City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Dark Amor....negative resistance

Aett_Thorn

By Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-12-06 05:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Yeah, and you don't have to worry about whether the devs will take these requests seriously or not. The part that is annoying is that this record has been skipping for months now and reason itself is incapable of changing that.
And if it bothers you so much, why are you reading - let alone posting in - the thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
While Dark is weak to knockback, it is also the only way to naturally get fear resistance outside of Willpower. (iirc) Rare, but when you need it it's REALLY nice. Remember /Elec's -KB is an auto that only works when "close" to the ground, and if you jump alot to reposition in combat, that can be annoying.
Shields has Fear protection as well. I actually find it quite strange that the two newest armor sets have complete mez protection, SD and WP have it all, even confuse.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
Shields has Fear protection as well. I actually find it quite strange that the two newest armor sets have complete mez protection, SD and WP have it all, even confuse.
Willpower's mez hole was originally conceived to be immobilization. However, that proved to be extremely problematic (for melee archetypes when many critters have perma-immobilize capability) and that specific hole was removed, and not replaced with anything else.

Shields probably has basically complete coverage because the designer of Shields didn't want to mess with that situation again.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
Shields has Fear protection as well. I actually find it quite strange that the two newest armor sets have complete mez protection, SD and WP have it all, even confuse.
Well, when they tried to leave some of the protections out of Willpower there was a huge uproar about it in beta. I don't even remember what they were, I think KB and immobilize?

I don't remember it being an issue with Shield because they already had tried going that route with Willpower and just preempted the complaining by having the mez click work for everything.

Edit: bah, scooped by Arcanaville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
Shields has Fear protection as well. I actually find it quite strange that the two newest armor sets have complete mez protection, SD and WP have it all, even confuse.
Doh!

Of course it does, I forgot about that. Haven't been on my /SD brute in some time. I was just reviewing resistance sets for comparison, and neglected to double-check mez resistances on defense sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Willpower's mez hole was originally conceived to be immobilization. However, that proved to be extremely problematic (for melee archetypes when many critters have perma-immobilize capability) and that specific hole was removed, and not replaced with anything else.

Shields probably has basically complete coverage because the designer of Shields didn't want to mess with that situation again.
I wasn't active during /WP beta, but that's interesting considering how easy it is to get immob resistance from power pools.

 

Posted

Let's take the thread as something as:

"If you would buff Dark Armour what would it be?"

Then people can give a answer and a reason.

Then ideas and reasons get consolidated into a unbiased list (Just so a Dev doesn't have to read all the arguments) and the Dev can be the judge of whats hot and whats not.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Ok, now that I'm not posting from my phone, I can give this post the attention it deserves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
You think a yellow is going to always solve the situation?
Depends on the situation. Maybe you'll need two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Really when I say kill your tohit I mean enough where it takes more than one yellow in a single group and then you could have all those other groups to get through.
Ok, so there's one mission where every enemy drops your tohit. Either back the difficulty down to something more "standard" or get through it with a team. Or you could pack a whole tray of yellows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
You might be alright being Dark/Fire with Build Up which I have already said would be okay but go make another type and come do this mission.
My Dark/Fire doesn't even have Build Up. And besides, build up is only as strong as a medium yellow in terms of tohit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
this is a potential midgame issue when most people are on SOs. Atleast I play each set to spot the differences.
Oh ok, so it's a midgame situation where you're on +0/x1. Use a freaking yellow inspiration, it's what I do. I've played against CoT ghosts and Sorcerers with Hurricane, I know it's not that big of a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
What I am going to do now is go in game and see how many yellows per group I need to pop to be as good as a Fire/Fire tank at the same mish.
What midgame mission is this that you have problems getting through on +0/x1?

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I wasn't active during /WP beta, but that's interesting considering how easy it is to get immob resistance from power pools.
The issue is that would then make combat jumping pretty much necessary for a Willpower anything. The problem with immobilization is that immobilize tends to have very long durations relative to recharge. Many critters, even minions, can perma-immobilize. If you don't have range, and you don't have immobilize protection, you can find yourself basically permanently locked into an inescapable situation. I posted an example in beta where I was basically stuck in a perma-immobilize with no possibility of breaking it short of using veteran ranged attacks which not all players would have.

The immobilize resistance granted in Weave would also help, but only to shorten the immobilize durations: they would still land and affect the target for a majority of the time, and Weave has high prerequisites.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Ok, now that I'm not posting from my phone, I can give this post the attention it deserves.

Depends on the situation. Maybe you'll need two.

Ok, so there's one mission where every enemy drops your tohit. Either back the difficulty down to something more "standard" or get through it with a team. Or you could pack a whole tray of yellows.

My Dark/Fire doesn't even have Build Up. And besides, build up is only as strong as a medium yellow in terms of tohit.

Oh ok, so it's a midgame situation where you're on +0/x1. Use a freaking yellow inspiration, it's what I do. I've played against CoT ghosts and Sorcerers with Hurricane, I know it's not that big of a deal.

What midgame mission is this that you have problems getting through on +0/x1?
What I do Dechs is test different factions at the same settings with different Tankers as I level up. I usually have 3 tanks leveling together and quite a few too.

I like to find them all at a reasonable similar level of survival whilst they are leveling up.

Some mobs are more dangerous than others but one way or another they're not too extreme.

The I get to a potential Dark/Set without build up by X number of levels
or a Dark/Set with a tohit buff power that requires actually hitting a mob.

These mobs I am testing against on a mission I do still have for anyone who'd dare, are reasonably fine with basically all my tankers but one, one that fulfils the criteria in the above paragraph.

I would have to use upto 9 normal yellows in a single group in order for Dark Regen with 2 Accuracies to hit a single mob. That's a lot of tohit debuffs.

All accuracy powers under this scenario do miss and when they miss they waste end which isn't too bad because death is near enough imminent anyway.

Maybe I am soo much better with every other tanker type despite a DA tank getting to -2.91% tohit wasting all accuracy based powers. A combination of powersets over a certain level range 20-25 versus a certain level of mobs of a type of faction has a gapingly lower level of survivability which sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

They could change the faction that would work or they could add tohit debuff resistance to Dark Armour.

Some sets proliferated into a new role sometimes still have a bugbear a longtime later. I could lower the level difference but it still doesn't change anything when it comes to what I see as not balanced.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
I would have to use upto 9 normal yellows in a single group in order for Dark Regen with 2 Accuracies to hit a single mob. That's a lot of tohit debuffs.
kite Spectral Demon Lords/Death Mages
back off if you're hit w/ a flashbang grenade

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
What I do Dechs is test different factions at the same settings with different Tankers as I level up. I usually have 3 tanks leveling together and quite a few too.

I like to find them all at a reasonable similar level of survival whilst they are leveling up.

Some mobs are more dangerous than others but one way or another they're not too extreme.

The I get to a potential Dark/Set without build up by X number of levels
or a Dark/Set with a tohit buff power that requires actually hitting a mob.

These mobs I am testing against on a mission I do still have for anyone who'd dare, are reasonably fine with basically all my tankers but one, one that fulfils the criteria in the above paragraph.

I would have to use upto 9 normal yellows in a single group in order for Dark Regen with 2 Accuracies to hit a single mob. That's a lot of tohit debuffs.

All accuracy powers under this scenario do miss and when they miss they waste end which isn't too bad because death is near enough imminent anyway.

Maybe I am soo much better with every other tanker type despite a DA tank getting to -2.91% tohit wasting all accuracy based powers. A combination of powersets over a certain level range 20-25 versus a certain level of mobs of a type of faction has a gapingly lower level of survivability which sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

They could change the faction that would work or they could add tohit debuff resistance to Dark Armour.

Some sets proliferated into a new role sometimes still have a bugbear a longtime later. I could lower the level difference but it still doesn't change anything when it comes to what I see as not balanced.
I don't have to be mysterious about it, I can just tell people what to test and let them do it themselves. Find the high level tip mission full of Nemesis LTs in the caves. And try to tank that on an SR tanker, when the critters end up buffed to the tohit cap, without killing one thing at a time to prevent vengeance from stacking. QED.

Or how about trying to tank any of the tip missions with the Praetorian DE, where critter base tohit is 64% rather than 50%. Unless you build for the incarnate floor, everything will be hitting you far more often *before* the LTs start dropping quartz enimators.

Its not like it takes special reserved missions to find the cracks in other powerset's armor. Anyone can replicate those tests without me having to hold a special mission for them.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
I've got a few Dark/Dark builds that I've sprinkled through the tank forums. Search for the name "Interruption" and posts by me.
Thank you, good sir!

I found two builds: Not terribly happy with how expensive they are, but ehn, that's a personal problem. I've thrown more than this at my Stone Tanker and I'm still not pleased with it either, so maybe I'll try one of these out.

If these are not the builds you meant, I'll look some more, although they are admittedly hellacious nice builds. I've never seen a toon with 123 end before.


Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1522;762;1524;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F534114C7E7F64E292DA5505A28CFBE69694B0B8DC6A5C6081A0C245|
|58C3BD354BC964AB9ADB72591A55FC10D0B4DDCBB70EB33FA45DC694C7CA0AE7C45|
|A8FF3BE7004D7A03FD9F3973E6CCEF9E3373D7EE2D799F5EBA7F4E68DE0BF54AAB5|
|5BE5631B70CCBB956A9D636041EEF8AD9362C6BA7D9AE354C171C1314515E326E1B|
|66CB282C55ACADF2796BBB61857866CDA81BEC57A67FC5DC342CC36C178E0C4FA9D|
|1A817D69B8671CBABCC55A3D2AC99D54135B858AB6EB67B4681E5666DA3B06C1A56|
|75B7BC5669816A771C3C59FC3F77E347B3713B4E118631238523028D4363D0B4143|
|24E7E390E754BD117A2F14F7BAD7A3ABA2809E5EBBB22D4DAFEABACEBA4BFDCBC0D|
|62B512F93C1CEBE1582FC7BE40AC4E4CBA6E332530673325A5F031932F4EFA1BB14|
|ECAEB747E742886E10FD069E87B1A8F7C66FD4A1AFC42FA0A6B5D9ABD5147BA4674|
|F56EC1615DCD8DF958C7A073528C87A0B352C4D14837B139DC39481173AC93AC2F9|
|17780F907C2C43919219D66FE69E6FF83D841AECB600D5C5129C2771CAA0EE13A8F|
|B7A14129FE22768862E550003C1929A241680E3A4A9C519B177963211A27C0EB271|
|6CD1F23BED83B877AD767C817E0DE079AF681C0DC5D681EEB2C1A275AD493445BA8|
|7D923BD005D405794739EF683FBD4BF280CEC06BE40D718D425253754BF693A67EC|
|31D90E20D622628464C9C81485DFC836F8AFB31C53D4A71CF52FBA4E9870EB53EFD|
|885403C70CD76F86CF559ACF5586CF5586CF958ED808F725C27DC9D88E2929B2DC9|
|72CF7E5002C7175623B7AFC13ED9D65A679669A3FA43E1D227696FB32CB0CF3CC90|
|67863C33E437481FDBEDA13562CE4FEF2FC19763BE9C248E0527340575D19D5CE05|
|A3FC1A12970FD0A7BC4F1161C8B9C733147FBE01A1CDD51FCE111AB3D9E923CBE9B|
|42539E7D0F3C9C5DCB5357BF75FB7C44FCFDC4A769D7E9AB50BCACA9CEFC3899736|
|80FA862C53DD628E5CCC8E3AF4F27DBC3B5D8E329F6784EF5784EF778DCC3F89E90|
|A753F2D8AC64DFE8B22B5DF6CD2EFB6C005786EDFF3476EA46|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1520;749;1498;HEX;|
|78DA65544D6F1251147D33F3680BA52D1428B4B47C0C6D295010D4B853626C35352|
|5416BDC1932B64F8AA50319305A77FE05375D68E2DE855B3FA37FC43F60B4EA4AAB|
|B18E77DEBDB6243301CE9D33F7DE77DEB98FA93D58F1BFB8F2A8CA14FFA5B6D1EB3|
|56E18E68EB03C35A3D9DA6470F9D7CCBEB0AC7BDD7EAB630E03318D198D15714798|
|3D515A31AC9DC6456BB76345E9494DB405F1320CAE99DBC21266BFF43FF0D53B9D7|
|669A32BC4965F86EBC2E8B6CCE698BCB9DC6A6EF75D77A1D56E6BB3B46A0AABB9D7|
|A8193D50B517033D79F8BEF2C28FE2C8B53D2C01C11C676A1250074C036639E33AF|
|23C06E8E56C288AF73F9C5A79D99CD599E486AE31593B729D700371790BF1A79796|
|831AA58E9C8F6A7C54E3A79A9C5303EBBF861A0D356A9AA33103398EC679CEC675D|
|43A7E5A937808B91EECEFF11CA85253E00BE127C4C936F69DDC450C7710DF42EDB0|
|C265EDF0A42673C341C4A90021F58851EF19EAADC380BDA851F116002A9043F806F|
|A8E92FED1047A3A93449C258F6775C45F903B86FAB5B116F44E7196B8ABCABD25DA|
|74BF0B18E6EC37E44E909713E4658ABC4C919729F2321DD1A4960CE80C92CE601AF|
|5A53FAA72AE2FA15F88CE4288F697A6FD66689F99AA2675662E20CE9F479C82BE11|
|EA1B89E05EE68FF04CBC83BE517CA64639040BF06C0471F110E81067EF21671A73D|
|8F43900AEB13FC0C5E5346D1EFF8CEB2F928E45D2977DA2CAFAEC53440574CCA127|
|6CCE868B69C024C9FD24B99F7388386779723F4FEE1FC18ABA3C9F36D769E7595A2|
|9472BE71FD289BE8FF8176A16680A0B3485659A4291A650A4291437119F81694BA4|
|722988BBE5A0B3403A0B113CD5A7028421C230E27338222572ABB48FA7E303E8285|
|3CF7201D799E5C7FF50F8386EACBB983A3FFE47324532073E60A8BB52C4197E1DE4|
|C651F1B7134E516EE23BA172559173F87EF24C551EABD2DDCA3E3A5849E1B9CBF1E|
|3778F9D77E92ABB988A8B39E362CEBA186F00DE1EC8D8759FA315E35B03B13110DF|
|1E88AB21104AF13F19C6F085|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Thank you, good sir!

I found two builds: Not terribly happy with how expensive they are, but ehn, that's a personal problem. I've thrown more than this at my Stone Tanker and I'm still not pleased with it either, so maybe I'll try one of these out.

If these are not the builds you meant, I'll look some more, although they are admittedly hellacious nice builds. I've never seen a toon with 123 end before.
Not sure if you noticed, but I did offer the build on my blog. It's just a Dark/Fire, but it's a template to start with for sure. Let me get you a link. At the time it was built on 300 million.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Not sure if you noticed, but I did offer the build on my blog. It's just a Dark/Fire, but it's a template to start with for sure. Let me get you a link. At the time it was built on 300 million.
Yeah, I've looked at it before. But /fire has two pbaoe's to leverage the "3 erad/3 cleave trick" for E/N. Dark don't.

So I was hoping for a sample build for how peoples got the E/N up.

Rangle's nastier build caps S/L/E/N and also has 123 end, on a darkity dark. This comforts me. I'm not super excited at how many 5-slotted attacks it has, but that's the problem that enhancement boosters were created to solve.

Although any build that needs to build to 120+ end to be viable makes me shake my head at what the Dev's were thinkin'......

Hrrrrm. Ok, I have fuel for this project, methinks, we'll see where it goes.

 

Posted

Shadow Maul, Dark Consumption, Soul Drain. 3 PBAoE's.

I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
The issue is that would then make combat jumping pretty much necessary for a Willpower anything. The problem with immobilization is that immobilize tends to have very long durations relative to recharge. Many critters, even minions, can perma-immobilize.
Heh, it's funny how persective can mess us up. I essentially always take CJ (I can't stand jumping without, and rarely play hover toons), and thus never considered the idea that a melee toon wouldn't have/or be getting it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
Thank you, good sir!

I found two builds: Not terribly happy with how expensive they are, but ehn, that's a personal problem. I've thrown more than this at my Stone Tanker and I'm still not pleased with it either, so maybe I'll try one of these out.

If these are not the builds you meant, I'll look some more, although they are admittedly hellacious nice builds. I've never seen a toon with 123 end before.
I haven't finished the first build, but it's already a very sturdy tank. I do have some issues with it on the BAF where the towers can hurt. I haven't taken her on any of the newer trials (Keyes, UGT, MoM or TPN) yet. Alt-itis has me distracted.

I haven't decided if I'm going to try the second build yet so I can't tell you how it plays. The second build doesn't have 123 end, but it's still nearly 120. I prefer the attack slotting on the second build to the first, so I'm sure I'll break down at some point and respec into the second build.

I did want to add that the Fury of the Gladiator's -res proc could be just as easily replaced by the dmg/end/recharge for a whole lot less inf.

Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I don't have to be mysterious about it, I can just tell people what to test and let them do it themselves. Find the high level tip mission full of Nemesis LTs in the caves. And try to tank that on an SR tanker, when the critters end up buffed to the tohit cap, without killing one thing at a time to prevent vengeance from stacking. QED.

Or how about trying to tank any of the tip missions with the Praetorian DE, where critter base tohit is 64% rather than 50%. Unless you build for the incarnate floor, everything will be hitting you far more often *before* the LTs start dropping quartz enimators.

Its not like it takes special reserved missions to find the cracks in other powerset's armor. Anyone can replicate those tests without me having to hold a special mission for them.
I reserved a mission so that if anyone wishes to try it they can which is quicker for them than finding it, I have knocked up an AE mish to try also which might come close.

It's about a Tanker primary and how it compares to other Tanker primaries and this is about Tankers having most its abilities wiped from one debuff. Not every Tanker gets build up and when so much is need of an accuracy check there is a clear disadvantage. Using 9 yellows to Dark Regen in a single group is a tall order.

You can come up with another faction for me to compare, I could just tank that other faction and say, that was alright. I haven't been mysterious about the factions and results of the tohit debuffs from them as the information is already in this thread.

When it comes to SR anything with KB/KD powers in their secondary has an advantage. I tank every AV going with SR scrappers as it is, what it is I am currently doing is leveling a SR Tanker to see if it feels balanced enough.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
The issue is that would then make combat jumping pretty much necessary for a Willpower anything.
At least it wouldn't have been as bad as needing Acrobatics on a Fiery Aura or Dark Armor before IOs existed. Combat Jumping is available at level 4 now, level 6 before that, and it's available as the first pick in the pool. Acrobatics required 2 power picks and wasn't available until level 20.

For a scrapper, stalker or brute Combat Jumping is available before you get your mez protection toggle.

I would not have seen Combat Jumping being required as being a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
I reserved a mission so that if anyone wishes to try it they can which is quicker for them than finding it, I have knocked up an AE mish to try also which might come close.

It's about a Tanker primary and how it compares to other Tanker primaries and this is about Tankers having most its abilities wiped from one debuff. Not every Tanker gets build up and when so much is need of an accuracy check there is a clear disadvantage. Using 9 yellows to Dark Regen in a single group is a tall order.

You can come up with another faction for me to compare, I could just tank that other faction and say, that was alright. I haven't been mysterious about the factions and results of the tohit debuffs from them as the information is already in this thread.

When it comes to SR anything with KB/KD powers in their secondary has an advantage. I tank every AV going with SR scrappers as it is, what it is I am currently doing is leveling a SR Tanker to see if it feels balanced enough.
That's stating the obvious - some armor has this or that weakness.

In more than one occasion, my dm/da scrapper had to take the lead because the psi mobs were eating the Ice tanker alive, same for an Invul on another arc, both in PI. They were relegated to 'kill minions stunned with OG' while I was pounding the bosses since I was DM and thus Single-target focused.

Same way my db/elec scrapper had to 'tank' the whole Synapse TF because she had capped (or near, I don't remember) energy res on DOs and the DA tank also on DOs suffered with all the clockwork.

Or how /SRs are scared of the... well that Rularuu place I forgot the name while my mind/emp controller soloed a ton of missions on Invincible because nobody wanted to go there with me

 

Posted

Just fyi I'm not aruging about DA needing buffs, cos I don't think it needs any

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
In more than one occasion, my dm/da scrapper had to take the lead because the psi mobs were eating the Ice tanker alive, same for an Invul on another arc, both in PI. They were relegated to 'kill minions stunned with OG' while I was pounding the bosses since I was DM and thus Single-target focused.

Same way my db/elec scrapper had to 'tank' the whole Synapse TF because she had capped (or near, I don't remember) energy res on DOs and the DA tank also on DOs suffered with all the clockwork.

Or how /SRs are scared of the... well that Rularuu place I forgot the name while my mind/emp controller soloed a ton of missions on Invincible because nobody wanted to go there with me
I know what you're saying, but lets take each case into account. Top paragraph, late game. I expect that nearer and nearer late game Factions will stand out as more as a struggle to some tankers than others by a certain amount. As people level I expect the game to get harder and harder. In the low levels I do not expect to see an extreme survival disparity between tankers on any faction, in the high levels I do but despite doing so I expect there to be options available to overcome these odds anyway. I look at Psi as an Ice tank and I have to put out as much active defense where necessary, at low levels you are limited to a number of power choices and options so at low levels I expect to tank low level content with any tanker.

I am talking midlevels 20-25 where there is not a lot of options because you haven't been able to choose from a great deal of powers. I don't believe that at 20 a Dark Tanker should effectively have to struggle even more than a Shield Tanker, Shield tankers don't have to really find that one faction till say 30 when it meets Devouring Earth, and even then the powers to solve the problem are available. A lvl20 Dark Tanker doesn't necessarily have that power that they could of picked which would solve the problem available.

The DA tank that struggled with Synapse, I'd say thats player inexperience/fault or perhaps they just weren't getting the dynamics from the team.

The SR thing with Ruluruu is again late game. I farm the fruits with my SR, she don't effectively accept anything less than +2 at 50 but then I don't as any Tanker from lvl 10.

So in summary what I am saying that over the 50 levels, the serious problems for different types of Tankers should appear at roughly the same time when there are powers that Tankers could take to actually overcome the problem for themselves. Someone told me when I first come across Sappers that I had to get an SR for them, I was bugger that and did Sappers for myself. Atleast by the time my Invuln/SS got to Malta I had Knockout Blow available. By the time Darks could be swamped in serious tohit debuffs they may not have a build up on offer let alone a Soul Drain which I think is 26, and with Soul Drain if you completely miss with it, its of no help whatsoever.

Edit: If you look at Foc Acc in Tanker epics, it offers 85% res to tohit debuffs. Tankers can't touch it until the 40s. It's desire-able to a Dark Tank in the 20s more than it is for any type of Tanker because no other Tanker relies on tohit as much. That's what I think Dark Tankers should have, that tohit debuff resistance, and Foc Acc being another toggle is not something Dark Armour really could do with. In taking that to shore up accuracy, itll be even more so like a Black Cloud of death because the toggles won't allow too much for end recovery.

He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
So in summary what I am saying that over the 50 levels, the serious problems for different types of Tankers should appear at roughly the same time when there are powers that Tankers could take to actually overcome the problem for themselves.
Why?

I see no reason that different tanks cannot experience different problems at different parts of the leveling process. None of these problems are crippling solo, and all of them can be solved by team support.

You have yet to define a problem, only a dislike.

Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
At least it wouldn't have been as bad as needing Acrobatics on a Fiery Aura or Dark Armor before IOs existed. Combat Jumping is available at level 4 now, level 6 before that, and it's available as the first pick in the pool. Acrobatics required 2 power picks and wasn't available until level 20.

For a scrapper, stalker or brute Combat Jumping is available before you get your mez protection toggle.

I would not have seen Combat Jumping being required as being a big deal.
Its not remotely the same thing. There's no solo mission at standard difficulty that can kill you with knockback. There are lots that can kill you with immobilize, and trap a player permanently with no way to escape. Running a melee character without knockback protection is a risk. Running without immobilize is suicide. You're guarateed to die eventually, and it will be a very frustrating death: like being perma-held for ten minutes while something slowly kills you. No power pool is that kind of mandatory.

It wasn't just that you could - would - die. It was the very peculiar way you could die: watching a single minion take longer to kill you than it would take to log out, log back in, and then restart the mission and get back to that point.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)