Dark Amor....negative resistance


Aett_Thorn

 

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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Boo hoo. Everyone suffers from debuffs like that equally. Pop a yellow.
Certainly everyone suffers from that, but I don't know about equally. My SS/ brute can withstand a much larger degree of tohit debuffs than most characters, just because he has huge tohit from double Rage. On the other end of the spectrum, my new TW scrapper suffers disproportionately more from tohit debuffs, because not only do they prevent my attacks from hitting, they also prevent me from gaining Momentum, so I can't even do a very good job of spamming attacks hoping for one to get through.

However, I'm not sure Dark Armor having a weakness to -tohit is actually a problem. It doesn't have the severe weakness to psi and toxic that most sets have, after all. Also, Body Mastery, which has always been a popular epic choice for any armor set, and a favorite for the sets that have (or are perceived as having) endurance problems, also contains Focused Accuracy, which grants high tohit debuff resistance. Toggle that on when enemies try to debuff you, and laugh at them.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
In order: Standard difficulty is +0/x1. Three minions. It's been the standard that the game was designed around. Keep in mind that 33 endurance is without enhancements. Still, I would gladly pay a third of one bar to fill the other.
You prob typed this before I edited my post. but the other prob is your Dark Regen can't prevent alpha because it doesn heal out of combat. So unless you end the fight with close to full hp you run the risk of getting insta gibbed in the next big spawn


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
In order: Standard difficulty is +0/x1. Three minions. It's been the standard that the game was designed around.
This is just specualtion. They easily could have balanced each difficulty individuality. Espsically on the high/low end of the scale as you run the risk of making it too diffcult and unplayable if you just let the game auto adjust.


 

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Originally Posted by Dz131 View Post
You prob typed this before I edited my post. but the other prob is your Dark Regen can't prevent alpha because it doesn heal out of combat. So unless you end the fight with close to full hp you run the risk of getting insta gibbed in the next big spawn
Except that DA comes with a stealth power.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dz131 View Post
This is just specualtion. They easily could have balanced each difficulty individuality. Espsically on the high/low end of the scale as you run the risk of making it too diffcult and unplayable if you just let the game auto adjust.
It's not speculation. We have dev responses around this very topic.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Except that DA comes with a stealth power.
So far you mentioned +acc, stealth and having at least 3 enemies to fully leverage Dark Regen. Not the mention the end red you have to slot. That doesn't make it sound any better than a streaght up heal you use anytime you want with basically no requirments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
It's not speculation. We have dev responses around this very topic.
ok


 

Posted

Really? With decent slotting you get a full bar heal every 20 seconds. When you add IOs, it can be as often as every 10 seconds or less, and even give you more endurance than it costs. Simply said, it's the best heal in the game. The end cost for such a power is easily justified.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

I had problems early on with my DA/KM tank, but you work around it. Even without any IOs she was playable, though the KB hole was annoying as hell when I got to the late 20s. She's now 50 (my first 50 tank) and one of my favorite characters to play at any exemplar level ( a few IOs used to fix some of the holes but still not fully IOed or anywhere near cap levels, just the first Cardiac Alpha).

Yes you have to 6 slot DR on SOs because you want good Acc, Endred and a little recharge (because it is THAT good), but the power is worth 6 slots since it can take you from 1 HP to full. DA is a great set, though I don't think it would overpower it to make it cap Negative res. It's layered mitigation which after playing Ice Armor is a big bonus. When those mitigation levels are surpassed you have 2 powers that can bring you back from the brink, one while you're standing and one while you're not. You get a stealth power as a bonus. My only complaint is with Cloak of Fear but mostly because I can't afford to slot it to make it work in my current build even though I want it so badly. You pay for the 3 taunt auras and layered mitigation by it being heavy on your blue bar. But hell, so is Invulnerability and Ice Armor, but people don't whine about them. If you lowered the End cost on DR it would greatly improve the power to the point where it would be overpowered. Seriously for 22 end the power would be rediculously good. DR is very balanced for what it does for the survival of Dark Armor. That's one of the powers I would not suggest you touch.


 

Posted

I've had /x0 (x1) spawns that had single Lts or 1 minion + 1 Lt. You can't unilaterally say that Dark Regeneration is a better heal per endurance spent than other heals "because there will be 3 things to hit". It may be that way when you're surrounded and you can adjust difficulty to address this, but I can assure you that there are times in the game when you're fighting single targets and need a heal.


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Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
I've had /x0 (x1) spawns that had single Lts or 1 minion + 1 Lt. You can't unilaterally say that Dark Regeneration is a better heal per endurance spent than other heals "because there will be 3 things to hit". It may be that way when you're surrounded and you can adjust difficulty to address this, but I can assure you that there are times in the game when you're fighting single targets and need a heal.
I've seen it too, and when it's a problem, I kite two groups together.

The player has the power to create optimal conditions.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Really? With decent slotting you get a full bar heal every 20 seconds. When you add IOs, it can be as often as every 10 seconds or less, and even give you more endurance than it costs. Simply said, it's the best heal in the game. The end cost for such a power is easily justified.
Not even close. Just that fact that "it can fail" is built into the power makes it not the best.

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and even give you more endurance than it costs.
uh no. stop talking like your 20% to gain end is guarrenteed.

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With decent slotting you get a full bar heal every 20 seconds.
You can argue that about basically any heal like as DP. The fact is most of the time healing 100% of your HP is 50% overkill


 

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Originally Posted by Dz131 View Post
uh no. stop talking like your 20% to gain end is guarrenteed.
He didn't, you clipped off the first half of the same sentence which says differently from what you're saying he's implying.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dz131 View Post
Not even close. Just that fact that "it can fail" is built into the power makes it not the best.



uh no. stop talking like your 20% to gain end is guarrenteed.



You can argue that about basically any heal like as DP. The fact is most of the time healing 100% of your HP is 50% overkill
Again, in order:

I can't argue your opinion, but in every quantifiable way, DR performs better than any other self heal.

My 20% to gain endurance is per target. With 10 enemies, DR gives back more end than it costs on average.

DP will never be a full bar heal, nor can it be ready every 10 seconds.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

It's always fun watching Dech's tilt at his favorite windmill.


Now, that said:

I have a 50 Darkity/Dark tank that stinks on ice. (I know Dech's, it's only because I suck as a player.)

However, I love this guys costume and concept, so against my better judgement, I got a theft of essence proc. Now, all I need is the rest of a build.

Anybody have a reasonable dark/dark tanker build laying around? I'd be highly appreciative.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Again, in order:

I can't argue your opinion, but in every quantifiable way, DR performs better than any other self heal.
that's wrong and you just told me a few posts about it takes 3 enemies at least for that to be true. So right there your every quantifiable way statment is false.

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My 20% to gain endurance is per target. With 10 enemies, DR gives back more end than it costs on average.
Once again you bring up these senarios that obviously give DR the edge. 10 eneimes? really?

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You can argue that about basically any heal like as DP. The fact is most of the time healing 100% of your HP is 50% overkill
I kinda phrase that wrong. I meant to say that just because it can heal for 100% doesn't mean it will. Unless you're alway sitting at 1% hp, you never gonna recieve the whole benefit of your huge heal.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Boo hoo. Everyone suffers from debuffs like that equally. Pop a yellow.
Woohoo

You think a yellow is going to always solve the situation? Really when I say kill your tohit I mean enough where it takes more than one yellow in a single group and then you could have all those other groups to get through. You might be alright being Dark/Fire with Build Up which I have already said would be okay but go make another type and come do this mission.

It's not a boohoo thing. This like anything always has a solution, that's not a problem. My deal simply with balance. This is not an endgame balance issue once you've got a reasonably IO setted character this is a potential midgame issue when most people are on SOs. Atleast I play each set to spot the differences.

What I am going to do now is go in game and see how many yellows per group I need to pop to be as good as a Fire/Fire tank at the same mish.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Dz, it takes three enemies to heal to full with no slotting at all. It's base heal is still better than everything else, especially in terms of heal/second.

And I say ten enemies because my builds fight nothing less than x8.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

I think that any heal that has requirements and can fail is never going to be as good a heal that's basically a regenerating free huge green insp. But that's my opinion.

And how much you fight personally is irrelevant to how the skill performs.


 

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Do you think that an attack that did scale five damage in a thirty foot radius for thirty three endurance and recharged in ten seconds would be crap if it had a one percent chance to deal no damage at all? Because that's essentially what you're arguing here, Dz131.


 

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Do you think that an attack that did scale five damage in a thirty foot radius for thirty three endurance and recharged in ten seconds would be crap if it had a one percent chance to deal no damage at all? Because that's essentially what you're arguing here, Dz131.
That's no what I'm arguing here, but nice false analogy. To be comparble to DR your attack would scale damage but only hit one target with a max capped damage it can do(your max hp). Which in 99% of the time would be over kill. It would have at least 5% chance on each target ti scaled from when not factoring acc, -acc and defence, and would cost 30 end.

And only usable when the enemy your're fighing is not at full HP


 

Posted

You're saying that any heal that can fail is bad. I just gave you an example of an overpowered attack that can fail in a way that other attacks cannot. Is it bad? Clearly it must be, for you wouldn't want to talk past yourself now would you?


 

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
You're saying that any heal that can fail is bad. I just gave you an example of an overpowered attack that can fail in a way that other attacks cannot. Is it bad? Clearly it must be, for you wouldn't want to talk past yourself now would you?
First off you're comparing an attack to a heal, right there makes me wonder if you know what you're talking about. The norm of an attack is that it can fail, the norm of a heal is that it's auto hit.

Ever AT gets multiple attacks that chain one after another with alot less recharge, not ever AT gets even 1 heal, let along multiple heals.

Failing an attacks does not usually mean life or death, failing heals is alot bigger issue because obv you're using it because you need it at the time.


 

Posted

"I think that any heal that has requirements and can fail is never going to be as good a heal that's basically a regenerating free huge green insp. But that's my opinion."

Being the only self heal that can fail, in your words, you therefore think that dark regen is the worst self heal in the game. You literally said this on this very page. You think green inspirations are better than dark regeneration. Here's a funny thought, what if a dark armor character were to carry a green inspiration for the vanishingly rare case where dark regen managed not to hit any targets? Or is that not allowed?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
You're saying that any heal that can fail is bad. I just gave you an example of an overpowered attack that can fail in a way that other attacks cannot. Is it bad? Clearly it must be, for you wouldn't want to talk past yourself now would you?
No, he's saying that your example doesn't fit because your numbers are completely out of whack with other attacks relative to Dark Regeneration's value compared to other heals.

But if you really want to be obnoxious about it, there is an attack that has a small chance of doing no damage in an AoE even if it hits. Hail of Bullets has a small chance of doing no damage, even if the tohit check succeeds. Going with tohit-check failures (which is what you're talking about for Dark Regeneration), every attack that isn't autohit fits the bill. But those are powers that affect other things and so are balanced differently.

Dark Regeneration isn't even the best heal with a tohit check in the game - that's debatable between Transfusion and Twilight's Grasp (specifically, Defender Transfusion or Corruptor/Defender Twilight's Grasp since they heal for the same amount) with most that I've heard from leaning to TG since you don't have to stand next to the mob to get the heal, and they both hit a larger number of players at a much lower endurance cost and faster recharge to heal for significantly more than just one person's health bar.


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