Consolidated Tanker Improvement Ideas


Acemace

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
My apologies Knight of Khonsu. I looked at your number of posts, not your join date. It was wrong of me to use you as an example, and I apologize.
Say no more. Its easy to assume one thing, especially on a message board. No harm no foul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
However, the type of person I was referring to does exist (I was one) and is a problem for Tankers. In console games (which is mostly what I played before City of X) you will not find any "Agro Magnet" archtype. I have learned that if you come over from some other MMORPGs you might have seen the archtype and tactic before. But I had never seen it, and assumed since the Tankers were the heaviest dude around they would have at least one good teeth rattling attack. I found that in my SS/Invul Brutes (one of which I have with a stupid expensive build right now :-0 ) But Tankers confused me for months, and I believe that effect may still exist for other players new to MMORPGs.
My first toon was a scrapper. Those are easy to use in my opinion. Before I took up a tank, I paid close attention to how they were used. I witnessed a number of ways people employeed them. Those that failed, I noted on what not to do, and those who were successful, I noted what to do. My brother, who's played CoH longer than me, I picked his brain and teamed with him learning the roll of the Tanker. I'm thankful for that because to date, I've not had anyone complain about my tanking. We all know players will speak up during a mission when a tanker is not doing their part. Of all the tankers I've used, the worse one in my experience is the electric/electric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Now that I understand Tankers better I play them differently, expect different performance, and enjoy the experience much better.
I couldn't agree more with you. I just want to see them adjust the tanker where it is back to being the premire aggro generator above what the Brute and Scrapper are capable of doing, with or without specialized IO sets.


Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.

 

Posted

I have been thinking hard about this, and I believe I have a fresh idea for this effort:

ALL tanker attack powers that do zero damage should have a damage component, and allow damage sets to be slotted. Period.

Touch of Fear, Lightning Clap, Ice Patch, Fault, and Hand Clap. Touch of fear gains a big dose of toxic DOT damage, lightning clap gets a little energy damage, ice patch gets some cold damage, fault gets smashing damage, and hand clap....well.

Hand clap might get left the same, super strength is already REALLY good. If it gets boosted too, then smashing damage ftw.

The BIG boost here, is Taunt.

The Tanker's Taunt power needs to do psionic damage. And then it needs to accept damage IO sets. Heck, I'd even see a strong argument to raise the target cap for Taunt to 15, same as any other ranged AOE attack.

Taunt wouldn't do much, mind you, maybe ten points. But this simple change would boost tankers enormously.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
I have been thinking hard about this, and I believe I have a fresh idea for this effort:

ALL tanker attack powers that do zero damage should have a damage component, and allow damage sets to be slotted. Period.

Touch of Fear, Lightning Clap, Ice Patch, Fault, and Hand Clap. Touch of fear gains a big dose of toxic DOT damage, lightning clap gets a little energy damage, ice patch gets some cold damage, fault gets smashing damage, and hand clap....well.

Hand clap might get left the same, super strength is already REALLY good. If it gets boosted too, then smashing damage ftw.

The BIG boost here, is Taunt.

The Tanker's Taunt power needs to do psionic damage. And then it needs to accept damage IO sets. Heck, I'd even see a strong argument to raise the target cap for Taunt to 15, same as any other ranged AOE attack.

Taunt wouldn't do much, mind you, maybe ten points. But this simple change would boost tankers enormously.
Mauk, are you suggesting they do damage as a way to leverage threat level?


 

Posted

It was suggested that I copy / paste the idea over here.

New Tanker Inherent : Demoralize

Tankers are a force of might who not only inspire their team, but demoralize their foes who are unable to break their iron will. (Or something like that)

PbAoE aura with increasing effects the longer foes remain in it, strength of effects is determined by team (including Tankers) HP much like vigilance is tied to end discount. Effects do not stack from multiple applications of demoralize (No tanker super team, srry) however foes subjected to multiple auras (more than 1 tank on the team) see increased rate of demoralized effects.

Random numbers for an idea of the effects.

At 100% health

2-5 Seconds : - 3% to hit / -10% defense / -5% Resists

5-10 Seconds : -5% to hit / -15% defense / -10% resists

10 - 30 Seconds : -10% to hit / -25% defense / -15% resists / -20% Runspeed

30-60 Seconds : -15% to hit / -35% defense / -20% resists / -40% Runspeed/ -50 Regen

60 + seconds : -20% to hit / -50% defense / -30% resists / -60% runspeed /-100 regen / Small -Special

If any 1 member of the team is defeated, the effects dissapear and any timers on foes reset. (Reward tankers for maintaining aggro)

If a tankers health dips below 20% effects dissapear and timers reset. (Reward Tankers for being Tanky)

Allows tankers to do more damage solo, in teams, etc. without them simply doing "More damage" and keeps them off the heels of Brutes and scrappers.

*Note The numbers posted up above are what looked clean when I typed them out, balance was not implied and values could be adjusted accordingly.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
Mauk, are you suggesting they do damage as a way to leverage threat level?
This is one way this change would boost tanker performance: Damage yields more aggro.

In addition, allowing more tanker powers to slot damage sets will allow more flexibility in slotting options, which will make tankers more appealing.

Making Taunt a damage power, and then bringing it in-line with all the other damage powers for target caps, gives tankers a useful ranged AOE, unique among the melee AT's.

Even better, a low-damage taunt allows incarnate powers to be leveraged atop it: It can be used as a damage or debuff vehicle, which again raises a Tanker's aggro.

It would be a very, VERY nice change.

The other no-damage powers are generally just garbage filler cluttering up tanker's attack sets. When was the last time you saw somebody singing the praises of Lightning Clap, or Touch of Fear?

Make them actual attacks. Keep the damage low-ish if you must, but at least give tanks the option.


 

Posted

What if they added an interface power that just did taunt? Loke a super punchvoke.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
It was suggested that I copy / paste the idea over here.

New Tanker Inherent : Demoralize

Tankers are a force of might who not only inspire their team, but demoralize their foes who are unable to break their iron will. (Or something like that)

PbAoE aura with increasing effects the longer foes remain in it, strength of effects is determined by team (including Tankers) HP much like vigilance is tied to end discount. Effects do not stack from multiple applications of demoralize (No tanker super team, srry) however foes subjected to multiple auras (more than 1 tank on the team) see increased rate of demoralized effects.

Random numbers for an idea of the effects.

At 100% health

2-5 Seconds : - 3% to hit / -10% defense / -5% Resists

5-10 Seconds : -5% to hit / -15% defense / -10% resists

10 - 30 Seconds : -10% to hit / -25% defense / -15% resists / -20% Runspeed

30-60 Seconds : -15% to hit / -35% defense / -20% resists / -40% Runspeed/ -50 Regen

60 + seconds : -20% to hit / -50% defense / -30% resists / -60% runspeed /-100 regen / Small -Special

If any 1 member of the team is defeated, the effects dissapear and any timers on foes reset. (Reward tankers for maintaining aggro)

If a tankers health dips below 20% effects dissapear and timers reset. (Reward Tankers for being Tanky)

Allows tankers to do more damage solo, in teams, etc. without them simply doing "More damage" and keeps them off the heels of Brutes and scrappers.

*Note The numbers posted up above are what looked clean when I typed them out, balance was not implied and values could be adjusted accordingly.


I would like to see some version of this for one main reason: It would benefit Tanks when they need it most, namely soloing against tough targets and teaming against the same.

Have you ever been on a team where everyone is doing so much damage that the mobs melt? Tanking something like this is kind of pointless as there's little time for the enemy to get shots off. With this Demoralize idea a team that good would gain no benefit but then they wouldn't need any either.

However in early levels or against a single hard opponent this would be a big boost for the team. The numbers would have to be a bit lower I think but I can see an enemy unable to break a Tank becoming frustrated, making mistakes, missing his opponent etc.

I would not be disappointed if some version of this at least made it to Test.


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Posted

Not much activity over the holiday, but the front posts are all updated.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Here is another one.
The Tankers role is to take the agro and the hits so the rest of the team does not.
A problem with this is AoE attacks targetted at the tank can splash onto the other toons.
How about when a tank uses Taunt (the actual power) it provides a non-stacking/non-enhancable +10% AoE Def buff for 10 seconds in a 10' radius around the tank to all allies but not the tank itself (like Grant Cover from Shield Def).
Actual numbers are just what Im thinking as I type this so will need to be balanced.

If a toon is within the 10' radius of more than 1 tank and they both use Taunt at the same time the Def bonus doesnt stack.


 

Posted

Here's an idea I just dreamed up.

Give Tankers an inherent click that functions like Burnout.

-But it only works on their Secondary power set and excludes Build Up and Rage type powers.
-Has a fixed recharge of 1 minute.



.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Here's an idea I just dreamed up.

Give Tankers an inherent click that functions like Burnout.

-But it only works on their Secondary power set and excludes Build Up and Rage type powers.
-Has a fixed recharge of 1 minute.



.
To my mind this doesn't solve what I percieve the problem to be, although I'm not actually sure that there'd be much agreement on what the perceived problem is.

Some are concerned that with IO'd builds, tankers are not sufficiently superior to brutes or scrappers solo. I'd counter that with the tanker ATIO as it now stands, this is simply not the case. +20% res is anywhere from a significant benefit to a total game changer. It's not ignorable, even for SR tanks. The scrapper and brute ATIO procs are fine, but not close to this good.

If we're talking fully IO'd builds, then adding in 20% res all make it a lot harder, to the point of being silly, to look at a brute, and look at a tanker and say: This brute can do whatever that tank can. You may not value that added capacity, in that case? Fine please enjoy your scrapper or brute, but there can be little argument that the tank isn't going to be quite a lot tougher, even hellishly tougher for many builds.

Some are concerned that in teams and leagues, Buffed tankers don't offer more than buffed brutes for survival, and that they offer less when it comes to damage. I don't know that this will be true for all, or even the majority of leagues, but I can see how it's potentially a real concern, and all the more so with larger leagues and more powers. I'd particularly agree that multiple tankers offer especially little benefit, possibly less than any other AT in terms of stackability.

Stackability is important. With the ATIO coming down the pipe, a better solo tank is really very hard to justify. If we're talking IO'd builds, and when we're arguing about solo builds that are as durable as tanks, we are almost exclusively talking about IO'd builds, then we should be considering that 20% res.

Adding to the tankers damage cap would probably be the simplest fix, though the least interesting, it'd at least help out on leagues and make little difference solo (insp fuelled farming excepted). It would not solve the problem of tanker stacking in medium large teams and small leagues which will not always be able to cap damage. It's a smallish unaddressed problem, and something I'm sure we could live with, (EDIT: particularly since brutes, in these situations, probably are not hitting the res cap) but I'd rather see something that addresses stackability and force multiplication on all teams or leages.

I talked earlier about tanks debuffing foes with gauntlet, but that's just one way forward. If tanks (slightly) buffed their team in a stackable way, or (slightly) buffed each other in a stackable way? Well, I don't conceptually like it as much as the debuffing in gauntlet, but even so, the "brutes are just as good at durability and better everywhere important, problem would be solved. A team of 8 tanks is still not going to be optimal, but 3 tanks on a 7 man TF is not going to seem like a waste.

Increasing the tanker aggro cap probably isn't needed, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea either. I'd at least like to see it on test.


The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

 

Posted

Just a random idea I started thinking about after seeing the thread about tauntless Tankers, making the taunt power more useful solo and in teams, including when teaming with other Tankers.

The -range was a nice addition and I thought a -damage effect could sit alongside it, -10% for 12s (the same duration as the -range effect) - if it was slotted for a little recharge and the Tanker was spamming it they could maintain -30%, in line with what many Defenders could put out, and it would stack from multiple Tankers. Of course it has a lower target cap than most -damage powers available to defenders, and would require more spamming, so I don't see it encroaching too much on Defender territory.

In addition it would apply a flag to the primary target only (same as the -range effect on Brute taunt only applies to the primary target) - the flag would have a 10s duration.

I had a few ideas for what this flag could be used for, such as adding effects to the tier1 attack only, alongside Bruising. But one I particularly liked was adding a 'mini-bruising' -resistance effect to every attack from the Tanker's secondary, that would be in addition to the current Bruising, equal in effect to the cast time of the power (so an attack with a 2s animation would apply a 2% resistance debuff) and with a duration of 30s. Assuming you had a complete attack chain, regardless of which set you had, you would be able to build up a 10% resistance debuff over the 10 seconds the taunt flag was applied. You could then use Taunt again to reapply the flag and continue building up -resistance or just carry on attacking and take advantage of that 10% resistance debuff (in addition to the 20% from Bruising) for another 20s.

On a team however, every Tanker would be able to take advantage of the taunt flag applied by any one Tanker, much like Beam Rifle characters can take advantage of each other's Disintegration flag. With one Tanker keeping the taunt flag on a single target, every other Tanker could build up to and eventually maintain a 30% resistance debuff. Whereas Bruising doesn't stack from multiple Tankers, this would. As with the -damage it's similar to what many Defender sets can offer, but it's against a single target, takes time to build up and involves attacking constantly.

Solo it would give Tankers a little extra defence (from the -damage) and offence (from the -resistance), but in teams it would allow multiple Tankers to stack those effects to the benefit of the whole team (with several Tankers applying -damage even if a Blaster managed to steal aggro from all of them he'd be hit for less damage).

In particular it would help Tankers contribute damage against hard targets (both directly and by boosting the entire team's damage with resistance debuffs) without giving them higher damage in general, which would be encroaching on Scrapper and Brute territory.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expeditor View Post
Just a random idea I started thinking about after seeing the thread about tauntless Tankers, making the taunt power more useful solo and in teams, including when teaming with other Tankers.

The -range was a nice addition and I thought a -damage effect could sit alongside it, -10% for 12s (the same duration as the -range effect) - if it was slotted for a little recharge and the Tanker was spamming it they could maintain -30%, in line with what many Defenders could put out, and it would stack from multiple Tankers. Of course it has a lower target cap than most -damage powers available to defenders, and would require more spamming, so I don't see it encroaching too much on Defender territory.

In addition it would apply a flag to the primary target only (same as the -range effect on Brute taunt only applies to the primary target) - the flag would have a 10s duration.

I had a few ideas for what this flag could be used for, such as adding effects to the tier1 attack only, alongside Bruising. But one I particularly liked was adding a 'mini-bruising' -resistance effect to every attack from the Tanker's secondary, that would be in addition to the current Bruising, equal in effect to the cast time of the power (so an attack with a 2s animation would apply a 2% resistance debuff) and with a duration of 30s. Assuming you had a complete attack chain, regardless of which set you had, you would be able to build up a 10% resistance debuff over the 10 seconds the taunt flag was applied. You could then use Taunt again to reapply the flag and continue building up -resistance or just carry on attacking and take advantage of that 10% resistance debuff (in addition to the 20% from Bruising) for another 20s.

On a team however, every Tanker would be able to take advantage of the taunt flag applied by any one Tanker, much like Beam Rifle characters can take advantage of each other's Disintegration flag. With one Tanker keeping the taunt flag on a single target, every other Tanker could build up to and eventually maintain a 30% resistance debuff. Whereas Bruising doesn't stack from multiple Tankers, this would. As with the -damage it's similar to what many Defender sets can offer, but it's against a single target, takes time to build up and involves attacking constantly.

Solo it would give Tankers a little extra defence (from the -damage) and offence (from the -resistance), but in teams it would allow multiple Tankers to stack those effects to the benefit of the whole team (with several Tankers applying -damage even if a Blaster managed to steal aggro from all of them he'd be hit for less damage).

In particular it would help Tankers contribute damage against hard targets (both directly and by boosting the entire team's damage with resistance debuffs) without giving them higher damage in general, which would be encroaching on Scrapper and Brute territory.
This does do a couple of interesting things...

First off it stacks on teams, and buffs all team damage. I see that as solving the biggest problem tanks have: team stackability.

The magnitude of the debuff can be tuned such that any extra solo damage is mostly or totally counteracted by the attack chain time lost to taunting. This way you wouldn't have to buff tankers solo to buff them on teams.

I don't know how relevant a single target debuff would be in the current scheme of things, but that could be changed if needed.

Probably the largest problem is that there would be many who would resent another reason to feel "forced" to take taunt... It would not bother me but I have a feeling that the objections from some would get pretty loud.


The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

 

Posted

I don't know if anybody has said it yet, but let Stone Tankers use Minerals with Granite Armor, I was on a Recluse SF yesterday and was oneshotted by Sister Psyche multiple times due to absolutely no Psionic defense/resistance. While I may still get demolished by her, I might be able to at least hold her aggro long enough for the rest of the team to kill her if I could use Minerals with Granite.


 

Posted

I feel a slight increase in Tankers damage cap is long overdue, nothing too drastic like redoing their inherent.


 

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Originally Posted by Rosemeister View Post
I don't know if anybody has said it yet, but let Stone Tankers use Minerals with Granite Armor, I was on a Recluse SF yesterday and was oneshotted by Sister Psyche multiple times due to absolutely no Psionic defense/resistance. While I may still get demolished by her, I might be able to at least hold her aggro long enough for the rest of the team to kill her if I could use Minerals with Granite.
So you want to be able to have "0" weaknesses?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatred666 View Post
So you want to be able to have "0" weaknesses?
Lots of ideas I don't see happening as they lead me to wonder just how many more stabilizers does a tricycle need but got to trust in a Dev to make the right decisions.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Lots of ideas I don't see happening as they lead me to wonder just how many more stabilizers does a tricycle need but got to trust in a Dev to make the right decisions.
Trikes can be shockingly unstable under combined brake and cornering loads... you'd be better with a 2 or a 4 wheeler...

Just saying...

Now a reverse trike would get you a bit further...


The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

 

Posted

I'll admit, it took me too long to stumble into this thread, and that I haven't read through it all yet, but there are 2 simple things I would be overjoyed in seeing done, and I don't think they are game breaking in anyway

1) Weave, give it some defense debuff resistance, the amount is open to debate, I'm not the best with ingame dynamics so someone more cluey than myself could set the amount. This would at least give resistance sets (and other sets that dont have DDR) a chance to at least combat the lovely defense cascade we all know of. You could even set the DDR in weave to be AT specific, I don't know, up to the makers

As an example, I have 35% defense stored up by spending (probably over a billion) in IO's on my fire tank, All this completely dissapears against some enemies, making what I have spent and the time invested, null and void. Once on an ITF, even after swallowing a purple before combat, I was at something around -113% S/L defense before I face planted. NOTHING in the game would of saved me from that save phase shift! I don't think Phase shift is an option!

2) Up the agro cap. whether you're set for x8 or you have 8 people on your team, the current agro cap often doesn't cover the mobs you run up against, and then you might be ambushed, many times have i seen the last man standing, the lone tanker, already loaded up on agro, the rest of the enemies have nowhere else to turn but the squishes! I know my judgement powers can it 40, and i'm not saying the agro cap has to be 40, but do Up it!

Perhaps we could have a different dynamic for agro? I know that with IO's some tanks simply will not be defeated no matter how many enemies are agroed on to them, but someone just on SO's for example, might have trouble. Perhaps when slotting taunt, instead of increasing taunts duration, have it effect target count.

anyway, just my 2 cents


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangaroo120y View Post
2) Up the agro cap. whether you're set for x8 or you have 8 people on your team, the current agro cap often doesn't cover the mobs you run up against, and then you might be ambushed, many times have i seen the last man standing, the lone tanker, already loaded up on agro, the rest of the enemies have nowhere else to turn but the squishes! I know my judgement powers can it 40, and i'm not saying the agro cap has to be 40, but do Up it!
What if activating taunt applied a stacking modest duration (modified by taunt enhancements) self buff to a tanker that increased their aggro cap somewhat?

Slot up taunt and spam it for maximum effect. Use it once or twice per spawn and see little difference?

I still don't think this really addresses what I'd call the biggest problem with tanks... multi-tank stackability, but I dont think it'd cause much of a problem either.

With regards to your other point... talking about def resistance in pools is downright scary without doing a whole lot of math and set comparisons. You'd really start getting in the way of what some sets are supposed to do well. Maybe it could be done fairly, but you might find that you'd have to nerf some sets to keep things fair.


The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

 

Posted

I like the ideas.
My favorites are:

For all tanks:
1) Make Tankers able to resist “unresistable” damage gimmicks. <=== FAVORITE
----I HATE that unresistable gimmick. Making tanks an exception makes them unique especially on TF's with these.
2) Reexamine Tanker status protection. With the addition of more and more mobs that can cause status effects like confuse and fear, Armor sets have not been reexamined to handle them.
----Wont this mean all other armor sets (scrappers/brutes) get teh same extra protection too?
3) Boost the range and area of Taunt, aggro auras, and gauntlet.
---also, increase the aoe effect of taunt the power. 5 is too small. The problem with this game, sometimes, the FX flood my screen and I cant see or target properly. Having tools to compensate for the pretty lights helps.
4) Allow the Bruising effect to stack from multiple Tankers.
----Usually, more than 1 tanker doesnt add to a team. This will allow extra tankers to benefit a team. I've been on all control STF's, Id LOVE to be on an all tank TF (without requiring multiple pets or nukes)
5) Increase the Tanker AT Threat modifier to 5, increasing their ability to hold aggro by 20%.
6) Standardize the aggro auras on Tankers. WP and SR have significantly reduced aggro abilities.


I like these ideas, but I dont think tanks need them for normal SO play. Perhaps on incarnate trials, these would take effect?
7) Give Tankers the ability to exceed the current aggro cap, raising their cap to anywhere between 20 and 34. Maybe a scaling effect depending on team size or team health.
8) Increase the Gauntlet Aura effect so that Tankers can easily strip aggro from Scrappers and Brutes.

13) Give Tankers an inherent "Block" ability, that would allow a Tanker to get a temporary boost to DamRes and/or Defense at the expense of not being able to make attacks.

New ideas:
14) Temporary (or extended) try invulnerability if a tank dies, then rez's. Gives you time to armor up and use your many, many clicks and toggles. If its a tier 9 rez, greatly increase its invulnerability time.
------Personal peeve. Dying on an incarnate trial, trying to rez to help regain control and give other team members breathing room. Reality is, click rez, and before I can hit a breakfree/green/purple/blue/etc, I'm dead (again).
15) AOE nullification. Basically, if an enemy targets a tank (aggro control) with an aoe, the aoe ONLY affects the tank. Basically, teams will love tanks to keep those AOE's off of them, and multiple tanks are multiple targets for AOE's. Tank still takes normal damage.

summary:
To me, stacking bruising and/or AOE nullification will help for a team perspective (more than 1 tank is a waste ...).
I'm not big on damage increase, otherwise I'd roll the brute/scrapper, but immune to the unresistable bullocks ...
And for incarnate trials, a huge aggro number/area increase, and perhaps rez god power or non attacking defense increase.


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50 Other: WS, SS/dark/sc brute, BS/Regen/WM scrpr, fire/fire/force blaster, rad/kin corr, mind/rad ctrl, ill/storm cntrl

 

Posted

Gashes,

I added your two new ideas to the posts up front. Spirit, it looked like your suggestions seemed to already be in the front posts in some form or another, but please let me know if I misread, so that I can add them in.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Gashes,

I added your two new ideas to the posts up front. Spirit, it looked like your suggestions seemed to already be in the front posts in some form or another, but please let me know if I misread, so that I can add them in.
nope, all good. I'll shut up now.


The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!

 

Posted

This is just theorycraft, and wouldn't be a very effective trait on high-powered teams, but I was thinking about how everything in the game is built around damage mechanics and tried to think a little outside of the box. By late-game there are few things standing between Tankers and competent output, but it's always the long march to reaching that stage which seems to make things so troublesome.

What if a Tanker had a power called "Demoralizing Presence" that only affects Minions (and with a lower percentage on LTs) which has a chance to cause weaker enemies that are part of a group featuring a Boss mob to immediately die/surrender if they are under 30% HP if all Boss/AV/GM enemies from their group are defeated. This would allow groups that have few AoEs or specialize in Single-Target attacks, especially smaller and lower-level teams, to focus fire on the strongest enemy in groups featuring this grade of enemy type and not worry about having to sweep up everything before/after.

As an alternative mechanic, this could be a long-duration effect that has a chance to activate on nearby LTs and Minions every time a Boss in a group is killed, and while the duration is in effect it will cause any which are afflicted to immediately be defeated if they are at 30% or less HP. If there are multiple bosses, the effect can stack (raising it to 50%, 60%, 65%, and so forth at depreciating HP values respectively).

Also, for every Tanker on the team there is an extra chance for this to fire off every time a boss is beaten.

I think of it as the Superman effect. One can imagine the look on a criminal's face when he realizes his boss has been throttled and he now faces an overwhelming opponent that he simply cannot hope to harm or escape. It also has depreciated use in the end-game, where most players are equipped with enough AOEs to sweep up minions in an Alpha Strike and need not worry about fancy mechanics, thus not making Tankers overwhelmingly powerful in the end-game as a result of possessing this new mechanic.

Addendum:
Giving Tankers the ability to resist non-resistable damage would have been a VITAL capability during the pre-patched Keyes Reactor Trial, and is still undoubtedly useful, since tanking while simultaneously surviving a bombardment of heavy, unavoidable damage in an environment filled with enemies that have -Def and, more importantly -Regen, is a serious chore and does not feel challenging to the player so much as feeling cheap-shotted.


Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight View Post
Addendum:
Giving Tankers the ability to resist non-resistable damage would have been a VITAL capability during the pre-patched Keyes Reactor Trial, and is still undoubtedly useful, since tanking while simultaneously surviving a bombardment of heavy, unavoidable damage in an environment filled with enemies that have -Def and, more importantly -Regen, is a serious chore and does not feel challenging to the player so much as feeling cheap-shotted.
I think this is another problem separate from Tankers entirely. Read: the devs overusing and abusing unresisted damage. It's something that needs to be addressed in mission design and isn't a problem with Tankers.


As for your suggestion, I wouldn't sign off on it.

Firstly, I don't think Tankers should be any better at mowing down minions and LTs, or allowing them to be mowed down.

Second, it has been my experience that even on teams without a lot of AoE, the minions all die before the Bosses do anyways.

Third, as for your thematic justification, it runs opposite to how things are. The bad guys pretty much never just give up to Superman. Even if he just crashed through a wall and took out their boss in one punch. Time and time again they'll empty their guns into him harmlessly and then throw the gun at him.


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