Two minds about First Ward
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-10-14 03:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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He's relatively easy, just need a few folks dedicated to taking out the seedlings, which also has a badge for defeating one of each.
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Originally Posted by Mephe
1 - The seed GM, i have never seen anybody on X trying to take this down. Is the carrot no good, is the GM too hard, is X at EST prime time low on toons?
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the GM is a little bit tougher than other GMs in the fact it does almost require a full team in order to fight it and the fact that its flying (needing a full team is due to necessary bit of keeping seedlings dead so the seed is not being buffed|
Originally Posted by Mephe
Agree with the posters above. Its not perfect, but its pretty darn close.
Some issues and observations: 1 - The seed GM, i have never seen anybody on X trying to take this down. Is the carrot no good, is the GM too hard, is X at EST prime time low on toons? I personally think its better if something is farmed than ignorned. See RWZ ship raid for example. I dont even know what the rewards for this GM are, but I assume they are poor since nobody bothers. |
the reward on it is almost 3x what other GMs award (it gives 5 merits instead of the usual 2)
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A character I respect as much as Katie needs to be kept as far away from Incarnate trials and lore as possible.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Katie might need to be still in the asylum for the Mother Mayhem Trial
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And GM reward has long been out of whack with their difficulty. 5000xp from defeating Babbage, last time I ran Synapse, 6000 approx. for a boss. EBs and GMs both need a comb over, as neither are really worth their commesurably higher effort, but GMs especially.
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EBs arent too much tougher than most bosses, just with more hp, the only ones which are a tad tougher than bosses are usually AVs which are bumped down to EBs if your team/diff is small/low enough|
Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A character I respect as much as Katie needs to be kept as far away from Incarnate trials and lore as possible.
And GM reward has long been out of whack with their difficulty. 5000xp from defeating Babbage, last time I ran Synapse, 6000 approx. for a boss. EBs and GMs both need a comb over, as neither are really worth their commesurably higher effort, but GMs especially. |
i do agree the reward for GMs is kind of pitiful, outside of the badge a solo GM kill is only worth about 23,000 inf and small chunk of prestige and 2 merits (except for seed of hami which is worth 5 merits), based on the inf reward a GM is worth about 2 lvl 50 bosses. if a GM was say raised to the amount of an AV (approx 10x what they are currently worth), it might be worth to go after them again (the amount of xp they give might have to be lower due to poeple trying to farm them for lvls)
here's a question:
Did the villain side intro change? A few weeks ago I brought my praetorian turned villain blaster into First Ward to go poke about (Already run through it with a Resistance Mastermind) and I got the standard 'There is something troubling in first ward'.
However, I just took a redside dominator through and the Doorman gave me a pretty long little discussion that I don't recall getting with the Blaster that basically summed up as "Yeah you're a villain and evil, but this is bigger than you and if you don't do something, you'll probably get killed in the fallout if things go nuke".
While not perfect, it seemed a better dovetailing for a villain into the First Ward story than just ignoring that I was a villain, which I think was the case the first time in.
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All paths lead to the Well |
Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A character I respect as much as Katie needs to be kept as far away from Incarnate trials and lore as possible.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Amen to this. |
Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A character I respect as much as Katie needs to be kept as far away from Incarnate trials and lore as possible.
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Katie's story is touching, full of human interest and well written. It has no place whatsoever in the grinding farm-fest that is the Incarnate system.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Katie's story of being freed from the Seer network was a Well plot too? Time we cut this plot tumour out if that's the case.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
All paths lead to the Well
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The closer the content is to 50, the closer it syncs with the Incarnate storyline |
Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
Katie's story of being freed from the Seer network was a Well plot too? Time we cut this plot tumour out if that's the case.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yes, we get that. The problem is the Incarnate storyline sucks.
| The closer the content is to 50, the closer it syncs with the Incarnate storyline |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
A: First Ward is level 20-30. That's twenty levels off 50.
B: Malta, World Wide Red. Carnies, Upon the Psychic Plane. The Lord Recluse SF. There's a whole ream of content at 50 which has nothing to do with the Incarnate storyline.
C: Venture, and most of the people who play them's point is very accurate. The plot isn't good.
Anyway, those are my three cents. I'm fairly sure GG has never changed her mind on anything in her life, though, and this is a thread about First Ward, so I'll get back on topic.
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I'm honestly curious, what writing in this game, do you think does NOT suck?|
Originally Posted by Venture
Yes, we get that. The problem is the Incarnate storyline sucks.
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Personally I quite simply think Praetoria (though not First Ward) has got the best of the writing in this game, bar none. It's the only part of it that's even coming close to being "good writing" (for a computer game, much less good writing in general)
I mean, I don't expect the game to be Planescape: Torment or anything, but Praetoria is where it comes closest.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Praetoria isn't what the complaint was raised about. 
(That subject has been dropped)
EDIT: In fact, while I think Praetoria's writing was damn good for the most part, First Ward (pacing issues and unfortunate placement of characters aside) was above and beyond that. I mean, we could have done with Midnighter earlier, for example, when the stakes aren't so high so we can appreciate the comedy, but their writing? Darn good. Just needed to be less of it, and a bit more spread out.
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You make that sound like a fact rather than a personal opinion |
Originally Posted by Venture
Yes, we get that. The problem is the Incarnate storyline sucks.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A character I respect as much as Katie needs to be kept as far away from Incarnate trials and lore as possible.
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Originally Posted by Dante
Amen to this.
Katie's story is touching, full of human interest and well written. It has no place whatsoever in the grinding farm-fest that is the Incarnate system. |
Katie needs her own arc. I'm hopeful that whenever the 30-40 Praetorian zone gets added, her issues will be addressed. It's too cruel not to do so.
As to the incarnate system, the "story" that's shoehorned on top of those raids is totally pointless. I'm a story person. I did the Underground Trial the other night because I'd heard that's where the issues from First Ward get wrapped up.
Well, maybe some of them do. I wouldn't know. I was too busy playing the raid content, throwing out heals, rezzes, buffs, debuffs, keeping up with the group, noting which group I was in when we split to pull this or ranged that. I had an extremely competent, kind leader (yay Paladin!) who made the raiding part of it smooth as it could be, but there was absolutely NO TIME to have any understanding of what's going on storywise in there.
The devs need to keep their grindfests simple and give us the opportunity to EXPERIENCE content by keeping it in solo/small-group-able content. Putting it in raid content is a waste of their time and cheats us out of the story.
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The pieces are being moved on the board, ready for the climax of the Praetotiran storyline - Katie seems good at getting us into the asylum - which is the lair of one of the last remaining loyalist AVs, who controls the enslaved thought police who we'll need to liberate, and who also holds the daughter of the recently dead leader of the Resistance - there's a reason why Mother Mayhem and her actions played such a big role in First Ward but we never got to confront her |
Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
A: First Ward is level 20-30. That's twenty levels off 50.
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| Venture, and most of the people who play them's point is very accurate. The plot isn't good. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You should be prepared to be "cheated" then when defeating Mother Mayhem and in the final showdown with Tyrant |
Originally Posted by Feycat
Putting it in raid content is a waste of their time and cheats us out of the story.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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When did you become a dev, GG? Your "factual" statements about what is and isn't coming are fairly tiresome.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You should be prepared to be "cheated" then when defeating Mother Mayhem and in the final showdown with Tyrant
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Also, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen say that the actual storyline for the incarnates is good, so I'd say "most" is pretty accurate, if anecdotal.
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Telling my Villains, once again, that they are a mere flea on a dog's butt so they better get jumpin' before the medicated shampoo comes is less of a dovetail and more of a Hardcase-hammer ("Do as I say because you're dead if you don't"). Hardcase-hammers suck.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
While not perfect, it seemed a better dovetailing for a villain into the First Ward story than just ignoring that I was a villain, which I think was the case the first time in.
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Tell me something, if you would be so kind...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Katie might need to be still in the asylum for the Mother Mayhem Trial
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Would Golden Girl, the character you play as a hero, REALLY just walk away and leave Katie there because "it might be useful someday"? Knowing where she is and the kind of horrors she's going to be subjected to, knowing that you could get a bunch of people together and get her out RIGHT NOW, would Golden Girl really just leave and do nothing? Would she really think that's the right thing to do?
If she really thinks that the potential ends justifies what's going to happen, then congratulations. Cole would be proud of Golden Girl for finally coming to see things his way.
My HEROES, however, would not leave things like that. Hell, most of my Villains wouldn't, either.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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It was better than when it just *ignored* I was a villain and told me I should help out with this crisis just because.
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Originally Posted by Daemodand
Telling my Villains, once again, that they are a mere flea on a dog's butt so they better get jumpin' before the medicated shampoo comes is less of a dovetail and more of a Hardcase-hammer ("Do as I say because you're dead if you don't"). Hardcase-hammers suck.
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I get the feeling we're going to have to free her again whenever they include 40-50 Praetorian content. Then we'll have some complaints about freeing her, trapping her, then freeing her again |
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
Tell me something, if you would be so kind...
Would Golden Girl, the character you play as a hero, REALLY just walk away and leave Katie there because "it might be useful someday"? Knowing where she is and the kind of horrors she's going to be subjected to, knowing that you could get a bunch of people together and get her out RIGHT NOW, would Golden Girl really just leave and do nothing? Would she really think that's the right thing to do? If she really thinks that the potential ends justifies what's going to happen, then congratulations. Cole would be proud of Golden Girl for finally coming to see things his way. My HEROES, however, would not leave things like that. Hell, most of my Villains wouldn't, either. |
God, I hope not.
I'm reminded of the Incredibles blooper.
"I feel like the maid! I just saved this place! Can it stay saved- FOR FIVE MINUTES!"
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Does this make Katie, like, the Praetorian version of Percy Winkley?
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I get the feeling we're going to have to free her again whenever they include 40-50 Praetorian content. Then we'll have some complaints about freeing her, trapping her, then freeing her again
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Just finished the First Ward on my SS/stone brute and I have to echo the "what, that's it?" feeling at the end. I was especially disappointed in the last mission because I didn't actually get to DO anything other than punch Serene repeatedly. The real dramatic part took place among a bunch of NPCs while I sat back and watched. Who's supposed to be the protagonist here, again?
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