Quote:
actually steampunk bots are likely to be an easier sell and far more likely to be used. plenty of steampunk MM's running around forced to use high-tech bots.|
Originally Posted by Ideon
Robots: In addition to 'fembots', alternate Steampunk robots would be nice...
|
you could even base the styling on the different versions of the clockwork running around.
Quote:
| Zombies: Cybernetic zombies, so it's not just "magic zombies" as alternate option. |
Quote:
Demons: Unfortunately, if you think female demons, you will almost always think of the Succubi which is ingame, haha. So maybe reskin them as reptilian demons or something as an alternate choice, or even alien demons. 
|
i'm a guy, but i think the lack of variety is appaling. we can customize our costumes, our bodies. we can even customize how our powers look. but we can't pick between a set of models for our minions?
in terms of server use, one would expect that more variety would actually make things easier. the way things are right now, all bot MM's use the exact same 3 models when their minions are out. that means thousands of connections all trying to access the same couple of files at the same time. more options means fewer accesses of the same model. i'd expect that to reduce server strain, not increase it.
[QUOTE=Firemoth;4002037]Again, as I stated, just because someone could do that (the inappropriate names), doesn't mean that it should be ruined for the rest of the people who wish to have the option. I know of someone on the Champion server who had a merc MM and named his minions things like Pvt Parts, Mjr Johnson, etc etc. Granted he doesn't play anymore, but the fact is, it didn't matter that the mobs weren't female, he still was using inappropriate names on his minions/himself.
Firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with giving the option of female minions, it should have been an option from the get go, and like you said earlier there are many available ways of limiting any forms of abuse. Even if costume customization of minions were implemented, restricting the costume variations to a limited set of options could easily prevent abuses.
However I take offense with the above statement, particularly Mjr Johnson as an inappropriate name. By saying it is inappropriate you are essentially saying the second most common surname in America is inappropriate when coupled with a title.. Mr. Johnson, Mjr Johnson, Pvt. Johnson.. etc.. you are effectively saying that surname is obscene which is false. The interpretation of the person is the problem, not the name. I could easily make a Triad style Mastermind and name one or all of my minions Mr. Wang without being offensive as Wang is the 8th most common surname in the WORLD, and one of the most common in China hence it being fully fitting in with a Triad themed character.. and naming them all that would be tantamount to running an American mastermind that has all his minions named Mr. Smith. The point is, Johnson, Wang, etc.. are not offensive names, just because ppl often make a culturally specific reference to an inappropriate associated meaning to those names.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
Firstly, I agree wholeheartedly with giving the option of female minions, it should have been an option from the get go, and like you said earlier there are many available ways of limiting any forms of abuse. Even if costume customization of minions were implemented, restricting the costume variations to a limited set of options could easily prevent abuses.
However I take offense with the above statement, particularly Mjr Johnson as an inappropriate name. By saying it is inappropriate you are essentially saying the second most common surname in America is inappropriate when coupled with a title.. Mr. Johnson, Mjr Johnson, Pvt. Johnson.. etc.. you are effectively saying that surname is obscene which is false. The interpretation of the person is the problem, not the name. I could easily make a Triad style Mastermind and name one or all of my minions Mr. Wang without being offensive as Wang is the 8th most common surname in the WORLD, and one of the most common in China hence it being fully fitting in with a Triad themed character.. and naming them all that would be tantamount to running an American mastermind that has all his minions named Mr. Smith. The point is, Johnson, Wang, etc.. are not offensive names, just because ppl often make a culturally specific reference to an inappropriate associated meaning to those names. |
You just made my point.
As much as we would like to believe that only few number of players would be abusing the whole gender and naming system. It will cause issues as you just mentioned. One player will misjudge a name and then call a GM. The GM then has to come to address the situation and then determines either the names are bad or the names are actually Okay. Regardless it required a GM to respond to make a judgement call. Wasting his time for something that wasn't an issue at one time and now is.
Sadly or humorously there are some real life people named some very interesting names. Names that would be very offensive if put in a different context. But nonetheless it is someones surname.
Now what. The player decides to fight the misjudgment call. What happens next ? Now more people are involved on a support issue that just is nonsense.
Look I'm sorry but the GMs are not so bright and the Devs make rash judgement calls. Without going into detail unless I need to. I was threatened with banning because a Dev and a Moderator made a very poor assumption. And only because I didn't back down and let them know I wasn't some kid they could scare did they even apologize. As much as it was a waste of time for them. It was a waste of time for me and it still pisses me off till this day. I was amazed at how this person thought he could bully someone around and speak to them as if Omnipotent.
I ask how are you going to quell these complaints ?
What is going to be in place to control the naming of pets and players?
What is going to be in place to determine that a players or pets name is good or bad?
What system is going to be in place to appeal a possible name change because a GM made a honest rash call?
To me just because a GM is not bright enough to think does not mean I need to suffer or be punished because of it. At the end of the day everyone has some sort of theme for their toons otherwise everyone or many would have a name resembling "mlsjfooh" and would be hitting the random costume button and just going with whatever comes out. So I surely do not want a GM to mess with my theme because they are too obtuse to understand.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I've had good interactions with the GMs thus far myself.
But yeah, still the fact that there is a potential for abuse doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. You can have a female mastermind that pimps out her male mercs/ninjas/thugs. You can make bios that make you seem like a lusty goddess of... lust.
And, as I stated, even just alternate skins, female or not, is long, long overdue.
Honestly if we're going to be given customization I'd ideally like the ability to put each individual minion through a mini-costume creator with only select pieces available based on which set you picked. For example: If you pick Robotics then you can choose which body-type and scale then you'll be given a list of all the tech options available to build your minions, perhaps with a few special bits that don't work on player rigs like Victoria heads/faces and the like, but otherwise just have the tech options, robotic arms/legs, clockwork faces, etc. If you pick Thugs you'll have the option of street clothes and such, hopefully with an option for skirts and various bits for the females, but mostly including pants, tank tops, t-shirts, tattoos, chain/barbed wire pieces and all the others that can evoke thug imagery. You could make a classy looking gang of well-dressed gangsters, a pin-striped group of Family bruisers, or a down and dirty street mob. And so on with Mercenaries getting pieces to build military/stealth/spec-ops costumes (Possibly with costume options to make a Longbow or Arachnos squad?), Ninjas getting various ninja/samurai parts, maybe not the most accurate but this is City of Heroes, give us the ninja pack plus various eastern-styled pieces plus a few mask options for the Oni and we're good. Heck, they could even throw in just an option to select certain zombies from the Zombie Apocalypse for zombie masterminds.
Anyway, dreamtime over. I know options like that would be VERY complex and take a VERY long time to implement, but for all we know, they could be working on that as we speak and just keeping it secret since it will take so long. I'd imagine with restricted costume options based on the set you chose it would prevent people from making a squadron of samurai bikini hookers or whatever. As far as just having selectable minions, that I can definitely cook up some ideas for.
Zombies: First/Second tier could have options to select from the Banished Pantheon zombies and Apocalypse zombies tier one and two (Husks/Chambers and the basic Apocalypse zombies plus the larger fleshy-looking ones with no clothing/hair). The Lich could have an option for Nightmare from Apocalypse or possibly a Death Shaman from the Banished Pantheon. It would give people an option to basically be a BP mastermind without having to adjust powers or anything. Also it would give people who don't want to look like a medieval sorceror an option to look more like a mad scientist who unleashed a zombie plague with the Apocalypse zombies.
Thugs: Give us Family, Warriors, Skulls and Hellions to choose from (include a few new, pre-built female models), plus any other applicable low-level street-thug groups. Not only does it give you an option for a particular sell (Rogue or redeemed) of criminals, but it also could present the option to mix and match so you could have some sort of Suicide Squad of various redeemed criminals.
Mercenaries: Malta and Knives of Artemis options, mix and match obviously. One and done really, unless the devs feel generous and are willing to give us options from Vanguard, Longbow and Arachnos as well. And if we're REALLY lucky maybe the RIP and PPD (Primal and Praetorian versions). Any pre-existing, organized agency really. Malta and Knives are most fitting, but Vanguard and Longbow would be pretty good too. Arachnos would be absolutely AMAZING, but we'd have to have the option of female banes/huntsmen too.
Robotics: Obviously Clockwork (both Primal and Praetorian), Victorias, Warworks, Nemesis, perhaps some Rikti drones thrown in for good measure? Mostly the Vickys that would be nice to have so we could make a fembot assassination squad without them being sex objects.
Ninjas: Tsoo really, maybe Syndicate if we want something more Yakuza based? Not too much to run off of in game already. Those two groups would provide plenty of options, but some nice pre-built m/f/h models using the Ninja pack would be nice options to have as well.
Demons: They really would only work as is, unless the devs want to give us some COT options like hordelings, succubi, behemoths, blade princes and hellfrosts. I would be especially okay with a bunch of Hordelings, Succubi and a Blade Prince for this, but that's entirely up to them. I think they're kind of iconic as the bestial/non-gendered set that they are.
Quote:
"Hi, I'm Zenlon, and I like to invent other people's positions myself so I can knock them down more easily."|
Originally Posted by Zenlon
This is sort of a goofy demand you've got, I wouldn't play any of these sets if the robotics in example (which are neither, male nor female) spawned Victorias. Throw a female ninja-skin into the Ninja set? Sure. But demanding that each Mastermind Set receive a female and crying the 'sexism card" is absolutely stupid.
Just an opinion. |
Nobody's demanding that each Mastermind set recieve a female, and nobody's crying the sexism card.
The devs HAVE CLAIMED that one of the barriers to doing female MM pets is that sexism will RESULT. This thread is about shooting that claim DOWN.
Further, Nobody's demanding that each mastermind set recieve a female. What is being asked for is the ability for masterminds to customize their pets the way every other AT can customize their powers. By choosing between -options-, which prefferably would include the ability to choose between pets of different genders for those of us who would like to offer equal opportunity employment.
And just so you know, it doesn't make you look very good when you barrel into a thread and post a contrary opinion without even understanding the position you're arguing against.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
I suppose I should also point out, as I don't know if my original post was clear in it's intention, that I'd prefer we be able to select each pet individually, so I could have a mixed squad of customized pets, say a male and female thug, a female arsonist, male and female enforcers, and a huge bruiser. Would make for a pretty good looking street gang in my opinion.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JKPhage
Honestly if we're going to be given customization I'd ideally like the ability to put each individual minion through a mini-costume creator with only select pieces available based on which set you picked. For example: If you pick Robotics then you can choose which body-type and scale then you'll be given a list of all the tech options available to build your minions, perhaps with a few special bits that don't work on player rigs like Victoria heads/faces and the like, but otherwise just have the tech options, robotic arms/legs, clockwork faces, etc. If you pick Thugs you'll have the option of street clothes and such, hopefully with an option for skirts and various bits for the females, but mostly including pants, tank tops, t-shirts, tattoos, chain/barbed wire pieces and all the others that can evoke thug imagery. You could make a classy looking gang of well-dressed gangsters, a pin-striped group of Family bruisers, or a down and dirty street mob. And so on with Mercenaries getting pieces to build military/stealth/spec-ops costumes (Possibly with costume options to make a Longbow or Arachnos squad?), Ninjas getting various ninja/samurai parts, maybe not the most accurate but this is City of Heroes, give us the ninja pack plus various eastern-styled pieces plus a few mask options for the Oni and we're good. Heck, they could even throw in just an option to select certain zombies from the Zombie Apocalypse for zombie masterminds.
Anyway, dreamtime over. I know options like that would be VERY complex and take a VERY long time to implement, but for all we know, they could be working on that as we speak and just keeping it secret since it will take so long. I'd imagine with restricted costume options based on the set you chose it would prevent people from making a squadron of samurai bikini hookers or whatever. As far as just having selectable minions, that I can definitely cook up some ideas for. Zombies: First/Second tier could have options to select from the Banished Pantheon zombies and Apocalypse zombies tier one and two (Husks/Chambers and the basic Apocalypse zombies plus the larger fleshy-looking ones with no clothing/hair). The Lich could have an option for Nightmare from Apocalypse or possibly a Death Shaman from the Banished Pantheon. It would give people an option to basically be a BP mastermind without having to adjust powers or anything. Also it would give people who don't want to look like a medieval sorceror an option to look more like a mad scientist who unleashed a zombie plague with the Apocalypse zombies. Thugs: Give us Family, Warriors, Skulls and Hellions to choose from (include a few new, pre-built female models), plus any other applicable low-level street-thug groups. Not only does it give you an option for a particular sell (Rogue or redeemed) of criminals, but it also could present the option to mix and match so you could have some sort of Suicide Squad of various redeemed criminals. Mercenaries: Malta and Knives of Artemis options, mix and match obviously. One and done really, unless the devs feel generous and are willing to give us options from Vanguard, Longbow and Arachnos as well. And if we're REALLY lucky maybe the RIP and PPD (Primal and Praetorian versions). Any pre-existing, organized agency really. Malta and Knives are most fitting, but Vanguard and Longbow would be pretty good too. Arachnos would be absolutely AMAZING, but we'd have to have the option of female banes/huntsmen too. Robotics: Obviously Clockwork (both Primal and Praetorian), Victorias, Warworks, Nemesis, perhaps some Rikti drones thrown in for good measure? Mostly the Vickys that would be nice to have so we could make a fembot assassination squad without them being sex objects. Ninjas: Tsoo really, maybe Syndicate if we want something more Yakuza based? Not too much to run off of in game already. Those two groups would provide plenty of options, but some nice pre-built m/f/h models using the Ninja pack would be nice options to have as well. Demons: They really would only work as is, unless the devs want to give us some COT options like hordelings, succubi, behemoths, blade princes and hellfrosts. I would be especially okay with a bunch of Hordelings, Succubi and a Blade Prince for this, but that's entirely up to them. I think they're kind of iconic as the bestial/non-gendered set that they are. |
i like this.
Quote:
Agreed.|
Originally Posted by JKPhage
I suppose I should also point out, as I don't know if my original post was clear in it's intention, that I'd prefer we be able to select each pet individually, so I could have a mixed squad of customized pets, say a male and female thug, a female arsonist, male and female enforcers, and a huge bruiser. Would make for a pretty good looking street gang in my opinion.
|
And I'd much rather see it be an optional choice than a random thing, like the appearances of some of the thugs, or a new "every set MUST have-" rule. Including female minions absolutely works concept- and appearance-wise for some sets and some characters, but it doesn't need to be a requirement for every Mastermind out there.
Among my own, I'd love for the Unquiet Bride to have a zombie Emma, Charlotte or Mary in there with Darcy, Brandon and Wickham... but Deirdre's demons and Hanano's ninja are fine as they are, and I probably wouldn't add female models to the mix for either of them.
So, yeah... Options. We should be able to have female minions if we want them, but it shouldn't be mandatory IMO.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Quote:
It was the theme, as he was going for a "*****" joke with his minions. I know Johnson is a very common name, I was using it as an example of what people are already doing. Take the name out of context, and there's nothing wrong with it, put it in context with the rest of the names, and SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE will most likely take offense to it.|
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
However I take offense with the above statement, particularly Mjr Johnson as an inappropriate name. By saying it is inappropriate you are essentially saying the second most common surname in America is inappropriate when coupled with a title.. Mr. Johnson, Mjr Johnson, Pvt. Johnson.. etc.. you are effectively saying that surname is obscene which is false. The interpretation of the person is the problem, not the name. I could easily make a Triad style Mastermind and name one or all of my minions Mr. Wang without being offensive as Wang is the 8th most common surname in the WORLD, and one of the most common in China hence it being fully fitting in with a Triad themed character.. and naming them all that would be tantamount to running an American mastermind that has all his minions named Mr. Smith. The point is, Johnson, Wang, etc.. are not offensive names, just because ppl often make a culturally specific reference to an inappropriate associated meaning to those names. |
But that's like arguing over someone of hispanic origin named Jesus Christe as having a perfectly legitimate name (yes, I went to school with someone named that) in real life, but when it's put on the game, someone will take offense to it. Or someone named Ni Phul (say it out loud), putting their name as a character name. It could be perfectly legit, but there's someone out there that will take offense to it.
Late to the party, as usual, but I was surprised to see that nobody mentioned Dominatrix and her gimps that the devs put into the game, you want to discuss T for Teen, that pushes that envelope...
That said, add me to your list, female gamer asking for female pets, I'm offended that we have to fight so hard for this equality, we've been allowed to vote for years now...
I went through the thread, and I could've sworn that I had posted in this thread before, but couldn't find my post...
Anyway, I sign. Having female pets and customizeable pets adds to the immersion of MMs, and I would be glad to have it. Tired of my new thugs always being dudes...
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
I wouldn't hold your breath for full customization. Considering the amount of work for the devs and the fact that Freemium players below Tier 5 don't even have access to the AT.
I'd settle for being able to have females and maybe being able to change the default colors of their costumes.
Quote:
Actualy i didnt just ask for something specific...that would get them nothing.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
Just going to say that several people in this thread and on the suggestion forum thread mentioned female npc toons. An example is the last poster PsychicKitty. Just remember that these are NPC with scripted moves and commands and not under the control of players.
Personally I want to say this will never happen. But I'm smart enough to know never say never. But for many reasons I think this produces more work for them. Not the creation of them but the policing of them. What many seem to be failing to see that you are going to create an increase in reporting issues. Not only for the names but for the emotes and scripts that smart players will be using. Yea you can generic a players name but you can't generic pets name. Unless your now going to request them to have that ability to punish abusers. Again I have been asking for Gun Drone just be summoned while flying for years. They just fixed it I've been asking for Group Fly fix for 4 years and counting. None of these are controversial debates or issues and they just addressed Gun Drone. Your asking them to do more work just maintaining this and its not going to happen. |
Like asking for a power to be able to summoned inthe air that actualy would take more coding.
I asked for simplized art replacement which they have proven they can do easily witht he dopplegangers already in the game...and witht he phantom army.
I even gave examples of why they should do it and how to make profit from it.
I mean if it where me....i would cash in heavily on the vanity of players.
Heck thats what Perfect World Does....and Gpotato does so as well....but i think perfect world has mastered it a tad better.
But with the fact the game has everything already there for things like this thread suggests....personaly i think they have some stuff planned for the future....
The latest Master Mind Set with the wolves and the transform travel powers are definately signs of things yet to come....heck i think its great they finaly are putting things in that are not bipedal or just float...and that sort of things takes alot of effort to get right especialy when mostly everything was bipedal.
I would like to see female human(oid) minions as well as males.
For me, this gets into the more general customization of minions, since gender switch should be doable as well as costume changes.
I'd love to do a Dual-Pistol Gunslinger MM around a saloon Madame and her rowdy female saloon-girl thugettes.
The lions in the Beast Mastery set are clearly female, so the devs have listened!
Maybe a weaker version of the Gorgon Fates group?
I think female MM pets is a GREAT suggestion! It wouldn't be any more sexist than a female dominatrix dressed MM cracking her poison whip on her henchmen to get them to do her bidding. If there is a way for someone (guy or girl player) to pervert something, it will be found despite all attempts to keep things suitable for teens to play. I LOVE the idea of Amazon pets.
At the risk of coming across sexist myself, cheerleader pets could be funny as hell or a group of guy and girl "nerds/geeks" that are "hacking" away at their enemies.
Maybe even pets that are a band of musicians for the sonically inclined, with the 3 minions being back-up singers then a guitarist and bassist and the big pet is a lead singer. Something like that anyway.
Customization is an awesome idea. But I can see where it could be a nightmare to incorporate. But color tintable seems a decent compromise.
Anyway, that's my thoughts.
Go go girl power! lol
Lord, please forgive me for all of the evil I have done... and some of what I am about to do.
Females are overrated, where's our transgender community?
/signed. As others have said, I don't think full customization of your pets is viable or reasonable, but selecting from a couple (2 or 3) different looks for each pet shouldn't be an issue. They already give the ability to select alternate animations for many powers so how is this any different? You should be able to easily give MM's the option of different pet looks with the ability to change the colors (with the colors, it would just be the two colors affecting the entire pet, not the ability to change the color of each costume piece).
Will also agree with the sentiment that saying there are "rating related" reasons for not doing it is a bit contradictory as the costume pieces available to female toons (as well as the sliders on the body type) already lend themselves to a preponderance of T and A.
Just seems a bit silly that game that has as many options limits what you can do with your pets.
Try my AE Arc: Out of Place, Out of Time ID#304340.
Leave your Arc title in the feedback and I will check yours out as well.
Even if it's the go by excuse, it's 2012, you mean to tell me in nearly eight years you haven't figured out how to do this when you've figured out power customization, color customization, powerset prolifierateion, a way to go from hero to villain and vice versa?
Differing mechanics like momentum, combos for powers, etc but "Someone may do something improper" really, that's as bad as BioWare's "Artistic Integrity" excuse.
/signed
I really don't see any viable excuse against this. Maybe let us use AE space for it.
50's: Heroes: Ozmeth DB/WP; Black Decker DM/Regen; Shado-Strike DM/SR Scrapper (13 AV soloed); Desert-Shock Claws/Elec Scrapper; Shado-Shriek Dark/Son Def
Villains: Bokken Nin/Nin
Current project(s):
Master Mind love is waaaayyyy overdue. I doubt we will ever get full customization, but we really deserve at least a selection alternative models for our pets. Not just females body types, but themed types as well. Longbow, Arachnos troops and PPD to swap for Mercs. Clockworks for Robots and so forth. Let them be chosen through the tailor on the power customization screen.
Quote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
Your asking them to do more work just maintaining this and its not going to happen.
|
I thought this was one of the selling points of "Freedom", that the money we spend in the Paragon Market would go to increased Dev headcount so we can see more of the things we've been asking for.
Instead it seems all the "extra" money is going to some Suit's 4th Mercedes.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
Congratulations, you win the interwebs!
[EDIT]
Oh, and just an FYI, I do plan on bringing printouts of this thread to the Spring Player Summit to "back up" my point when I bring it up YET AGAIN to them and ask why they won't do it.