Possible I22 Stalker improvements

Sorry, I don't recall having any conversations with you particularly. But I suppose we're having one now...

Lol I'm beginning to get that vibe Smily_Joe (someone I have had many conversations with) was feeling.

As of now, if your bottom line was to kill stuff, do lots of DPS and all that, your best bet is a SCRAPPER not a STALKER. Stalkers don't even have the tools to pump out consistent DPS (like Soul Drain, Siphon Power, Follow up, Damage Auras, etc). If you are choosing a Stalker, it's most likely for the stealth combat, controlled criticals, and possibly the challenge (survival, timing and target prioritizing).

The S_J vibe I'm getting is *NO ONE GIVES A S**T ANYMORE!* because the new changes *throws* stealth combat away (no need to take placate, just charge in and hit), controlled crits and greater DPS are rewarded for *not* assassinating someone, survival was not that big of a challenge but will be less of one with the higher HP cap (and the past improvements to base HP), timing anything is a hinderance if you get just the same reward for *not* doing that and who gives a sh*t about target prioritization? Stalkers only did that because they wanted to feel useful and help a team. Hell, I prioritize targets on my MA/SD scrapper all the same.

And AF being usable while hidden wouldn't do crap. It only assures you can critical with AS...but you still have to *hit* something *FIRST*. And you're still reverted back to a 3sec interruptible cast time.

Who was disputing that? I was disputing that Placate was a bad power. It is not. So go argue that with Warkupo.

It was one of the main capabilities that kept a MA Stalker in the running for DPS with a MA Scrapper (although never exceeding one). But new AS will push the MA Stalker ahead.

For AVs, it is a tactic that requires timing but it pays off in that, it can potentially have a decent payoff (more dmg than you could do in the equivalent time frame + demoralize).

Unless you can come up with a 4sec chain that outdamages Placate + AS now, I say you are intentionally ignoring facts.

That isn't to say I am ignoring the problems with that combo...that's the thing, sometimes Placate + AS isn't usable. That doesn't stop it from being one of the better damage tools we got (currently and outside of Street Justice). I'd have rather they improved the reliability of hidden AS.


And I'll ask this...I won't even bother responding anymore because it doesn't matter...you people will get what you want and it's not like I'm trying to keep you away from what you want...

Do you see other options/opportunity?

Simple ... yes ... and for the simple minded. It's a shortcut that is only being contemplated because the rest of the Archetype's primary powersets aren't "up to snuff" for doing what they're supposed to do. It's a band-aid, not a solution. It promotes Muscle Memory Button Mashing at the expense of Situational Awareness and the all-important (to me, anyway) aspect of Player Skill. It "dumbs things down" so as to make them "work" for people who don't want to have to work for it.

It IS simple ... and unsatisfying.

There were (and are!) other means to achieve the same objectives, many of which would be "true-r" to the heart and soul of what makes the Stalker Archetype something more than just a Scrapper who can Sneak Around.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

Like magically bringing down PToD's in .1% of the game content?

That's merely one way of many possible choices ... and is not something which is mutually exclusive with other options. It's also certainly something that would allow Stalkers to meaningfully and *obviously* contribute to AV battles.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

But how does that help stalkers when not teamed? The harder targets would still regen and most combos don't have enough status effects to stack.

I like it.

We still need to wait till Beta before we flame it.

Which, again, make up perhaps .1% of all conflicts in the game. And that's being generous.

Sorry Redlynne, it's a nifty idea, but it's pointless - just like the dev-proposed buff.

In which case, Angry_Citizen, you need to start campaigning to have all Damage Enhancements for Cone, PBAoE and Target AoE powers shifted from Schedule A to Schedule B ... because that seems to be the only option to achieve what YOU want, which is a Global AoE Damage NERF.

Have fun with that.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

What you desire is unreasonable, on multiple fronts.

I've had enough of your bomb throwing and resistance to dialogue.

As you've said, repeatedly ... you're wrong.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

You know as well as I do that if all anyone cared about was doing the most possible damage we'd all only play a few AT's, and only a few combinations. So perhaps I should expand my comment; I like to kill stuff in different and exciting ways. The bottom line is the same though; I like to kill stuff.

I like the thematic of the Stalker. He sneaks in, assassinates the **** out of a guy, and then goes to town on the rest. Maybe it's not different enough from a Scrapper for you guys, but I like it, and I've never felt the two needed to be night and day to begin with. They are different enough that I FEEL different playing them.

The only problem with a Stalker, really, is that it was numerically inferior to everything else that it was *supposed* to be better than. It didn't survive as well, and it didn't do as much damage. These changes are going to *fingers crossed* fix both of those, and thus, I'm pretty happy about it.


Stalkers are never going to be fixed because the people who play Stalkers are never going to be satisfied because the people who play Stalkers can't even agree on what a Stalker should BE. This one thread is enough evidence of that.

Congrats, because everything a Stalker was suppose to do *IS STILL* inferior numerically. Nothing a Stalker does that's noteworthily different from what any other melee does, will change.


And I say again, *WHO CARES!*

Go elsewhere if you're going to try and pin the shortcomings of whatever you're playing on someone besides yourself. Same when you figure out that Stalkers will be just the same vanilla flavor as Scrappers. Don't go crying that this, that and that should be changed because it'll be *TOO LATE*. Hell, it's pretty much too late now as, like A_C says, no one actually gives a damn. They just want to keep up with the Jones. It stopped being about how well and effective one fulfills a theme and became about doing [X] amount of DPS better than Archetype Q.

To which I say "Who cares? Do whatever the hell you want and don't come back crying when you don't like what you get. EVER."

Placate + AS is still not on the "better" combos. It's a good combo for soloing and other than that, it's a slow and interruptable combo.

Placate + AS takes more than 4s. Placate itself is 1.5s. A good assassin needs an attack that is FAST and high damaging.

I was playing my SJ/Ice with two friends (a Dominator and a Defender) in Lady Winter and I don't even bother with Placate + AS. One, I hate detoggling Chilling Embrace. Two, I find a simple Placate + Shin Breaker good enough to kill off a minion or a lieut. If it's a boss, I usually start the fight with BU + AS on it anyway and finish it off with the rest of attacks.

And stop fantasizing that the dev made this change for me. You have your ideas and I have mine. The dev sees the problem that Placate is unreliable and they are giving you a way to bypass that extra step (Focus) to get a very good ST attack. If you don't like it? Don't use it. You are more than welcome to play the way you want Placate + AS. I know I am not the only one that sees Placate is a bad offensive power and there is no need to improve upon a bad power unless they totally re-vamp it.

I still see plenty of things that Stalker differs from Scrapper.

And some of you need to stop crying before the beta is even up. There could more things that we can get them to buff/change before it goes live.

Bull (the last part).

List them.

Because, when things go into beta, that is the *end testing*. Things rarely are pulled and redone at that point. What I'm trying to do is appeal to the notion of improving the bad/suboptimal things that stylize the AT to preserve their differences from Scrappers. Why?

What are the intended goals of these changes? Not to improve upon the distinctive attack style of the AT, not to make it more applicable or worthwhile but to improve their ST DPS beyond another AT.

If it's ever desired to improve upon that distinctive feature to emphasize the differences, do you think more additions and buffs would come? Not if the AT performs well because distinction and uniqueness are not a data point on their radar.

Once the changes enter beta, they'll be tested to see if they *work* not if they are desirable. You'll have your damage, your ST DPS crown yet be nothing other than Scrappers (not a loss if you didn't give a crap about the people that like how Stalkers play now).

And you finally grow a heart and have some compassion for those that struggle with current tactics? Ask to add something to make the unique Stalker style a bit easier to use? Too late. The devs don't make tops ATs more tops and they aren't going to pull back some of those older buffs to make room. That'd be admitting they were wrong then...which doesn't happen unless there's a 5+ year span between each change.

That's not entirely true. Look at Elec Melee. When that was in beta it had Thunderclap. As the set was tested in Beta everyone agreed that Thunderclap was stupid on Stalkers and the Devs changed it to how Elec Melee is now.

I want Fiery Aura, too. Fiery Embrace + Assassin's Strike... mmm. After all, fire is sneaky!

Ditch Fire Breath for AS and the damage aura for Hide.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

*digs around for an appropriate response*
There. That should answer any questions about Fire's secondary effect.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Daaaaamn......

I can't even keep a fire/fire scrapper alive, but this would be...intriguing.

*reserves Dr. McNinja on Infinity, soon to be a StJ/FA Stalker*

Sounds like more pillow talk. This whole paragraph reeks of emotional outcry about a proposed change that, hey, guess what, you haven't even tested yet.

But yeah, Stalkers are doomed and that's really hurtful.

Boo-Hoo.


Look, I'm super-duper sworry that Stalkers aren't turning out to be the special little snowflake that YOU, and YOU in particular, envisioned but you need to turn off the oprah-thick display of EMOTION going on in this thread.

You talk about theme like it's this universally accepted idea, and it's not. It's one thing to voice your OPINION on what that theme should be, but when you decide to get on this big soap box and whine about how Stalkers are a failed concept, that we should all just go home and quit playing, all because some magical developer isn't listening to you and what you specifically think a Stalker should be, you sound like a small child who is just going to keep complaining until they get what they want.

You and a number of people in this thread go waaay beyond just voicing your opinion. You think you ARE the opinion. It doesn't matter that I think Stalkers are in a good place thematically. It doesn't matter to you that I didn't want them to be mind-boggingly different from a Scrapper. You're so brain-dead convinced that you're right that you don't even understand what an opinion is anymore.

So I ask you again, how is anyone supposed to take something like "waaah, Stalkers are dead, let's take our toys and go home~!" seriously?