People on the global channel I hang out on have heard me complain about this one.
"So I'm in the middle of a pile of Devouring Earth/Banished Pantheon/annoying rock monsters/other generally omnicidal foe. And there's a Void just chilling. What's with that?"
Not necessarily those exact words, but still. Sometimes it just makes no sense.
-Morgan.
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Ummm...I think I found it. |
Originally Posted by Bionut911
Maybe you should find a thread for little kids, where that is more appropriate
 |
This is an old problem. Even worse, to my mind, are cysts appearing in random missions. You can almost handwave Voids appearing... like they're bounty hunting for you wherever you go. But cysts? The lore is quite clear that they are RARE, and the nictus in them are fragile. There is no reason one should appear with Director 11 in Tin Mage... the Director 11 that is a head of Malta and wants to control or curtail all meta-human operations. Same thing for cysts popping with Praetorian mobs... Cole had no reason to want to work with the Nictus before recent story events showed why he is invading, which gives him even stronger reasons not to want to work with them.
All of those above happened to me, by the way. The ambush mob in a Moonfire that had a cyst was stupid, too (yeah, that cyst will really chase them down!), but at least that was with a Council group.
I wish the devs would take the time to care and do something about this, as it really is silly. And by care, I mean actually do something about it. I'm sure they can see the sillyness, but that hasn't changed this in years.
I will be hopeful Kheldians do fit in the Batallion storyline, though. They did it for the Imperious TF, so it would make sense for them to do so here.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
...?
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Originally Posted by Crysys
Ummm...I think I found it.
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Quote:
That was supposed to be an insult. It was kind of sad, really.
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
...?
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Quote:
It's because you're being *intentionally* obtuse, I'm shelving the derisiveness.|
Originally Posted by houtex
From this:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Void_Hunters "The Void Hunters are a special mercenary group created by the Council of Nictus to combat the growing Peacebringer/Warshade threat currently growing in Paragon City. The Council have been hiring them out to other groups to help deal with their Kheldian enemies, as well as to make a slight profit. For those who don't want to deal with the Council's mercenaries, they sell Quantum Array Guns, thus creating the "Quantum Faction" to each villain group." I.e., Voids are *mercanaries.* You are being *targeted*, as a Kheldian. They want you dead, and they don't care where you are, hence they show up where you are. The Quantums are there because the factions what have the guns know of Kheldians and want to get them too... or, simply put, it's a gun. Someone's gonna buy it. It still hurts others, regardless of Kheldian or not. And it looks bad ***. I'd want one.  |
Odds are high it could be lost on you anyway...
Reading is *still* a struggle for you, isn't it?
If it weren't, you'd have understood that I haven't seen *any* Quants in First Ward.
Secondly, I highlighted the key point of your definition... Actually, I agree with it,
they ARE mercs - in PC -- but WHO would be hiring them in First Ward - you *do*
understand that First Ward isn't even on *our* planet, right???
Anyway, as mentioned, you're being deliberately obtuse, so we'll just leave it at that.
What I'm *hoping* is that the Devs are less dumb than you are acting, and actually
re-visit the issue, especially now that the AT is being SOLD to players.
As Pilgrim mentions, this issue is OLD - I b*****d about it way back in I-4, but
these new circumstances really force me to raise it again.
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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Lore needs to be fixed then, because one of the Resistance has Kheld powers, believe it's Dr. Healix...|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
The second biggest thing which goes back to one of your points is that according to lore, Kheldians don't exist in Praetoria. If they don't have Khelds, why do they have Voids? |
As for trying to make sense of Voids in FW, there's some loose ends that should be tightened up, but we know the Council will travel back in time, not much to stop them from portal hoping to another dimension and plant some seeds in Praetoria. I can make sense of them being in any human mob not Talons of Vengeance, maybe Ghouls...if they operate on the alpha male mentality, a Void could show it's dominance and the Ghouls would back off.
I'm just going to chime in here and say I agree that the technology for when to spawn Voids and Quants needs to be revisited. With how the Khelds are tied into the Battalion, I'd like to think it's coming. Maybe they'll come with their own anti-Kheld measures, trying to capture us rather than killing us (not that I'm inviting more kryptonite enemies, just an either/or for the spawns).
Either way, given how involved Khelds are with the Coming Storm, I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes when we come to fighting the Battalion. I love the Kheldian story and I really hope that it gets some attention in upcoming issues. (However, given that Kheldian Incarnates is a mess of lore anyway, I'm not holding my breath... 
).
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Quote:
I can't think of any storyline reason for a void to appear with any Praetorian mobs, actually. Voids are mercenaries, and Cole wants nothing to do with anyone that is not under his control. He NEEDS to have control over everything to show Hami up. Resistance doesn't have any reason to check out what Voids have to offer, either. If anything, such collaboration could throw off potential other dimension support.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Lore needs to be fixed then, because one of the Resistance has Kheld powers, believe it's Dr. Healix...
As for trying to make sense of Voids in FW, there's some loose ends that should be tightened up, but we know the Council will travel back in time, not much to stop them from portal hoping to another dimension and plant some seeds in Praetoria. I can make sense of them being in any human mob not Talons of Vengeance, maybe Ghouls...if they operate on the alpha male mentality, a Void could show it's dominance and the Ghouls would back off. |
The devs even went to the trouble of not allowing any EAT to start in Praetoria. That alone signifies issues with putting voids with any Praetorian mobs. I do have an idea for an StJ/EA Brute to start in Praetoria that is really a Peacebringer in disguise, but I'm leaving the how of the Kheldian getting to Praetoria loose. Perhaps the human he was with came from the CoH dimension, etc.
I am somewhat curious about where War Walkers derive their powers. When they drop, they clearly make a Peacebringer power sound. But that's as likely to come from the devs cross-purposing sound use as it is from a real story reason.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
If they ever removed Cysts, I would be a very, very, very, very, very, very sad person.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
With the recent PB changes, I can solo at +8 now, so I encounter Cysts quite often while soloing these days, and it still blows my mind that this 'feature' still exists after all this time. Of course, it is pretty cool that I can take out a Cysts solo these days while being in the middle of a +8 spawn |
Very.
"Alien"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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I don't see any lore reason why a Kheldian can't be an Incarnate. Incarnates get their power from the Well of the Furies, and Kheldian ATs are half human. So really, there isn't a reason why the human half can't gain powers from the Well just as easily as everyone else.
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Originally Posted by Dante
I'm just going to chime in here and say I agree that the technology for when to spawn Voids and Quants needs to be revisited. With how the Khelds are tied into the Battalion, I'd like to think it's coming. Maybe they'll come with their own anti-Kheld measures, trying to capture us rather than killing us (not that I'm inviting more kryptonite enemies, just an either/or for the spawns).
Either way, given how involved Khelds are with the Coming Storm, I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes when we come to fighting the Battalion. I love the Kheldian story and I really hope that it gets some attention in upcoming issues. (However, given that Kheldian Incarnates is a mess of lore anyway, I'm not holding my breath... ). |
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
Quote:
I'd dismiss this as sound effect recycling as well, except that when Warwalkers explode they also emit bursts of distinctively Peacebringer-coloured energy as well. Remember what Twilight's Son said about the captivity of his/her people?
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I am somewhat curious about where War Walkers derive their powers. When they drop, they clearly make a Peacebringer power sound. But that's as likely to come from the devs cross-purposing sound use as it is from a real story reason.
|
"He may be arrogant, but he happens to be correct" - Ellis
"The server is full of crazies" - New_Dark_Age
Rainbow Arcana / Diamond D: Legion of Freedom - Virtue
lof.guildportal.com
Quote:
I take your point, I think it just doesn't quite hang right for me. Kheldians run for 50 levels without ever touching the Well, they're two separate paths to power. I think I'd be happier if there was some Kheld specific dialogue options explaining why this alien being needs to seek out the Well but then I think there's needed to be Kheld specific dialogue in lots of parts of the game. It just feels like poor design to me. |
Originally Posted by Vauluur
I don't see any lore reason why a Kheldian can't be an Incarnate. Incarnates get their power from the Well of the Furies, and Kheldian ATs are half human. So really, there isn't a reason why the human half can't gain powers from the Well just as easily as everyone else.
|
Still, as you say, WS and PBs are half human so there is a connection.
I hadn't noticed the sounds and FX of War Walkers, I'm going to have to watch out for that next time. I did run a plot with my SG a while ago that had the Council experimenting with using enslaved Peacebringers and powers sources for their weapons. It put an interesting twist on the ITF, that's for sure. Who knows what experiments the Council have put PBs through under Mount Richardson?
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Quote:
Is it your IOd lvl50/Incarnate Khelds that fill that way? Do your Lowbie Khelds on a team trying to beat a difficult boss with a Cyst spawning right beside him feel the same?|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
If they ever removed Cysts, I would be a very, very, very, very, very, very sad person.
Very. "Alien" |
My Incarnate PB eats Cysts for lunch, even solo. But when I was lower level, I remember not being able to complete a TF and many missions (and the team's gripes) because of a badly placed Cyst.
Quote:
What's even worse is when two (2!) of these things show up in the PPD arc in the middle of those gigantic spawns of Equalizers and Ghosts, when there are no Khelds on the team and no one is expecting these things to show up at all, and half the team doesn't even know what they are.|
Originally Posted by Socorro
Totally agree. And we still have those good ol' Cysts.
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On a low- to mid-level team a cyst can turn a tough mission into a total nightmare. It's a bug that they can show up on teams that no longer have any khelds, because they don't make any sense being there in the first place.
Quote:
eat inspirations and spike it?
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Originally Posted by Socorro
But when I was lower level, I remember not being able to complete a TF and many missions (and the team's gripes) because of a badly placed Cyst.
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Quote:
That's putting a bandaid over the engine light. The problem is as much conceptual as is it difficult. The difficulty can be overcome if we're stubborn enough, but lorewise the things are never going to feel right.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
eat inspirations and spike it?
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Quote:
Was this before the Cyst nerf? I recall them being a challenge a long time ago, but as they are now they're only somewhat amusing in difficulty. (Totally agree on the silly placement part though.)
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Originally Posted by Socorro
But when I was lower level, I remember not being able to complete a TF and many missions (and the team's gripes) because of a badly placed Cyst.
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Quote:
Yeah, that's what it has made me think of as well. I know a lot of people like to hate on the Khelds, but the devs have made use of them in a few different storylines. They didn't have to make the PPD in the Apex TF be Kheldians, either, so I'm wondering if that was a purposeful choice, given all the War Walkers in that mission.|
Originally Posted by Rainbow Avenger
I'd dismiss this as sound effect recycling as well, except that when Warwalkers explode they also emit bursts of distinctively Peacebringer-coloured energy as well. Remember what Twilight's Son said about the captivity of his/her people?
|
Anyway, I hope that is followed through somehow. It would be intriguing to see what happens.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Socorro
That's putting a bandaid over the engine light. The problem is as much conceptual as is it difficult. The difficulty can be overcome if we're stubborn enough, but lorewise the things are never going to feel right.
|
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I don't think War Walkers are Kheld-powered. While Twilight's Son did say his people were captured, that was done by the Battalion not the Praetorians. Also, it was apparently Twilight's Son's own doing - according to the "letter writer".
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian
I have to agree with everything the OP has said.
It's pretty much every reason I have refused to play a PB.
Iv'e never played a game where such a mechanic was present.
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Edit: Apologies if anyone's toes got stepped on.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Quote:
Er... what does their being human, half human or alien have to do with it? The Well seeks out will, not humanity. Why should there be Kheld-specific dialog for it when there's not specific dialog for a Mutant, or for my alien scrapper, or for my demoness, or for my robot mastermind (as in, he himself is a robot?) |
Originally Posted by Dante
I take your point, I think it just doesn't quite hang right for me. Kheldians run for 50 levels without ever touching the Well, they're two separate paths to power. I think I'd be happier if there was some Kheld specific dialogue options explaining why this alien being needs to seek out the Well but then I think there's needed to be Kheld specific dialogue in lots of parts of the game. It just feels like poor design to me.
Still, as you say, WS and PBs are half human so there is a connection. |
And no, I don't think the war walkers are Kheldian powered. It's just effects being recycled. If they were indicated as being powered by kheldians, I think whatsisname who did the lore guide would have updated it like he did for the kheldian warp bit. (I like my khelds and the stories behind them, and RPing them, so I watch for things like that to get updated.)
As far as cysts, my khelds aren't 50 or IOd out and they just don't see these as big deals. If inspirations are a "band aid" then there's a LOT in the game that needs them, since "Stock up and eat inspirations" or "Eat purps and reds" is a pretty common piece of advice on the boards and in game.
Completely agree with OP.
The most hilariously placed Void spawn i've ever had though is when it spawned at the start of mission chilling with Statesman, who went on to state how he's been watching me as the void proceeded to knock me on my ***
PS - where is the lore stating Khelds dont exist in praetoria? Did the nictus just never come to earth, or..?
small words, since simple paragraphs seem to constitute a "wall-o-text" for you.
The issue isn't how they got there *physically*.
It's evident you haven't actually been to First Ward, or reading comprehension
failed you there as well as here.
First Ward is a *prison*. Nobody there is affiliated with the political power base in
Praetoria. All of the detained are Praetorians sent there by other Praetorians,
presumably in a Stalinesque political housecleaning.
So, the issue isn't "how" but WHY. Why would the Council give a Rat's Patootie
about First Ward? Why would they sent elite troops to a world they have no vested
interest in to battle Khelds there?
That would be akin to the US sending Navy Seals to Russia to assist Soviet dissidents
in the Gulag - never gonna happen.
As for me being there, I was invited. So, who would be inviting Voids?
Apparitions?
Ghouls?
D.E.?
Really? If so, I'd like to talk to you about some property I have for sale...
That's the direct response to your rationalization...
Far more important to me however, is the game issue.
The factions involved have backstories and alliances, and very simply put, many of
those are directly conflicting with the very concept of a Void being among them.
That same issue is problematic for Paragon City as well, but First Ward being
new content really emphasized just how jarring to the story Voids are in those
situations.
4
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Void_Hunters
"The Void Hunters are a special mercenary group created by the Council of Nictus to combat the growing Peacebringer/Warshade threat currently growing in Paragon City. The Council have been hiring them out to other groups to help deal with their Kheldian enemies, as well as to make a slight profit. For those who don't want to deal with the Council's mercenaries, they sell Quantum Array Guns, thus creating the "Quantum Faction" to each villain group."
I.e., Voids are *mercanaries.* You are being *targeted*, as a Kheldian. They want you dead, and they don't care where you are, hence they show up where you are.
The Quantums are there because the factions what have the guns know of Kheldians and want to get them too... or, simply put, it's a gun. Someone's gonna buy it. It still hurts others, regardless of Kheldian or not. And it looks bad ***. I'd want one.
Jarring or not because of your feelings upon the issue, the lore still works. But hey, I'm ok with you not likin' it.
/oh, and btw, bring on the derisiveness. I can take it.
//And that's still a pretty decent wall-o-text as a reply... not that mine's not now... ah well.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012