RMT spammers getting brave aren't they?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-11-17 06:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
My email settings prevent any incursion. If I see any in broadcast or help chans I ignore as spammer immediately. With that being said, why anyone would think Exalted would be immune is beyond me.
Quote:
You think these people in China have anything better to do? What options do they have in prison. Work all day at back breaking hard labor and then work all night farming and spamming RMT advertisements.|
Originally Posted by Frostbiter
The same thing is happening on Freedom help chat too. It strikes me as more desperation than anything else. They must be going through a lot of trouble to create accounts, spam help a few times, and then get banned almost immediately.
|
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...et-gaming-scam
Freedom is probably the worst for them.... They hang out now at Cap Black market (which they never did when I started) and now I've seen them by trains in ap a long with in AE, by ms. Liberty, and usually 2 in wentsworth from different companies ...... Not to mention help channel. It will be nice when the devs do something about it. Its Gets annoying quickly.
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
Quote:
What can the devs do? Any type of channel that the free accounts are given access to is going to be abused by the RMT spam. They are why the draconian restrictions were implemented in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Oneirohero
Then it's sort of official, the RMTers have caught onto the accessibility of a server-wide communication channel and are spamming the hell out of it. Sure you can remove help from your chat tabs but that just means Help gets runned-down and the new players will think less of the game for it, not to mention trick the gullible into a financially painful trap.
I think maybe I should forward this new to Zwilly and see if they could figure out an action plan. |
At least now it is limited to local and /help instead of showing up on every damn channel like it used to.
Sad thing is I was having lunch with a friend and his wife one time (my best friend was also there).
Talking about random stuff/catching up and somehow we got talking about what games people were still playing.
Him and his wife were playing that one medieval game that's really popular and said that they actually used a RMT service (or something similar); paid 50 bucks each for some gold (50 gold?) in the game....
Wow...of all the people that did it I would have never thought he would have....live and learn...
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Quote:
Great post, and I agree to a large extent, but the one guy I personally know who's had trouble with RMT (on another game, not City) has Alzheimer's. He has a hard time understanding that folks can and will screw you over, and despite everyone's best efforts to get the concept of "Buying Money Is Bad" through to him, he'll still occasionally pop up on forums and go "So I bought some gold..."|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Like I said, this cannot be overstated. RMTers are NOT just harmless irritations that flaunt the EULA and ToS. They're thieves; professional criminals who WILL screw you over in ways that you probably haven't even thought about, and not just related to the game. Part of me relishes in the thought of your bank accounts being cleaned out and your identity stolen, but the only bitter pill to swallow is that the funds are used to round up even more people as naive as you.
|
It's frustrating, but it's tough to full-on blame the guy, you know? It's mostly just sad.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Quote:
I hear you, but this should be treated just the same as an Alzheimer's sufferer who thinks that sending money to that really nice Nigerian prince who just wants to transfer some funds back home is okay. If they don't understand, or they're not fully able to process the ramifications of such choices, they need someone to help look out for their financial best interest and stop them from making such mistakes.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Great post, and I agree to a large extent, but the one guy I personally know who's had trouble with RMT (on another game, not City) has Alzheimer's. He has a hard time understanding that folks can and will screw you over, and despite everyone's best efforts to get the concept of "Buying Money Is Bad" through to him, he'll still occasionally pop up on forums and go "So I bought some gold..."
It's frustrating, but it's tough to full-on blame the guy, you know? It's mostly just sad. |
That's not me being cold, that's me being practical. I hope that if I'm ever diagnosed with such a condition that I have someone I really trust that I can turn over such responsibility to.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Quote:
Actually the highest Tier pros operate pretty much like a normal company, the one big one (which doesn't bother with city of heroes since it's not profitable in the long term) employs large swathes of people to do the gold farming and don't spam about their services ingame, they actually rely on word of mouth and reputation for being safe, secure and fast. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
- the highest-tier pros don't ever want to risk their brand at all-- they make too much selling the card numbers on exchanges to risk any really overt issues. They work through third parties, spam briefly from accounts they're being paid to powerlevel, bot-spam on free accounts, or pay commissions to 3rd parties-- pretending not to know that these parties aren't just using free accounts to spam.
|
Yes it's a weird idea but it operates as a pretty much a normal company operates, without the selling credit card info.
However...it is the ONLY RMT company I know that operates like this, primarily because it is also the largest RMT company, every other one is as dodgy as all hell and not worth the time of day to even consider.
The Fly-by-night ones will spam ingame and flog off credit card info but the bigger ones will actually want you to return as a customer, though TonyV mentions why they're still risky.
City of Heroes is pretty much the target of the Fly-by-night RMTers.
Why?
Because unlike virtually every other MMO in existence, making money in this game is ridiculously easy, the big guns of the RMT world (the one legit and the many dodgy) think in long term profit and there is very little long term profit for RMT in CoH.
Edit: Edited my post because it really seemed like I was going 'yeah RMT is fine!' which I'm totally not, RMT is not fine.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
Quote:
No argument there.
|
Originally Posted by TonyV
That's not me being cold, that's me being practical. I hope that if I'm ever diagnosed with such a condition that I have someone I really trust that I can turn over such responsibility to.
|
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
I saw one doing it in local chat of all things .
And this is the attitude that keeps this illegal industry going. And it is illegal in all senses of the word, backed by organized crime rings. Scroll back and find that posted link that shows the horrible working conditions associated with this industry. It's indentured servitude at the worst.
They aren't just selling you influence you know. If they can get their hands on an account, via keylogging or phishing, with a lot of Inf on it, they'll gladly strip that account bare and sell that Inf to you. Keep that in mind. Someone elses account suffers so you can cheat your way to fast IO sets.
I doubt you'll feel it's not that bad if it were your account stripped clean and all your hard earned gains sold to the next guy that doesn't think it's a big deal. 
Quote:
I'd imagine a lot of "them" are just software. Use a script to create an account, generate a random character, send a few broadcasts, log out, repeat.
|
Originally Posted by Frostbiter
The same thing is happening on Freedom help chat too. It strikes me as more desperation than anything else. They must be going through a lot of trouble to create accounts, spam help a few times, and then get banned almost immediately.
|
no offence, but i looove how they seem to really only go after NA side :P .. union nice n peaceful 
Quote:
You're kidding, right? Everything Myddie said was perfectly valid. It's not about finger wagging and who does and does not have time to play the game or any of that.| Condescend much? I dont have to apologize to you if I want to "cheat" my way to IOs since I regulary deploy to warzones for 12+ months at a time while hopefully you have the luxury of playing this or any game whenever you like (I will apologize for any assumptions on my part though). |
RMT is not simply some gaming nerds botting influence to sell people for a few extra bucks or simply "for the lulz". This is organized crime at almost its text book definition, and one that's supported any time someone wants to fast track their game characters for any reason by buying in-game currency.
Don't kid yourself. Credit card fraud, identity theft and human exploitation are very real issues, even if you don't consider them significant. They also happen to be the core issue's which saturate the RMT trade.
Congratulations.
Since you think such things are beneath you to worry about, you are actively encouraging and supporting organized criminals who can, will, and HAVE ruined people's lives.
You mentioned that you're a veteran. For that I thank you.
But one of the things you're fighting for is so people have the freedom to not be victimized by scum like the people being discussed in this thread. By purchasing services from RMTers (AKA professional criminals), you are undermining the very thing you have risked your life to protect.
Seriously.
And I would not be surprised in the slightest if some or all of the money you have spent buying in-game currency is going directly into the pockets of the very people you have been fighting against. Internet fraud is a large contributor to the bankrolls of terrorists the world over.
So the next time you're in a firefight with an insurgent....stop for a second and consider the fact that you might have paid for the gun being used to shoot at you.
No, I'm not joking, or trying to give you crap. I'm dead serious.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I almost never see RMT spammers myself, and I play on one of the most crowded servers ( Virtue ). I suppose maybe my perception is biased due to comparing to other MMOs' RMT spam, but the problem in CoH is so minor it's easily forgettable.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Quote:
Oh, sorry, I forgot. Being in the military totally makes ignoring fair play, copyright laws, and contracts totally acceptable! Frankly, it doesn't take a lot of play to earn the funds for IOs, so that excuse doesn't fly. I have nothing but respect for soldiers, especially those who fight for us in the wars. In general. That respect for an individual soldier will fall considerably when he starts using it to excuse dishonorable and/or illegal behavior.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Condescend much? I dont have to apologize to you if I want to "cheat" my way to IOs since I regulary deploy to warzones for 12+ months at a time while hopefully you have the luxury of playing this or any game whenever you like (I will apologize for any assumptions on my part though).
|
Hell, run the SSA once a week, buy a good rare IO every couple weeks with the A-Merits, and sell it on the market ( Or craft then sell for higher profits in some cases ). No problem! Or, you know, realize that IO sets aren't necessary to play the game just fine and work around your limitations like the rest of us.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Quote:
Well, either you're lying to us or the citizens of this country are far better informed than our military intelligence.... I'm not going to outright call you a liar, as the latter case is sadly possible in some cases. Just point out that it's rather convenient that you happen to be in the field you feel most qualified to discount his statements. Then again, you've already displayed lack of honor to a degree where the former is very likely.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
I appreciate your input and respect your opinion. As a former veteran and now as a civilian currently working in the intelligence field, Im very aware of where the money for assault weapons, RPGs, parts for vehicle borne improvised expolsive devices and etc come from. I have seen how terrorist organizations and special interest financiers conduct their international operations and I can assure you that for this type of activity, the threat doesnt come from gold farming personnel forced to play City of Heroes.
|
Trust me, "I am deployed to warzones for 12+ months at a time" won't win you any sympathy for supporting criminals ( And, though the law is fuzzy on it, potentially being one yourself ).
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
HA! This topic is surreal.
RMT hater- "RMT steal your moniez and **** your dog!"
RMT user- "well hey guys I actually used it and nothing bad happened to me"
RMT hater- "OMG you fund terrorism!"
Particulary tasty to me is this particular RMT user claiming to be a member of the US (I assume) military. What with TonyV, ClawsandEffect and others using propaganda, misinformation and scare tactics on par with what started a certain war recently...
Quote:
Really? |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
HA! This topic is surreal.
RMT hater- "RMT steal your moniez and **** your dog!" RMT user- "well hey guys I actually used it and nothing bad happened to me" RMT hater- "OMG you fund terrorism!" Particulary tasty to me is this particular RMT user claiming to be a member of the US (I assume) military. What with TonyV, ClawsandEffect and others using propaganda, misinformation and scare tactics on par with what started a certain war recently... |
Can you state with certainty that RMT sites are not selling credit card numbers to organized crime or terrorists in other countries?
I agree that it is unlikely that there are terrorist organizations or mobsters actively selling influence themselves.
But who do you think is buying the credit card numbers the people who are selling it put up on the black market?
Internet fraud is a huge source of income for organized crime, and it is incredibly naive to believe the various terrorist groups haven't picked up on the idea. And since the majority of the people perpetrating these crimes are in different countries, there's very little the justice system can do about it. It is entirely possible to steal millions from people around the world with nothing more than an internet connection, it's difficult t o trace back to the source, and virtually impossible to prosecute anyone for it.
The real question is: Why would mobsters and terrorists NOT use such a profitable, and unpunishable means to fund their operations? Drugs and guns are a lot more high profile, and there are laws and enforcement agencies that spend all their time fighting those problems.
If CrazyJersyan really is in the intelligence field and believes there is no problem here, I would assume it reflects the general beliefs of the intelligence field as a whole. If that is true, that means they aren't doing anything to stop it.
If you were seeking funds for illegal/terrorist operations, wouldn't you think a profitable enterprise that you can keep going indefinitely and never be punished for would be the PERFECT means to acquire them?
If you use an RMT site to buy virtual items/cash in an MMO, they can sell your credit card number immediately, and the purchaser will have up to a month to use it for anything they want before you'll even know you've been ripped off. And even if you catch it within a few days, as long as whatever they bought has been shipped the crime has been committed and they will most likely get away with it.
Thinking this is a harmless little thing is exactly what the people doing it are counting on.
TonyV is exactly right in how they do it. They file the credit card number and hold onto it for a while, and then sell it later on. Since the victim has probably used that card for other online purchases in the meantime, the victim will be unable to tell where they got the number from. They won't immediately put 2 and 2 together and realize that the RMT purchase they made 6 months or a year ago led to their credit card number being used by someone in Russia or Pakistan.
Not scare tactics or propaganda.
Reality.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
I don't know how it works for other people, but if my card gets used in a way that doesn't fit my profile( whatever one they have built up around me) the card gets declined. Sometimes it is a pita, but it is there to protect them more than me and I am thankfull for it.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If you use an RMT site to buy virtual items/cash in an MMO, they can sell your credit card number immediately, and the purchaser will have up to a month to use it for anything they want before you'll even know you've been ripped off. And even if you catch it within a few days, as long as whatever they bought has been shipped the crime has been committed and they will most likely get away with it.
|
Not condoning anything here mind you, on either side.
Quote:
You'd be amazed at how many people have no security measures in place on who puts a debit against their credit card. |
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I don't know how it works for other people, but if my card gets used in a way that doesn't fit my profile( whatever one they have built up around me) the card gets declined. Sometimes it is a pita, but it is there to protect them more than me and I am thankfull for it.
Not condoning anything here mind you, on either side. |
The biggest contributor to credit card fraud over the internet, by far, is the "It's not going to happen to me." mentality.
Piece of advice:
If you REALLY think it's not a big deal and want to buy influence/gold/random shinies from an RMT site, do a quick search first and find out who they are and where they are based.
I just searched several of the names I'm familiar with from spam I've received. They were all based in China, where credit card fraud is not investigated or punished. Most of them also do not accept PayPal as payment, because PayPal has blocked transactions to and from them for repeatedly violating their terms of service (You're not allowed to use PayPal to buy or sell intangible items online*)
That means if you want to do business with them, a credit card is your only option.
Maybe they won't sell your credit card information on the black market. But willingly giving them the opportunity to do so because you're too lazy and impatient to earn influence yourself is just....to put it bluntly.....pants-on-head STUPID.
(*This I know for a fact, my wife used to work there. They will ban your account if you do so habitually.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Couldn't agree more. If there is one thing I have learned, it's that there should be more pants on the heads of people walking around.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Maybe they won't sell your credit card information on the black market. But willingly giving them the opportunity to do so because you're too lazy and impatient to earn influence yourself is just....to put it bluntly.....pants-on-head stupid.
|
If I see a free player even considering the idea, I would happily give them the 25 million to cap them.
@CrazyNJ --
You are very welcome to your opinion of my statements, but they aren't made lightly. No offense was intended either. Coming as a player in the 'big game' and as someone who spends quite a lot of time on their forum helping new players and answering questions, I see faaar too many people coming for help because their account has been hacked and their game associated email accounts stolen because of a trojan/keylogger.
Many of those also report that their payment methods have also been compromised, including PayPal and the like.
Credit card fraud is rampant in the game because the hackers use the card numbers they've bought or stolen to pay for account services, which they in turn sell to people who turn a blind eye to it all. Because buying a level 85 fully kitted out with Epics is less work than actually playing the game and earning it.
When the unfortunate victim of the fraud finally realizes what's happening, their card is dinged, they may have their account locked or banned for fraud, and the person who bought the illegal services gets what they bought taken away literally, or their account is banned outright, or both.
The game has to eat the cost of the services that were fraudulently purchased, the person who got their card number stolen may have to pay, or have their credit cleared up, and the person who purchased the illegal services? They're out money as well, but they set in motion a chain of events that harms other parties in the long run.
(Remember the Sony hackings where secure info was lost? Yeah... quite a few people used their MMO game logins on the Sony server. Care to guess what happened to that info and what happened to their game accounts and characters?)
I've seen those that buy gold claim it's cool because it's a victimless crime. No one gets hurt, right? I think my bro-in-law would argue differently since his account was compromised, all his raid gear sharded and sold off, gold all gone. It was only observant people who noticed he was online when he shouldn't be that got it locked down preventing these jerks from cleaning out several hundred thousand worth of gold and items from our guild bank. He had to have his credit cards canceled and reissued because he had zero way of knowing if his CC number was safe anymore. Yep, victimless crime alright.
Gold farmers don't 'farm' much anymore. They rarely generate currency within the game because the time to do so isn't commiserate with the demand for the product. Buying lists of credit card numbers and stolen login/passwords is far more profitable and easy. There is just too much low hanging fruit sitting on accounts, both inactive and active. All it takes is trading the gold away to the customer and you're done. What happens to the account after that isn't their problem. There will always be more accounts to create or steal.
I'll leave it at that. Those claiming hyperbole and exaggeration likely are only seeing it from the perspective of someone who has never been affected in any way.
The worst part about it is that the billing is coming from NCsoft, which masks the RMTer behind a reputable company. RMTer gets more money and accounts to ply their irreputable trade, legitimate customer gets ripped off, NCsoft's reputation gets a black eye. It's win-lose-lose, and yet there are people out there who 1) continue to subsidize this trade, thinking, "What does it hurt anyone?", and 2) think that because their card hasn't been dinged after a month or two, they've hit upon the one "honest" RMTer out there among the pile of bovine fecal matter.
Power leveling services are even worse, because that typically involves actually giving someone your account information, which is Darwin Award stupid. Then the RMTers don't even have to bother with stealing credit card numbers, they can just outright get your account banned. Oh, and don't think for a second that your username and password isn't tried on sites like Bank of America, Amazon.com, Gmail, etc. to try to get even more stuff from you, or that your credit card number, once you've figured out you're being scammed, isn't sold on the black market to people like, say, the Russian Mafia.
Like I said, this cannot be overstated. RMTers are NOT just harmless irritations that flaunt the EULA and ToS. They're thieves; professional criminals who WILL screw you over in ways that you probably haven't even thought about, and not just related to the game. Part of me relishes in the thought of your bank accounts being cleaned out and your identity stolen, but the only bitter pill to swallow is that the funds are used to round up even more people as naive as you.
So please, people, as you encounter these RMTers, report them with extreme prejudice. You're not just stopping them from pestering players, you're helping NCsoft cut off the income of organized criminals.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...