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There's a thread (CEBR) that tells you to do exactly this in order to PL your Claws/Electric Brute. Since such a character can obliterate several large spawns and the subsequent ambushes within seconds, the advantage gained by using the inspirations before entering the mission provided a pretty decent advantage, because your insp tray replenishes very quickly when you're hopped up on reds and purples. Which allows you collect more reds and purples.|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
In my experience, there's only a very small handful of maps that actually have enemies waiting at the door. Aside from those, I can't see any reason why you would want to pop them before going in the door, instead of waiting until you load.
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Buffing before entering could mean the difference between easily surviving the onslaught of six +4/x8 ambushes and going off to the hospital.
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If they need to do that to take on those boss fights and groups of difficult customs, inspiration toking is not their big problem. Not being able to play is.|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
With today's patch:
Any inspirations you take before going into a mission have their effects stripped. But only in AE. Now, before you start cheering and making "yay, we are fighting the evil farmer" remarks, remember this will also affect people dealing with boss fights and groups of difficult custom enemies in regular stories. |
It is a bit weird that I can do this in hazard zones and you can't do it in AE, but... oh well, so what? If you wanna tell me stuff like what we were doing in CEBR was reasonable, and that this somehow represents neutering of appropriate play, I have a bridge you can buy.
Chugging inspirations before loading in isn't the best course of action. But removing options isn't a good idea.
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While in a way I agree with you...how can you possibly claim that the rating system has zero to do with how others are using AE? I looked the other day, and you know what the top 5 hall of fame arcs where? Go on, guess. FARMS. So, if the climb onto that leaderboard has zero to do with how AE is being used...how did they get there?|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I find this kind of statement interesting. What is the goal of this "casual" story writer? Is it to make a nice group of custom enemies to fight and a solid original story? Or is it that AND to have as many people play it as possible? AND to make it to five star status and move up the "leaderboard" eventually becoming a dev choice or hall of fame?
I doubt the "casual" story writer is hurt in any way since they can still make their stories. The desire for attention and glory hovering just under the surface of these kinds of statements is what the issue tends to really be about. I made a solid story with great looking customs etc.. about three years ago. I just got a glowing comment on the mission story/customs etc... from someone the other day. I think a grand total of 16 people may have played the mission and left a comment in that time. Its not a reflection on the quality of the mission as all the reviews have been nice to glowingly nice. If people want to be recognized "that" much then they need to make the same effort that others do to advertise your mission and get it noticed etc... Because of the messed up rating system among other things you will still have an uphill climb, but the climb has nothing to do with how others are using MA. NOTHING. The devs might want to consider fixing the search system etc.... as it has blown since the day MA was released. |
You said it yourself, your own arc had nice enemies and story, but only got 16 plays. Now, I am NOT saying your intention was to get into the 'hall of farm', or anything besides making a story for the self satisfaction, but considering how often most of those farms are being played compared to story arcs...again, how can you claim the ratings climb does not hinge on how AE is used?
[QUOTE=Talen Lee;3982958]If they need to do that to take on those boss fights and groups of difficult customs, inspiration toking is not their big problem. Not being able to play is.[/qutoe]
I have a suggestion on where you can shove that bit of "analysis." But that seems par for the course in this part of the forum as it is. Unless you've played with me - which, from you saying this sort of BS, you haven't - you have *no* basis to make such a statement.
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There's a difference between "a couple" (or a breakfree and yellow, for mixed mezzing/stealthed mobs, or 2-3 purples and some reds for a boss/eb/av near the entrance) and the "eat 50 reds and 30 purples" for farmers.
| It is a bit weird that I can do this in hazard zones and you can't do it in AE, but... oh well, so what? If you wanna tell me stuff like what we were doing in CEBR was reasonable, and that this somehow represents neutering of appropriate play, I have a bridge you can buy. |
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
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Assuming that by "normal missions", you mean normal contacts, outside of MA, you still CAN do it on normal missions. The change was specific to MA. What did notice is that this also affects Non-Self Cast buffs and DEBUFFs. Essentially, if you go into an MA arc and get debuffed, you can exit, re-enter, and the debuff will go poof. That's not to say you won't be debuffed AGAIN, but hey...|
Originally Posted by Stormbird
So, because *I* do it on normal missions, as well as story missions, but you don't, it's a farming issue.
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It's nearly as good (but not quite as good) as the way missions in general used to work. When you exited, you were instantly healed to full health, so you could duck out for a quick heal at low levels if your rest was on cooldown.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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You're right, I don't. I can just base it on my experience of playing the game and doing very hard things. And I can say that anyone who needs that sort of thing to handle anything in the game has a problem with defining their need.
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Originally Posted by Stormbird
I have a suggestion on where you can shove that bit of "analysis." But that seems par for the course in this part of the forum as it is. Unless you've played with me - which, from you saying this sort of BS, you haven't - you have *no* basis to make such a statement.
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I have to disagree with you on this. To me it shows that the devs have given the middle finger to the story players and writers. Just looking over the patch notes, and the 6 or 7 MA changes, did I see even ONE thing that helps story players/writers? Nope. Is even a simple fix, such as adding a Story Arc tag to an already existing tag system in the build? Nope. I'm sure stripping buffs and reducing rewards for ambushes took far more coding time that adding a new tag. |
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
It may not be the sweeping changes the AE needs, but at least it shows that the AE is still on the radar, no matter how faint the blip may be.
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For me personally, I'm so disgusted with the devs treatment of AE that I haven't been able to play AE arcs much at all. Just being in the AE building reminds me how their treating the story community and I end up being so frustrated I log out of the game for the night and go do something else.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
This change seems targeted directly at farmers. While I like the idea of making farming less profitable in theory, it also mean less access to the recipes and salvage that everyone else needs. With the exception of AE tickets I have never found a Kinetic Combat recipe, but I have found dozens of purple ones. One of the greatest strengths of AE was helping me obtain recipes that I had otherwise out-leveled, and would never drop. That option is still there, it'll just take longer.
If you want to target farmers, why don't you add a similar diminishing returns to the rewards given by enemies that only deal a single type of damage, FIRE in specific.
I would make it so that you can defeat a certain number of enemies in a row that deal one type of damage (or just single-out fire), before being subjected to diminishing returns. Farmers would then at least have to make some of the enemies deal a different type of damage, and at the very least we might see some diversity in the SS/Fire brutes.
I understand how some story arcs that were not even intended for farming could be hurt by this kind of change, but that applies to the diminished returns on ambushes as well.
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It also happens when you exit the hospital in iTrials so it's not that specific.|
Originally Posted by Garielle
Assuming that by "normal missions", you mean normal contacts, outside of MA, you still CAN do it on normal missions. The change was specific to MA.
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Clearly the devs want the inspiration tray size to mean something.
This change is good.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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*ding-ding-ding* Winner by knockout in the first round. Bug the maps. I've done this on both AE and regular maps. Some few have even gotten fixed...
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I can honestly say I have never, in my six years of playing this game, popped inspirations before entering a mission, inside AE or out.
Hot doors are a separate issue and those spawn points need to be removed, as well as ambushes that trigger as soon as the player enters the map, but they have nothing to do with inspiration use and I've encountered far more of them outside AE than in. |
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
The other 'easier' fix was to remove the inspiration vendors from AE. I'm glad they decided to take the more difficult route since, as FredrikSvanberg said, they did indeed want the inspiration tray size to mean something.
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The AE is still a fire aura plaything. You can still custom load a pack of enemies that have no chance against you and shove them in a quick to run map (the ever popular cargo ships) and cap your map tickets in a few minutes. |
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
just like to earn enough tickets to get orange salvage...and it was very theraputic to beat up on waves of bad guys.
Now that you have nerfed my way of gaining orange salvage, how in the blue blazes can I get some to drop in regular gameplay??? |
Even on a regular non-farm map you can earn enough tickets to get 3 pieces of rare salvage in 15 minutes or less. If that's all you're using it for, I promise you'll be ok.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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Roll 10 to 14 bronze instead. Sell drops. Buy oranges. It's more oranges per ticket than what you are currently doing.|
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Truth this.
Devs, not all of us players who have a /fire toon and enjoy the ambush farms are "farmers who charge 40 million a run with five purple sets and vengence" I just like to earn enough tickets to get orange salvage...and it was very theraputic to beat up on waves of bad guys. Now that you have nerfed my way of gaining orange salvage, how in the blue blazes can I get some to drop in regular gameplay??? When it comes to orange salvage after level 30 or so, the real number thingy hates all my toons guts. I get it very rarely. Lisa-Sad and bitter Panda |
Also, ambush farms are not any less therapeutic, they just reward less.
Dear devs.
Lol
Regards
Dirty Cheater Farmurs
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1234567890
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Originally Posted by mad umlauts
dear devs.
Lol regards dirty cheater farmurs |
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I wanted to be able to create a story, put it up on AE, and leave it there for people to play if they find it and enjoy it.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I find this kind of statement interesting. What is the goal of this "casual" story writer?
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I don't want to have to check the arc through every time there's a release because a map might have been removed or altered. I don't want to have to go through the arc with a fine toothcomb removing reference to Freakshow because some cack-handed filter system has rendered it unplayable. I don't want to have my custom enemies constantly messed with.
Writing the story was fun. Having to revise a published arc repeatedly because of AE changes that have nothing to do with improving its creative potential is annoying. So I wrote one arc, and I won't bother again.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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I have seen the idea of a flag expressed by others as well, and on the surface, it's a good idea. The problem with a "Story" tag is moderating it. Who would assign the tag? The author? People who play the arc?|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
I have to disagree with you on this. To me it shows that the devs have given the middle finger to the story players and writers. Just looking over the patch notes, and the 6 or 7 MA changes, did I see even ONE thing that helps story players/writers? Nope. Is even a simple fix, such as adding a Story Arc tag to an already existing tag system in the build? Nope. I'm sure stripping buffs and reducing rewards for ambushes took far more coding time that adding a new tag.
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If it's the authors and story arcs show up more frequently in search results, then what's to stop farm writers from marking their farms as stories in order to game the system? Have someone in charge of moderating use of the flag? If they are going to do that, why not have someone just lock the farms altogether? Initially, that's what they did, and they realized there was simply no way to keep up with the number of farms being put into the system, so human moderation isn't really an answer either.
Okay, so let's just reverse it. Have players have the ability to flag arcs as farms. The flaw there is, once again, if the story arcs get better search placement, what's to stop other authors (either farm authors OR story authors) from flagging a story arc as a farm just to get better placement for their own arc? Please keep in mind, this is the same system where story arcs already get 1 star ratings for not being farms.
Bottom line, if some people can see someway to game the system, they will. The whole reason the farms are in the MA system to begin with is people looking for the shortest, easiest, path from 1 to 50.
So what's the answer? Haven't figured that one out yet.
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Story arcs may get 1-starred, but it is not done by farmers. If even a small percentage of farmers decided to get together and 1-star story arcs, those story arcs would forever after be 1-star arcs, and have no chance of getting enough plays to ever be anything else, not knocked down to 4. The players 1-starring story arcs may farm, but they are the "children mad because Mommy spanked them for being bad so they're acting out" niche, not the farmer niche. And that is a very small group. (of course, "very small" is a term that applies to any number of things about them)|
Originally Posted by Garielle
I have seen the idea of a flag expressed by others as well, and on the surface, it's a good idea. The problem with a "Story" tag is moderating it. Who would assign the tag? The author? People who play the arc?
If it's the authors and story arcs show up more frequently in search results, then what's to stop farm writers from marking their farms as stories in order to game the system? Have someone in charge of moderating use of the flag? If they are going to do that, why not have someone just lock the farms altogether? Initially, that's what they did, and they realized there was simply no way to keep up with the number of farms being put into the system, so human moderation isn't really an answer either. Okay, so let's just reverse it. Have players have the ability to flag arcs as farms. The flaw there is, once again, if the story arcs get better search placement, what's to stop other authors (either farm authors OR story authors) from flagging a story arc as a farm just to get better placement for their own arc? Please keep in mind, this is the same system where story arcs already get 1 star ratings for not being farms. Bottom line, if some people can see someway to game the system, they will. The whole reason the farms are in the MA system to begin with is people looking for the shortest, easiest, path from 1 to 50. So what's the answer? Haven't figured that one out yet. |
Obviously some from this same niche would tag their farms as story arcs but I very much doubt most farmers would want to. Regardless, it would at least be a step that would, presumably, require very little coding time. If it gets invaded then it does, but at least it would show that they are trying, something they have failed to show for well over a year now.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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I don't think there's any "if" about it. There's no reason, looking at historical evidence, to expect that it would NOT be invaded. As for giving some indication that they are trying, I think that's part of the motivation for trying to rekickstart the "Devs Choice" arcs by selecting new "Devs Choice" arcs on a regular basis.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
Obviously some from this same niche would tag their farms as story arcs but I very much doubt most farmers would want to. Regardless, it would at least be a step that would, presumably, require very little coding time. If it gets invaded then it does, but at least it would show that they are trying, something they have failed to show for well over a year now.
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- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Which should have happened a long time ago. |
Originally Posted by Stormbird
With today's patch:
Any inspirations you take before going into a mission have their effects stripped. But only in AE. |
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| Now, before you start cheering and making "yay, we are fighting the evil farmer" remarks, remember this will also affect people dealing with boss fights and groups of difficult custom enemies in regular stories. |
I see nothing wrong with this change.
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Apparently the stealth-edited patch notes indicate it also affects external buffs. Hope you didn't plan on KEEPING that AB/RA/etc. for more than one mission... and hope the map wasn't small. |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Which should be something that happens once you are IN the mission.
I see nothing wrong with this change. |
How about you don't tell me "when I should be" using inspirations?
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
Me wonders if SG base buffs got hit too.
Behind The Veiled Mask
Arc# 526759
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The devs have told you, with this patch.
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Originally Posted by Stormbird
How about you don't tell me "when I should be" using inspirations?
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Good question. They're an "External buff."|
Originally Posted by Scheol
Me wonders if SG base buffs got hit too.
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Edit: Tested. They don't seem to be.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
It could be anything from "Mez heavy enemies" (grab a breakfree and take it before goign in so you don't get mezzed by something waiting at the door) to yellows (high-defense enemies, or a map with stealthed enemies) - top up again so you have enough to get through a longer map, then go in.
Getting swatted down at the door before my system has finished loading in got me to start doing that with some missions/groups. And with custom enemies in AE, as well.
I think there are also some mez resistance buffs, but they are, if memory serves, one type of mez resistance at a time. I'm pretty sure there's a +perception one as well, to help you with stealthed enemies.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.