Discussion: Issue 21: Convergence - November 10, 2011 [Live]
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-11-10 11:42 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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To put it succinctly, on every MMO I've worked on, that count is up to 4 now, the words Rollback also mean a loss of customer progression from the current time stamp to the point of restoration. This means the loss of every item/loot dropped, any experience or levels, any achievement earned...you get the point. |
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
I'm not saying your qualifications for what necessitates a Rollback are wrong or inadequate, but If my customers were to start asking, 'Why is my UI suddenly broken?', I'd personally roll back a production build back on that qualification alone. I'm not trying to grief you, Z or the devs, so please don't take it that.
Adding in the other bugs, which are at least character breaking if not game-breaking, it seems like a straightforward decision. I know that when I make major changes in a production environment, I keep a spreadsheet of essential steps necessary to back out a change. (This is usually reviewed a few times and gets devs, operators, and at least one manager to sign off on it.) Perhaps its time to consult such a spreadsheet if you guys have one? Hopefully you didn't make any irreversible database changes? I heard other folks on Victory trying to figure out how to reload their last window configuration. If you don't roll back, I would at the VERY least, set the GMOTD with instructions on how to reload their saved window configuration. -- Edit -- I just read the 'Possible Maintenance' post, Z. Thank you for announcing that! Again, I apologize if I sound like I'm howling. I'm certain you guys are getting it from all directions this evening and that it's as frustrating for you as it is for everyone else. |
In Game Development, because there are so many intertwined customer facing systems, there is rarely an elegant way to go in and completely pull out a feature or change. They can sometimes be disabled with a server side client command, but rarely, and I mean rarely, can they just be pulled out like a proverbial hair in the soup without significant risk.
When I tell you that a Rollback is srs bsnss, I'm not kidding.
And no, you're not howling. Questions are to be expected.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Did they reduce the recharge time on Chrono Shift.. that was in the test server notes but I dont see it on the live patch notes.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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UI bug? Reported.|
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Also, my personal belief is that not enough actual testing got done during this particular beta, which is why the update is missing one of its key components and so many other bugs are now popping up.
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Collection screen feedback? No changes based on player feedback.
Base Vs Player? Amusing, but I didn't see any reports.
Venessa? Well, reading the thread, she was reported and re-numbered #6.
Knockback bug? Yeah, too many people playing with Titan Weapons.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Okay, between all the doom and gloom regarding the UI bug -- which is a total game breaker for me as an alt-o-holic and (IMHO) a reason for a build rollback -- there have been a few things about this release to make me smile:
Base building love -- rotation and vertical placement? So far, so good, even though I can't do everything I'd imagined with it, so I'll just have to do some re-imagining....
Base VERSUS player bug: I totally want to build a danger room now, but I'm half expecting Murphy's Law to raise its ugly head. If I build a danger room tonight, they'll fix the bug tomorrow. If I don't ever build a danger room, the bug will get fixed in the first or second quarter of 2012. 
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Seriously??? I saw the wolf in the haunted house and thought "wow, that would be a cool pet!" But is it actually available now? I just looked in the Paragon Market, I looked on the NCSoft site, and I'm not finding it. (Yes, go ahead and laugh at me -- I've got no use for a mini-HVAS following my characters around, but I would be willing to shell out Paragon Points or a few bucks for a wolf. <shrugs> Okay, laugh at me AND point me in the right direction to find it?)|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Focus on the wolf pet. Oooh look. Buy it. Give us your money.
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But also seriously -- please either fix the bug TOMORROW or else roll the build back -- rollbacks around here aren't unheard of, and they've been done to fix issues that haven't affected every single player each time they log in.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
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Knockback bug? Yeah, too many people playing with Titan Weapons. |
This is why we can't have nice things....
*is glad I only made a TW/EA Scrap but only played him for 1 radio mission so I can't be lumped into those that were TW'ing everything up*
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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If you guys had done a rollback during the first few hours of the new release, there wouldn't have been very much customer progression or items/loot dropped. I'm assuming it went live at the usual Thursday maintenance time, which means that most of the US playerbase was at school, work, or whatever. |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
To put it succinctly, on every MMO I've worked on, that count is up to 4 now, the words Rollback also mean a loss of customer progression from the current time stamp to the point of restoration. This means the loss of every item/loot dropped, any experience or levels, any achievement earned...you get the point.
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And besides, we were all too busy fixing our UI's when we logged in to actually go arrest anything, get expees and/or drops.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
On the BVP bug...
It seems to be affecting only Villain Bases. I've chatted with another player on Victory who's villain base is attacking (and attackable), but not a hero.
The same is true for me. The items in my hero base are all flagged 'Ally', but the items in my villain base are attackable.
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That would be the best change they can do to bases.|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Seriously, Zwil, just sayin', but BvP? I know it's a bug right now, and I know that in its current form it should prolly be swatted, but still...MAKE IT SO. I am sticking a Danger Room in my base this afternoon. I am sooooo not kidding.
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Hostile bases we can make...the possibilities are cool and endless. Stumbled upon a goldmine I tell you!
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I've seen 5, maybe 6 rollbacks on this game. Usually they are caught and executed in a matter of hours. Though one time the rollback was 3 days.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
To put it succinctly, on every MMO I've worked on, that count is up to 4 now, the words Rollback also mean a loss of customer progression from the current time stamp to the point of restoration. This means the loss of every item/loot dropped, any experience or levels, any achievement earned...you get the point.
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One additional time didn't really matter because it was during Issue 18 closed beta, and sort of expected. It took a week to get the beta back.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
When I tell you that a Rollback is srs bsnss, I'm not kidding.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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The German Shepard Pet is on the Beta server.
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Originally Posted by Eldorado
Seriously??? I saw the wolf in the haunted house and thought "wow, that would be a cool pet!" But is it actually available now? I just looked in the Paragon Market, I looked on the NCSoft site, and I'm not finding it. (Yes, go ahead and laugh at me -- I've got no use for a mini-HVAS following my characters around, but I would be willing to shell out Paragon Points or a few bucks for a wolf. <shrugs> Okay, laugh at me AND point me in the right direction to find it?)
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Are the changes to knockback a feature or a bug?
For teaming it is a great change, but for solo I can see some people disappointed.
WTH !!!! i cant play my Street Justice character ???!!!!! I log on and the game tells me I cant play my level 35 Street Justice character because I dont have access to the powerset ??!!! I bought it and played it to 35!!!!!!
Worst release EVER people.. EVER !!!!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Have to do more testing, but kb issue seems more of a decimal point issue if anything. Scaling seems odd but predictable against different leveled targets. Didnt this happen in the past, long ago.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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Im still hoping for the ability to selectivelt turn knockback off.. I love it on my NRG Blaster.. hate it on my PB's Foot Stomp.. oh sorry Solar Flare...
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Is the changes to knockback a feature or a bug?
For teaming it is a great change, but for solo I can see some people disappointed. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Worked for, subtle difference I know but you are not a developer now are you?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
To put it succinctly, on every MMO I've worked on, that count is up to 4 now, the words Rollback also mean a loss of customer progression from the current time stamp to the point of restoration. This means the loss of every item/loot dropped, any experience or levels, any achievement earned...you get the point.
In Game Development, because there are so many intertwined customer facing systems, there is rarely an elegant way to go in and completely pull out a feature or change. They can sometimes be disabled with a server side client command, but rarely, and I mean rarely, can they just be pulled out like a proverbial hair in the soup without significant risk. When I tell you that a Rollback is srs bsnss, I'm not kidding. And no, you're not howling. Questions are to be expected. |
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Another odd bug: I had a character suddenly lose any kind of access to the global server. He couldn't get global names or receive global tells or messages from global channels. However, others could see the messages he was sending and could send him local tells in response.
I relogged and suddenly got a load of queued global tells from people telling me that it showed I was 'offline'.
Mind you, this happened in the middle of a conversation with no changes to my settings.
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Well, Zwillinger was asking for confirmation of it which does imply it wasn't intended. And for the record I hate the idea.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Is the changes to knockback a feature or a bug?
For teaming it is a great change, but for solo I can see some people disappointed. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Can anyone else confirm that this is occurring for them?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Thanks guys,
I've forwarded the Knockback issue along. |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Worked on.|
Originally Posted by Stalk_obot_EU
Worked for, subtle difference I know but you are not a developer now are you?
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I have always been a Community Manager in a development studio, never in a publishing house.
Do I touch the code? No.
Does OCR contribute to the development of the game? Yes.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Very surprised this was released today, on a Thursday, with changes announced for the beta that hasn't even hit the beta server yet.
The UI bug is highly annoying too.
Sucks that several of the new Interfaces are going to be doubled at some future date and this is already out.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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This actually happened to someone on my server earlier this week. So that's One bad thing that happened today that likely wasn't a result of what I will now always refer to as the disaster-patch |
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Another odd bug: I had a character suddenly lose any kind of access to the global server. He couldn't get global names or receive global tells or messages from global channels. However, others could see the messages he was sending and could send him local tells in response.
I relogged and suddenly got a load of queued global tells from people telling me that it showed I was 'offline'. Mind you, this happened in the middle of a conversation with no changes to my settings. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I'm not saying everythings peachy keen, because there's certainly some serious issues, however it's not quite Rollback severity.
The word Rollback has very, very serious implications when you're talking about a live product. |
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Originally Posted by Eldorado
If you guys had done a rollback during the first few hours of the new release, there wouldn't have been very much customer progression or items/loot dropped. I'm assuming it went live at the usual Thursday maintenance time, which means that most of the US playerbase was at school, work, or whatever.
And besides, we were all too busy fixing our UI's when we logged in to actually go arrest anything, get expees and/or drops. |
), saw this thread, and haven't logged in. I saw the mess the UI bug made on beta....that's why we all reported it....weeks ago on beta. It doesn't even just shuffle your current stuff around, it opens and closes windows etc. Lots of people have stated they aren't logging in until bug x is fixed, I doubt there'd be an uproar over a possible rollback.I'm up for one, this patch was nothing short of a disaster. And it's not even like the showstopping bugs were a surprise that popped up when the build was migrated to Live, they've been on beta for a month and reported and you guys(Devs in general not Zwill lol) just moved them to live anyway
. And honestly it's not like the publish came with a bunch of great content we'd be losing for a few days from the rollback(zones, trials, new incarnate power types(not branches)), I'm sure nobody would cry about the AE stealthNerf being rolled back for the weekend 
Lol.Edit: My point was all of these bugs were reported, people wouldn't be asking for a rollback if these bugs weren't knowingly migrated to live on purpose in the first place. I can't think of any new content that isn't broken that was important enough to push live today and drag all the bugs with it....unless the devs are gonna blame it all on wanting the ambushes fixed nao, but did MARTy really have tell them about that for them to realize it was being used? Ambushes have been being (ab)used for years....
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
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I just did exactly this last week for fun..... could be interesting next time I go to my base |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I can't possibly imagine it staying like it is, but yeah, a lot of folks I know are going to love the KB bug.
I'm glad I didn't add any PvP defensive items to my base for decorative purposes. >.> |
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Create a new room type so they only work in that room... a lot of people will be happy!
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
That would be the best change they can do to bases.
Hostile bases we can make...the possibilities are cool and endless. Stumbled upon a goldmine I tell you! |
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Originally Posted by JayboH
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Sucks that several of the new Interfaces are going to be doubled at some future date and this is already out. |
Wait...what?
I don't remember seeing anything that said the interfaces were going to get buffed...
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
OK, let me address this a succinctly as I can...
1. AE Changes... Enough is Enough, you already put in an arbitrary monitor system with which to discontinue character growth over a certain potential... Please take back the nerfs on AE and let us fight with MARTy if need be... I know I have ran those farms that got nerfed, and frankly, never ONCE HIT MARTY! so why is it getting nerfed when we aren't breaking your speed limit?
2. Busted Knockback... how DID this happen... I mean really...
3. New Incarnate Powers, hurrah...
4. Bases attacking players... if we are not going to get raids back up and running, can we please make this an optional piece of permanet content... I am imagining an ability to toggle base to aggressive or non-aggressive for the Base Leader, and we can use it to train in tactics etc...
5. Why are you breaking my costumes! Stop It!
6. No Titan Weapons yet? Gah!
7. Buff to Defender Fire blast and fixing the LEague targetting issues, hurrah...
8. New tool for base building that's great, why give it to use when it's broken though?
Ok, those are my thoughts on this, rather interesting new patch..
"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...
Going to miss the fun and nice people here at CoH. Feel free to add me on PS3/XBox360
PS3X360: OmniNogard
Currently playing: Mass Effect 3(PS3) Minecraft(X360) Skyrim(X360).