Halloween TF teaming question.


Agent White

 

Posted

Why oh why did they develop the halloween tf to be put through the queue system?
What was wrong with just having teams form up or make it sg/vg events?

First tf other 2 toons not interested in getting badges namely the Abomination/zombies in 12 minutes. Tried queue with friends got seperated, I mean c'mon also is the 4 person min/max team thing getting fixed? Why not 8 person?

Had a friend who got stuck on a team that couldn't even kill all the zombies(he was only damage dealer), he is really not impressed with the luck of the draw teaming system, and I have to agree.

While I like the tf it would nice if it wasn't put forth in a constrictive way. Sorry to rant but I do not get it, am I missing something? Is there another way to run it with who I want to team with?


 

Posted

I haven't done it yet, but doesn't it work like other trials.

I mean, get 4 people in the same zone and form a group.
Then the leader joins the queue and selects a closed league.

That doesn't solve the 4-and-only-4 stupidity, but you should be able to play with the people you want.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Larker View Post
Why oh why did they develop the halloween tf to be put through the queue system?
What was wrong with just having teams form up or make it sg/vg events?

First tf other 2 toons not interested in getting badges namely the Abomination/zombies in 12 minutes. Tried queue with friends got seperated, I mean c'mon also is the 4 person min/max team thing getting fixed? Why not 8 person?

Had a friend who got stuck on a team that couldn't even kill all the zombies(he was only damage dealer), he is really not impressed with the luck of the draw teaming system, and I have to agree.

While I like the tf it would nice if it wasn't put forth in a constrictive way. Sorry to rant but I do not get it, am I missing something? Is there another way to run it with who I want to team with?
If you create and join with pre-assembled team, don't you all go in at once and together? So you if already had a team with your friends and all queued up, don't you all go together?

I thought that was part of the reason everyone teamed up before hitting the iTrials, so that we didn't get separated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
I haven't done it yet, but doesn't it work like other trials.

I mean, get 4 people in the same zone and form a group.
Then the leader joins the queue and selects a closed league.

That doesn't solve the 4-and-only-4 stupidity, but you should be able to play with the people you want.
Wait, it's exactly 4? Really? Wow, that's stupid. Unless there is some rooms in there like the old (and hated) "push two buttons within seconds of each other" missions. Which would be a terrible reason to require exactly 4 people. "Each person stands in a separate corner of the room..." That would just be terrible.


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Posted

It's a minimum of four as well? I know they said the max was four due to the level design, but didn't realize they made it exactly four


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Posted

Something else that is biased against the solo player, not that I'm against teaming you understand but of late everything 'new' they bring out requires a team to do it. On the quieter servers a team is sometimes quite hard to find and if one plays out of hours as well, soloing is the only option.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby View Post
Something else that is biased against the solo player, not that I'm against teaming you understand but of late everything 'new' they bring out requires a team to do it. On the quieter servers a team is sometimes quite hard to find and if one plays out of hours as well, soloing is the only option.
It's a *trial*. By definition it's for teams.


To the OP: Create your own team of four and have the leader sign up for the trial and you all will be together.


To all: It's 4 min/max for balance purposes.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
It's a *trial*. By definition it's for teams.
You need to look up the definition of "definition".


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
To all: It's 4 min/max for balance purposes.
Not buying this at all. We all know that some characters easily run missions on xA/+B, where B is certainly NOT equal to 1. One character can easily be equal to more than 4 characters when it comes to "balance". Just as, in some cases, four characters can have difficulty with things "balanced" for four characters, depending on what exactly they are running and what they run into.

And how exactly did they come up with the magical number of exactly 4 for this? Three was too little, but 5 was just entirely too much? Come on...


CoH has been unique in the sea of cloned MMOs.There are years of possibilities still
in such a well designed, well supported and well loved game.Shutting it down now doesn't
make sense on any level except, perhaps, on some spreadsheet�s bottom line. I do not
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calls into question why I would want to be part of any further ventures involving NCSoft.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightbender View Post
Not buying this at all. We all know that some players easily run missions on xA/+B, where B is certainly NOT equal to 1. One player can easily be equal to more than 4 players when it comes to "balance". Just as, in some cases, four players can have difficulty with things "balanced" for four players, depending on what exactly they are running and what they run into.

And how exactly did they come up with the magical number of exactly 4 for this? Three was too little, but 5 was just entirely too much? Come on...
Fixed that for you.

For the record the devs are not responsible for player incompetence.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Fixed that for you.

For the record the devs are not responsible for player incompetence.

Let's be honest. Not all archetypes are created equal. Clearly a group of defenders isn't necessarily going to have the same impact as a team of tanks, now would it? That doesn't signify player incompetence. And truthfully, scaling a team's dynamic by size hasn't really been an issue in the past. Considering the extraordinary number of random missions floating around this game that can accommodate various numbers of players, it's kind of hard to say that a four man mini/max limit was an absolute necessity.


 

Posted

Ok first off, I see nothing wrong with this Trial, Second there nothing wrong with the LFG it up for this Trial, It works just fine and I had no issues with the teams when i am playing on Virtue.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Player D View Post
Let's be honest. Not all archetypes are created equal. Clearly a group of defenders isn't necessarily going to have the same impact as a team of tanks, now would it?
Clearly, you've never been on an all defender team.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbaby View Post
but of late everything 'new' they bring out requires a team to do it.
Things since Freedom that require a team:
-Underground
-Haunted House
-Death from Below

Things since Freedom that don't require a team:
-SSAs
-First Ward
-Ongoing training arcs

I feel like I'm missing some things in those lists, but can't think of what.
I'd say that, depending on how you value each of those things, the solo player has at least gotten a pretty fair share. And I say this as someone who plays at odd hours and usually goes solo.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFIame View Post
Ok first off, I see nothing wrong with this Trial, Second there nothing wrong with the LFG it up for this Trial, It works just fine and I had no issues with the teams when i am playing on Virtue.
Me too, my Plant/Emp logged in yesterday, joined the queue and ran the Trial with 3 other randomers without too much hassle. The last chap was tricky on our poor brute, with his special attacks, there was lots of rezzing involved there, but other than that it went smoothly.

I did miss not being able to AB people and I had no single target attack chain but it was still pretty enjoyable.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Things since Freedom that require a team:
-Underground
-Haunted House
-Death from Below

Things since Freedom that don't require a team:
-SSAs
-First Ward
-Ongoing training arcs

I feel like I'm missing some things in those lists, but can't think of what.
I'd say that, depending on how you value each of those things, the solo player has at least gotten a pretty fair share. And I say this as someone who plays at odd hours and usually goes solo.

Gotta disagree with your conclusion, and side with War on this one.. I don't dispute your examples (however I slightly disagree with first ward, as it seems to favor teams, but I'll give it to you anyhow), however, just look at it different than you. Your lists show 3 and 3. But, of the 3 that don't require a team that you mention, all 3 can be run as a team, and at least 2 of the 3 work just fine as a team. Of the 3 that require, well, none can be run solo... So, at least 1/2 the new content is totally inaccessible to a solo player, while 100% is available as an option for a team..

I'd say that's not the fairest way to do it.

I know, it's a MMO, and thus a 'team' game, and accept that. And I want teaming to be encouraged. But maybe 2/3 - 1/3 split, or 75% - 25% even, would be more optimal.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
Gotta disagree with your conclusion, and side with War on this one.. I don't dispute your examples (however I slightly disagree with first ward, as it seems to favor teams, but I'll give it to you anyhow), however, just look at it different than you. Your lists show 3 and 3. But, of the 3 that don't require a team that you mention, all 3 can be run as a team, and at least 2 of the 3 work just fine as a team. Of the 3 that require, well, none can be run solo... So, at least 1/2 the new content is totally inaccessible to a solo player, while 100% is available as an option for a team..

I'd say that's not the fairest way to do it.

I know, it's a MMO, and thus a 'team' game, and accept that. And I want teaming to be encouraged. But maybe 2/3 - 1/3 split, or 75% - 25% even, would be more optimal.
War said "all". If even one thing can be run solo, then it is not "all". And while teams can run the solo stuff, that's not the point and never will be. If you want a solo game, go buy a console, this is a MMO. It assumes teaming just like all others in the genre. It also has lots of activity for people to do solo. Some soloists have managed to do team stuff (like the people with solo master of badges, including the Doms who get solo master of recluse and Statesman TFs).

I duo'd the haloween trial after two left. and my partner could have solo'd it. I dunno, I play 90% solo except for trials and stuff and when my buddies are online (I'm 9 hours off from their timezone so we don't see eachother online a lot) and I still have no problems witht eh mix of team vs solo content.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Completely reworded that for you.
Why yes, yes you did. Character != Player. I, as a player, have level 50s that can slaughter things well past x1/+4, as well as 50s who actually have a hard time with x1/-1. More than one of those "more powerful" characters run all or very close to all SO's and no incarnate abilities, so it's not some kind of "min/max" issue. And putting four of those "weaker" characters together would only make a larger stain on the floor. Some characters (not players) are simply better than others at both survival and dishing out damage. Yes, players behind the characters do make a difference. But you put someone "not very good" with a tank against someone "really amazing" with a tricycle and a stick against each other and see how things turn out.

Surely you understand that, and that was the point. "4 characters" is not a way to balance anything. I would be more likely to believe that there is a room or two that more than 4 characters just didn't fit well into, or some technical limitation. But saying it's for "balance"... there is 7 years of CoH to prove that statement wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
For the record the devs are not responsible for player incompetence.
I have no idea how understanding that a well designed duo or team of three (or even one character) can be better than a mismatched PUG of 4+ characters could be considered "player incompetence". Please explain.

And, "for the record", they are responsible for player incompetance to a degree. It's part of developing, testing, QCing, tech writing... heck, MAKING any software. Incompetance can wreck more than just that one player's experience, which could result in more than just the loss of that one player. Devs have the responsibility, both to thier employers and us, to minimize player incompetence (well written explanations of mechanics, few "simply bad" player choices, etc) and the effects of player incompetence (ability to refuse TPs, kicking a player out of a queued league if they don't click the green button, etc).


CoH has been unique in the sea of cloned MMOs.There are years of possibilities still
in such a well designed, well supported and well loved game.Shutting it down now doesn't
make sense on any level except, perhaps, on some spreadsheet�s bottom line. I do not
consider this an act of a company that has the interests of its customers at heart.This
calls into question why I would want to be part of any further ventures involving NCSoft.

 

Posted

Okay for the record ...

It is absolutely possible to build your own team and enter the queue to do Dr. Kane's Halloween Trial. Two nights ago along with three friends we formed a team, tot'd to get the necessary costumes, and then entered the queue as a 4 man team and arrived INTACT at the stairs leading to the haunted mansion. Example two.. tonight along with two other sg mates we entered the queue and the LFG assigned us a 4th member.

it is possible to earn all three badges .. however I would strongly suggest building a team and queuing to get "It's Alive" (the badge for defeating 99 zombies and the Abomination within 12 minutes. I have been on three attempts at this and one was a success.

The successful team consisted of a tank, 2 brutes and a defender with heals and buffs. We pulled the abomination into the graves so that all 4 of us were running over top of them and spawning the zombies and while the tank held aggro and did some damage to the AV the rest of us killed zombies as fast as possible.. we completed with about 1 minute to spare.

Attempt 2 was with my SG mates.... A Warshade (me), a brute, a blaster and a defender with good debuffs (rad/rad). My warshade acted as tank while the others spawned and defeated zombies. We had some minor communication problems to start .. I was trying to pull the AV into the graves and th brute was attacking. Once we got that straightened out all 4 of us were in the graveyard spawning zombies. We did manage to defeat 99 but with only 4 attacks my Warshade only had the AV down to about 45% and we ran out of time before we defeated.... We did defeat it about 1 minute later so if we hadn't had that slight mix up at the start i'd be 2 for 3.

Attempt number 3 was just awful.. my friend and i joined the queue and teamed with two unknown players. We were both on our Beam weapon/time corruptors and I can't honestly recall what the others had.. One was a melee character. The melee player was obviously only interested in one thing. getting to the end and trying for the third badge (again). He raced ahead of the rest of us probably hoping to bi-pass everything else and att us to the end. Problem was he wasn't that strong and died and had to hit the hospital. The three of us continued to work our way through the mansion and he joined us and then asked to try for the third badge. Having already completed it with my friends i explained the strategy we used that worked and we agreed to give it a try. Suprisingly the melee player did a decent job of keeping the AV off of us but never did manage to pull it injto the graveyard and with only 3 of us spawning zombie we simply ran out of time with about 90 defeated.. then defeated the AV to complete the trial

So suggestions based on what I have seen to earn all three badges...

Form a team don't expect to do it with a PUG . not saying it isn't possible but the drawback with the LFG is you don't know what you get till your inside. You need someone, tank, brute, WS, PB.. whatever to aggro the Abomination.

Pull the AV into the graves so the entire team can spawn zombies. may not even be a bad idea to stay fairly close to the AV while zombie hunting so any AoE attacks can damage the zombies and the monster. what am I saying MAY BE.. if you have AoE attacks be as close to the monster as you can killing zombies and damaging it at the same time

Have your strategy mapped out before you chat with Dr. Kane. Once the timer starts you need to be very quiet and just keep killing zombies to succeeed. if your a couple minutes in and still working out who doeas what.. you failed.

As part of your plan make sure everyone knows as soon as you have 99 zombies dead.. I don't care if there are 20 still running around everyone needs to concentrate all damage on the AV. Debuff it with anything you can and just keep firing until you either see mission complete or Time ran out on It's Alive Badge.

and finally, since one of my SG mates missed me briefing this, RELAX. Even if you fail to earn the badge you can still defeat the AV. earn a reward and get a mission complete. This is not an Incarnate trial and if the timer runs out you fail! You just have to go back and try again and kill zombies faster!

The problem I see on this thread isn't that this is impossible but that it's not as simple as step inside, pound on stuff, walk away with badge!


Now to speculate a bit .. someone asked why level 29 and when i joined the trial for the first time that thought crossed my mind as well. how is this for a potential aswer... by auto exemplaring everyone down, or up, to level 29 they accomplish one thing. Through SSK even a 5o level will keep 5 added levels of powers or they have acces to everything up to level 34. Since epic powers now become available as low as 35 that means the trial is designed to be completed with no help from the epic power pool. Now granted I am not an NC Soft Dev and have no clue as to their actual reasoning bjut this seems to make more sense than.. "they pulled a number out of a hat!".

Why 4 players as a minimum and a mximum.. I don;t have a clue. Why 12 players mimum and 24 max for a BAF, Keyes or UG. Why 8 minimum and 16 max for a Lambda. Why can 3 people run a Positron One or two TF but you are required to have 8 to start a Statesman TF. How about because that's how they decided to do it and since they are the one's designing the game we, as players, have to adapt and deal with it. maybe just maybe they wanted to make it fun but still a bit of a challenge if your going for that third badge. Sure if I take an 8 man team inside I can kill off 99 zombies and the AV in 12 minutes..

99 / 7 = 14.14 zombies per player (aside from your tank) in 12 minutes or .. 1.17 zombies per minute If it takes you more than a minute to kill one of those zombies you need to re-examine your build.

99/3 -- 33.0 zombies per player (again aside from your tank, brute whatever) in 12 minutes. Now you need to kill 2.75 zombie per man per minute. Doable but if you all take 12 minutes to defeat the zombie yor tank better be able to defeat the AV SOLO. So lets adjust those figures a bit.

99/7 = 14.14 in 8 minutes (so we have time left to defeat the AV) We still only need to defeat 1.75 zombies per player over that 8 minute period so we have 4 to concentrate all attacks on the AV. That's under 2 zombie a minute so unless your build, sorry but, sucks that's not hard at all.

99/3 = 33 in 8 minutes means we now need each player to defeat 4.125 zombie every minute. THAT's more of a challenge but with AoE attacks and some good players its still doable.. (see my breakdown on attempt number one if you don't think so).


As I recall and its been brought up on the forums constantly people used to complain that the Stateman TF and Lord Recluse SF were too hard until they discovered the strategies that worked and then, even before Incarnate powers made them both easier, players were completing them all the time. When the ITF arrived players weer on the forums screaming about how hard it was to complete. I cant recall the last time i was on an ITF that failed. You have two weeks .. and if the thing is popular it will undoutably return next halloween.. get some friends together and experiment until you find a strategy that works and then exploit it. It's the way we do things here!!!!!!!


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Posted

Successfully ran it last night, thanks to the 2 corrs that came along. Seconds to spare on defeating the zombies/abomination. Did all the things to get zombies to spawn, abomination out in the graveyard, etc.

Got my badges that's what mattered to me.

By the way Wendy nice mini-guide for the tf.

Thanks all for the help/advice.


 

Posted

I love the LFG queue. And I'm hoping it gets fine tuned to add all TF's as an option. And for solo players, I would think this is a huge bonus since you don't have to worry about putting a team together. Just queue up. Run the trial/tf, and then you're off on your own again.

I've ran the trial probably a dozen times already, and I've never been on one that wasn't successful, but 6 players might have made it a little less of a headache at times.

I'm wondering if it was just a space constraint. Cramped rooms. However, the Graveyard is a pretty good size place.


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Posted

Is there some place that describes these three badges from the Haunted House trial?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader View Post
Is there some place that describes these three badges from the Haunted House trial?
As well as the Wiki page.


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Posted

One thing to watch when using LFG to try and join the trial. The very top button under Holiday will get you on the Up From Below trial if one of them starts first.

Ran it twice last night successfully with my DP/Eng Corrupter. The first time through apparently none of the others wanted to go for the zombie badge and just charged the Abomination. ::sigh:: ah well we got that and defeated Kane.

The second group I was on did much better though we didn't have a tank and the @#$@ Abomination seemed to like to chase me. We had the zombie all done in maybe 5 or 6 minutes and then handily finished the abomination with time to spare. So you can do it with the abomination chasing your corrupter around and killing him over and over. ::sigh:: Oh well I have all 3 badges and both costume bits for him now.


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