Dark Amor....negative resistance
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-12-06 05:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Yes. Values would be scaled down for Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers, respectively.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
70% s/l is that on tank only?
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It's in the low 50s (according to mids 52.8 for my IO'd build) for a Brute with Tough. I would assume the numbers would be similar for a Scrapper and Stalker.
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Of course not. Dark Armor Sucks. Even on a Brute.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Is DA any good?
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Especially on a Brute. Death Shroud with Fury is a terrible combination. That why I built my StJ/DA Brute, because I want my character to suck.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Of course not. Dark Armor Sucks. Even on a Brute.
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Incidentally. If you take Cardiac for your alpha slot (which is almost mandatory on a DA toon) you can get S/L Resist to over 75% on a Tank and over 57% on a Brute/Scrapper/Stalker with Tough and a fully IO'd build.
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Incedentally, I have two DA incarnates. Neither use cardiac or ageless.
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Originally Posted by BigBlackAfrica
Incidentally. If you take Cardiac for your alpha slot (which s almost mandatory on a DA toon) you tcan get S/L Resist to over 75% on a Tank and over 57% on a Brute/Scrapper/Stalker with Tough and a fully IO'd build.
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While I can see the Resistance being useful - and I do have Cardiac on one of my DA tankers for this reason - it's certainly not "almost mandatory" for endurance reasons. I'm always amazed how people overstate the endurance demands of DA. When you take CoF out of the equation, DA is actually much easier on endurance than most other Tanker primaries in terms of toggles. The other big endurance hog, of course, is Dark Regeneration, but some intelligent slotting and a Theft of Essence proc largely obviate that.
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I stand corrected.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Incedentally, I have two DA incarnates. Neither use cardiac or ageless.
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EDIT: Twice.
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Only reason I went with Cardiac on my Dark/Dark tank was for the +resistance.
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Originally Posted by Justaris
While I can see the Resistance being useful - and I do have Cardiac on one of my DA tankers for this reason - it's certainly not "almost mandatory" for endurance reasons. I'm always amazed how people overstate the endurance demands of DA. When you take CoF out of the equation, DA is actually much easier on endurance than most other Tanker primaries in terms of toggles. The other big endurance hog, of course, is Dark Regeneration, but some intelligent slotting and a Theft of Essence proc largely obviate that.
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I use Tier 4 Vigor Radial for my stone/dark.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Incedentally, I have two DA incarnates. Neither use cardiac or ageless.
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End cost is a big issue and it fixes that, plus adds accuracy for cloak of fear, plus adds fear, plus adds to health and dark regen and physical perfection.
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Likewise on my Dark/MA, but he has since switched to Resilient.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Only reason I went with Cardiac on my Dark/Dark tank was for the +resistance.
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Sorry not good enough, dark has poor energy resistance, no knockback protection and plays like a person with asthma and emphysema.
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Originally Posted by Fomsie
Because all of those sets have resistance holes in them and dark armor has none. It still gives good negative resistances, but it gives good resists to everything.
It is more of a utility set I suppose. *shrug* Who knows? |
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It should not take IOs or incarnate abilities to mitigate the endurance issue. Secondly try playing the set without those mez toggles and see how fast you die or run out of end from spamming DR. In either case the end drain needs to be brought down to sane levels.
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Originally Posted by Justaris
Actually that last bit isn't really true. The toggles in Dark Armor are actually very easy on the endurance, costing less than most Tanker toggles, and it's very easy to run them without any issue. The real endurance hogs in the set are Cloak of Fear and Dark Regeneration, though the latter can be almost entirely mitigated by a Theft of Essence IO proc. As with most endurance issues, the problem usually lies with poorly slotted attacks.
The relatively low energy resistance and the lack of debuff resistance (especially to recharge and tohit debuffs) are significant issues for the set. Fortunately, they're both easily overcome in a variety of ways. The obvious way to overcome the low energy resistance is to build in Defense with IOs (either S/L/E/N or posiitional) and doing so takes Dark Armor from being good to being ridiculously good. As for the lack of debuff resistance, you can utilize +acc powers and inspirations to keep up your tohit and Hasten (and IOs) to aid your recharge. An Ageless Radial Epiphany destiny incarnate power helps quite a bit here too. |
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You'd make my ideal victim muahaha. |
Originally Posted by Justaris
As for the lack of debuff resistance, you can utilize +acc powers and inspirations to keep up your tohit and Hasten (and IOs) to aid your recharge. An Ageless Radial Epiphany destiny incarnate power helps quite a bit here too.
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Ok so let me see, overcoming heavy tohit debuffs is just a simple case of using +acc powers or inspirations.
Inspirations are great if you got them.
+Acc powers sometimes rely on tohit. So you need to hit first.
Also some +Acc powers can come late. So you can do content thats heavy in tohit debuffs and then level up and get that power to do something about it.
If your DA which is what we are discussing here 4/9 DA powers rely on tohit then depending on your Attack powerset upto 9/9 powers rely on tohit. Tohit debuffs can cause a substantial blow if you have too much of it. Avoiding too much of it is not always possible.
After Soul Draining giving my Dark Tank a +30%ish boost in tohit which I did well to get I have watched my tohit go down to about 34.8%. With 2 Accs in DR I am missing targets, all this while I am -rechgd 42%.
I don't believe in a set waiting to get an incarnate power to be somewhere alright to play and easily handling tohit debuffs.
You can be a victim. I have a mission people can try if they got a DA with a attack set that relies on tohit to gain tohit.
Missing can hurt because when you Dark Regen there is nothing, everytime you miss you're using endurance that does nothing or not as much as you can hope. Couple with -Regen and things are just waiting to happen. If you've got Build Up then yep that really can help in dire situations but if its a +acc power relying on tohit then perhaps not.
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It doesn't. It's takes slotting for ENDRED, but most people don't like to slot for ENDRED as much as enhance the other benefits, and like others have said the end drain from toggles really isn't worse than other powersets if you don't rely on CoF.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
It should not take IOs or incarnate abilities to mitigate the endurance issue. Secondly try playing the set without those mez toggles and see how fast you die or run out of end from spamming DR. In either case the end drain needs to be brought down to sane levels.
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Even fully IOd out with set bonuses for +end and recovery it still has end problems. Maybe you and I have 2 different views on what is alot of endurance and whats not. There is no way you can tell me that this set is more end friendly than say SR or Shields. Its got issues people need to stop down playing this.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It doesn't. It's takes slotting for ENDRED, but most people don't like to slot for ENDRED as much as enhance the other benefits, and like others have said the end drain from toggles really isn't worse than other powersets if you don't rely on CoF.
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Please stop attributing your failures to the set.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Even fully IOd out with set bonuses for +end and recovery it still has end problems. Maybe you and I have 2 different views on what is alot of endurance and whats not. There is no way you can tell me that this set is more end friendly than say SR or Shields. Its got issues people need to stop down playing this.
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He's probably looking at it as a whole compared to other sets when only using SOs, like he should be, instead of what you typically do for videos.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Please stop attributing your failures to the set.
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My video has nothing to do with his failure to play the set.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
He's probably looking at it as a whole compared to other sets when only using SOs, like he should be, instead of what you typically do for videos.
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The set is fully capable on SOs. My video characters were not made with IOs from the start.
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Oh, I didn't realize he failed to actually play a set, as in, he has never created one. I thought you were saying that he fails due to his skills and/or build ability.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
My video has nothing to do with his failure to play the set.
The set is fully capable on SOs. My video characters were not made with IOs from the start. |
Yeah, all power sets are fully capable using SOs. That was never the argument - it's always been about WHAT is capable on SOs compared to other sets.
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Well show a build that you slotted up using SOs. I'm curious to see it.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Even fully IOd out with set bonuses for +end and recovery it still has end problems. Maybe you and I have 2 different views on what is alot of endurance and whats not. There is no way you can tell me that this set is more end friendly than say SR or Shields. Its got issues people need to stop down playing this.
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I have done dark armor several times over the course of CoH, the one build that I felt comfortable with was the stalker build which was dm/da but it has IOs and accolades. Basically every possible way of getting more endurance recovery and reduction I could find. On the characters where I could not level to 50 were brutes and scrappers. Dealing with the end drain was just not worth it. The reason it worked for a stalker is because there are 2 less toggles to deal with that use end. I would post those builds but I do not have mids installed on a work computer. It just amazes me how you guys think having to play a powerset with asthma inhaler is just fine when its not. This is the only powerset in the game thats an end hog on this level. I cant think of anything else that uses this close to the amount of end and recovery management.
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Again, I have required no such inhaler while leveling three ATs of DA characters on SOs. I'm working on aTW/DA scrapper in addition to those. I'm not sure why you have problems, but I am sure that if you post a build, w can help.
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Seriously this is not a build issue. I been here since day 1 and I know about end reduction enhancements. If I am using mostly sets with bonuses for recovery and good end reduction as well as accolades for more end. So there is absolutely nothing you can tell me build wise that will make this playable for me on a non-stalker.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Again, I have required no such inhaler while leveling three ATs of DA characters on SOs. I'm working on aTW/DA scrapper in addition to those. I'm not sure why you have problems, but I am sure that if you post a build, w can help.
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Since we're quibbling in the first place, there are exactly 0 attack powersets available to a Dark Armor character where 9 out of 9 powers rely on a tohit check.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
If your DA which is what we are discussing here 4/9 DA powers rely on tohit then depending on your Attack powerset upto 9/9 powers rely on tohit.
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So, you're only being attacked by Lieuts and up, to which you'll have 45% Defense to most of their attacks. If they do hit you, you've got 50-70% Resistance to whatever they throw at you. If your health gets low enough, you hit one power, and you're back to full.
And even if after all of that, you die, you can get back up immediately, stunning everything around you, and go again.