I played her like a Dominator. This was back before I even had City of Villains.
My main is now a Dominator, and its absolutely true.
Hold first. Then damage, closing to melee if you're safe to do so for even more damage. Just like I did back on my Blaster.
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That's a good example of what a Dom feels like, because elec/elec has a lot of control for a Blaster, plus very powerful melee attacks and some blasts. Elec assault for doms is a mix of the two blaster elec powersets, so not that hot on ranged and great melee damage. But you get a lot more control on elec control and it's the best sapping set, my elec/thorns dom was sapping mobs fast on DOs. An elec/elec dom favors melee and with conductive aura, static field and all the other controls, it's a safe place to be.
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Originally Posted by schattenbolt
Thanks for all the awesome replies. It's funny, but it seems that I've been playing my elec/elec blaster a lot like a dominator. I use stamina drains and ST holds for control and then mix in melee and range attacks as I fly in and out of the scrum. Seems that playing a blaptroller would really be more what I am looking for (of course, I rolled him back in i8, long before elec control). I rolled a new elec/elec dominator and I'm excited to give him a shot.
Thanks again. |
The meme that crystallised the notion for Castle that led to the proper revamp was Dominators are the archetype with two primaries.
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My elec/elec dom is level 34 now, and remains a favorite, partly from the power choices and partly from concept. Phrankenshock is one of my "Hallowe'en" characters, loosely based on the Boris Karloff version of the Frankenstein monster. |
Originally Posted by schattenbolt
Thanks for all the awesome replies. It's funny, but it seems that I've been playing my elec/elec blaster a lot like a dominator. I use stamina drains and ST holds for control and then mix in melee and range attacks as I fly in and out of the scrum. Seems that playing a blaptroller would really be more what I am looking for (of course, I rolled him back in i8, long before elec control). I rolled a new elec/elec dominator and I'm excited to give him a shot.
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I took an early shot at an ice/ice dom that I dropped. When electric control came out, I was fascinated with the set, delighted with static field, and overjoyed with synaptic overload. My young dominator in his level 30s was able to drain Eochai during the Halloween event to a mewing kitten.
The important tactic to early dominating is: hold/control the spawn, and THEN, unload on the untethered/unimpeded foe, finish them off. They are the most dangerous. Jumping in and out works because of static field and conductive aura. Conductive aura will initially interrupt spawns as well, so moving in and out has many advantages. If you can fight with a held foe in the conductive aura - even better. I like electric assault and its melee attacks, too.
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Solo:
dominator sets have an aoe control that you can use every fight (might need 3 recharges to do it). Ice slick, earthquake, seeds of confusion, etc. Solo you open with that for some control. You also have a single target hold, use that on a particularly obnoxious foe. Then beat them down fast.
The key with solo is to get control first, then beat them down. You can't heal, so you want to avoid getting hit.
Team:
dominator is more of a straight controller in a team. Use your aoe controls to hinder your foes, single target hold an important foe. Use single target attacks to help clean up. Unless you are playing with a tanker, your AoE attacks are probably a trap. Not enough damage to swing the battle but enough to make you a target.
Dominators IMO function with two thoughts in mind
LOCK IT DOWN and KNOCK IT DOWN...
Lock down your foes so they have less ability to attack you.. then take them down before they can take you down. Depending on your build you can be mostly ranged.You can be very melee-centric. You can be a mix of both..
Definitely strive for perma dom because once you have it you are protected against most mezzes in the game and you get your end bar refilled each time in activates.
Pets.. Im a dominator.. im not dependent on them for damage.. sure they are nice to have around but i dont NEED them.. Ive got my own arsenal of attacks...
Depending on your build you may or may not have access to a heal or a lot of self buffs
But that what those defenders and controllers are there for.. Plus im taking down the stuff it takes them too long to take down...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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What? Dominator's Thorn Burst does almost the same damage as Scrapper Spine Burst. Fire Breath is also close to the Blaster version.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Team:
dominator is more of a straight controller in a team. Use your aoe controls to hinder your foes, single target hold an important foe. Use single target attacks to help clean up. Unless you are playing with a tanker, your AoE attacks are probably a trap. Not enough damage to swing the battle but enough to make you a target. |
And these two are the most damaging ATs in the game.
They even out damage Stalkers (Total Focus), so no, you don't play as controllers in teams, if you know what you're doing you'll be safe enough to melee and AoE mobs.
great, so you have one aoe that will aggro a bunch of enemies unless someone has them taunted. It won't kill them, just make them angry.
Yes, "if you know what you are doing" is a great line which allows for anything.
Maybe it is just me, but I tend to assume that someone asking for advice and saying "Dominators are something I've always struggled with" does not know what they are doing.
YMMV
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You don't need to know too much about what you're doing. As long as you've aoe mezzed first you can unleash aoe damage at your leisure. If it isn't enough damage to kill, then it probably won't aggro that much either. That being said, all of my doms have some sort of self-heal (except the grav/nrg which had vengeance), so I wouldn't say expect to never be hit.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
great, so you have one aoe that will aggro a bunch of enemies unless someone has them taunted. It won't kill them, just make them angry.
Yes, "if you know what you are doing" is a great line which allows for anything. Maybe it is just me, but I tend to assume that someone asking for advice and saying "Dominators are something I've always struggled with" does not know what they are doing. YMMV |
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Well the OP played controllers so he must be kinda familiar with control sets.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
great, so you have one aoe that will aggro a bunch of enemies unless someone has them taunted. It won't kill them, just make them angry.
Yes, "if you know what you are doing" is a great line which allows for anything. Maybe it is just me, but I tend to assume that someone asking for advice and saying "Dominators are something I've always struggled with" does not know what they are doing. YMMV |
Plus there was plenty of advice on how to play them, yours seemed off to me because 'doms have low damage' and 'doms are too fragile'.
Well they aren't. As others said before, mez everyone and go to town, use your main ST hold as much as possible. If you feel like you need to use your primary only on teams, you're doing it wrong, since they are almost as damaging as scrappers and blasters. And they're MUCH safer than any blaster.
Saying that a Dom's damage won't make much difference is like saying your Scrapper, Stalker or Blaster isn't that good for damage and you'd better stand in the back.
Doms aren't multidimensional toons like trollers who have a myriad of buffs, debuffs and damage (especially after epics). Doms are simpler: control and damage, and *high* damage with plenty of mitigation in some secondaries too. If you feel too weak without a heal, you can always pick aid self, doms have more opportunities to use it than a rad/fire or fire/fire blaster.
I see value in each of y'alls posts, and they really do go far to explain Dominators. I am curious. Outside of mezzes for mitigation, how fragile are Dominators? Are they middle of the road like Controllers? Are they glass-cannons like Blasters?
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Well I'd say they are more fragile than trollers because trollers aren't causing as much aggro and most have a self heal and debuffs. But they're far safer than most blasters.
As I said, some secondaries (Stone, energy) have plenty of mitigation with stuns, holds, knockdown. And if you're leveling an elec control/elec assault, you'll be draining mobs way faster than an elec/elec blaster, which is another form of mitigation, even elec controllers live in melee because the elec control primary, no matter what secondary, is the best end drainer in the game, or at least the only one that are able to drain on DOs (some combos like elec/therm corrs are good drainers but they need IO sets and expensive builds).
In some cases i like to pick aid self (plant/thorns for example, since she plays a lot like a spines scrapper with a control primary), in others I don't feel the need for it )elec/fire, pure ranged dom I have, and my purpled ice/psi who has drian psyche so I didn't even need stamina to go to 50 when it wasn't inherent).
Well by exempting the Control powers from survivability then they'll end up being more fragile than Blasters because they do a bit less damage. Taking into account everything, I'd say that they are about equal with Controllers; whilst Controllers can mez and debuff they often can't deal enough damage quick enough to survive prolonged fights, whereas Dominators can do damage to defeat things quickly, however hard Control powers have relatively short durations compared to debuffs so you have to kill quickly or be killed yourself, just like Blasters.
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What amuses me about this question is that Blasters have more hit points than Controllers... so if all but a few things are locked down or you're talking stray AoE damage, they're harder to kill than the Controller.|
Originally Posted by schattenbolt
I see value in each of y'alls posts, and they really do go far to explain Dominators. I am curious. Outside of mezzes for mitigation, how fragile are Dominators? Are they middle of the road like Controllers? Are they glass-cannons like Blasters?
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That said, I'd put them somewhere between overall, closer to the Controller side than the Blaster side but more dependent on how you play them - a Controller has a secondary that also helps with survival, while a Dominator's secondary pretty much just mangles things. But much of the survivability comes from an abundance of control, and a high recharge perma-Dom will have so much control with inherent mez protection from Domination that they can be safer than most Controllers.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
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Originally Posted by Brillig
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I think the reason I figure that blasters are a bit more fragile, and why I ask about their fragility sans controls, is because not only do I have a tendency to "derp-out" at times and totally forget what I'm doing, but I also have 5 cats and a wife, so someone's usually fighting, puking, blowing up the litterbox, or asking me for something so distractions are easy to come by. On my blaster, I simply drum my fingers on 1, 2, 3, and 4, and my character just plays himself until everything is dead. But with Doms and Trollers, That seems to just hold the same guy REALLY hard while his buddies turn me into a pinata.
But it's good to know.
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory
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I try to team with lowbies on Freedom server. I broadcast on Help chnl or in zone broadcast. I play my Dom's, among other toons, and I especially look out for lowbie Dominators or controllers to invite and we make a small team of 2-4. I have diff set for about 5-6 peeps (usually).|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
great, so you have one aoe that will aggro a bunch of enemies unless someone has them taunted. It won't kill them, just make them angry.
Yes, "if you know what you are doing" is a great line which allows for anything. Maybe it is just me, but I tend to assume that someone asking for advice and saying "Dominators are something I've always struggled with" does not know what they are doing. YMMV |
I hope that by my example they see how to use controls to manage the field, and then eliminate them.
When on my earth/thorns Dom, stalagmites, stone cages, aim, fling thorns as I approach the grp, then jump in middle of the group, Thorn Burst, wactch them die, pick any boss or LT still alive with a well placed cone Ripper, lunge, game over. If there are more critters, I thrown two thorn burst and not just one. But I have even learned, I dont want to play a scrapper again, especially a spines scrapper. My Dom can do the same thing except crit but I Dominate the field and then pwn them with great dmg attacks, and then go on.
I also have a plant/thorns ( I love Thorns, I absolutely love the AOE-licious set) the dmg mix is just beastly.
I also have an earth/earth Dom, a Controller with SMASH! I get to show lowbies how to play Doms and how fun they can be. I exemp down to do their mishs or I do mine at lvl 50.
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Taking into account what is quoted here, this is just wrong, very much so. Controllers, depending on builds or powersets, outdamage dominators, and when they outdamage Doms, they do so by a lot.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
......Taking into account everything, I'd say that they are about equal with Controllers; whilst Controllers can mez and debuff they often can't deal enough damage quick enough to survive prolonged fights, whereas Dominators can do damage to defeat things quickly, however hard Control powers have relatively short durations compared to debuffs so you have to kill quickly or be killed yourself, just like Blasters.
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An illusion/storm is a Monster when it comes to dmg. Fire/storm, plant/storm, fire/kin, plant/kin, plant/trick arrow, fire/tick arrow....
Here's more, in a prolonged fight there is no Dom that will deal more dmg than a plant/storm. In a prolonged fight, especially vs an AV, an illusion/cold or illusion/rad will put a Dom way behind. Those are some examples.
Many times controllers outdamage Dominators, and in many cases, Dominators can out control controllers.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
Heyo,
So I'm an old-school player, dating back to just before Issue 2 went live. I've taken a few large breaks here and there, so I end up having to process huge amounts of updates all at once. Typically, I'll play blasty ranged types of characters, or brutes.
Dominators are something I've always struggled with. I've played controllers and I've played blasters, and dominators seem to be an amalgam of the two. However, I can't figure out the right mindset to be using while playing one. I know that part of the issue is that I hate playing red-side which was the only way to play one for the longest time. Now that that's been nullified, I'm interested in trying a dominator again.
Rather than asking what the best power combinations are, or how to best build one, I'm going to ask all you experienced dominators out there how the dominator is supposed to be played. What mindset should I have, what goals on teams should I try to achieve? How does one balance support and damage without crippling them both?
Victory
Schattenbolt - Blaster Elec/Elec/Elec
Pierce Steele - Blaster Arch/MM/Munitions
Paragons of Victory