Two minds about First Ward
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-10-14 03:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Nah. Praetorian Percy's even more of a knucklehead.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Does this make Katie, like, the Praetorian version of Percy Winkley?
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I'm also pretty sure that he's never had a girlfriend |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Nah. Praetorian Percy's even more of a knucklehead.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Wait, who/where was Praetorian Percy?
It wasn't Master Midnight was it? >>
SPOILERS
Yes.
I'm not in two minds any more. I've come to the conclusion tat First Ward is a steaming pile of crap. It looks lovely, the sound effects in the zone are great (love the churchbells), but the mission design is absolutely awful. I've fallen foul of the stupid ambusmania the devs are obsessed with in almost every mission. Latest is 'Force idnight to help you stop Serene', and half way thru the fight with him he summons a mass of wankers, who kill me AFTER I've beaten him to his 'I give up, talkto me instead' mode. Then, when i'm lying there like a plank, they all run away. I'm faceplanted, he's kneeling there wheezing like a gimp. It's laughably failworthy.
I'm never playing through this terrible zone again after i'm done with it, and i'm going to recommend nobody who doesn't get it for free buys it either.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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That's the work of John "Protean" Hegner - also known as "Johnny Ambush" - and during the charity D&D game yesterday, he was the GM, and was using ambushes quite a lot |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I've fallen foul of the stupid ambusmania the devs are obsessed with in almost every mission.
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Ambushes and timers are 2 good ways of keeping players on their toes
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If by that you mean "Bad mission design that doesn't let players experience the story the mechanics should be designed to tell" then yes. As was stated somewhere earlier on, time pressure and ambushes are fine, if you're not also expecting people to read three wikipedia entries of dialogue at the same time.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Ambushes and timers are 2 good ways of keeping players on their toes
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I don't need to be 'kept on my toes', whatever the hell that means. I pay to enjoy myself. I don't want tense and aggravating. There's a DIFFICULTY SLIDER for people who want challenge. And - "Johnny Ambush"? /facepalm.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's the work of John "Protean" Hegner - also known as "Johnny Ambush" - and during the charity D&D game yesterday, he was the GM, and was using ambushes quite a lot
Ambushes and timers are 2 good ways of keeping players on their toes |
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Higher level enemies aren't the same kind of challenge as a timers or ambushes - that's why we have timers and ambushes |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I don't need to be 'kept on my toes', whatever the hell that means. I pay to enjoy myself. I don't want tense and aggravating. There's a DIFFICULTY SLIDER for people who want challenge.
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| And - "Johnny Ambush"? /facepalm. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Ambushes don't usually happen the middle of reading - they're triggered by doing something.
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Originally Posted by Spectral_Ent
If by that you mean "Bad mission design that doesn't let players experience the story the mechanics should be designed to tell" then yes. As was stated somewhere earlier on, time pressure and ambushes are fine, if you're not also expecting people to read three wikipedia entries of dialogue at the same time.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Johhny Ambush, I hope you're reading this - Learn to write better arcs.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Higher level enemies aren't the same kind of challenge as a timers or ambushes - that's why we have timers and ambushes
He's one of the lead mission designers, and he's responsible for large amounts of the Praetorian content - expect more ambushes as the Paretorian storyline reaches its climax in the Incarnate content - and then expect even more in the Coming Storm - whuich has started off with some meteorites ambushing Galaxy City |
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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They're often triggered by clicking a glowie, with drops a clue. Clicking a computer drops a clue which i can't read till after i've been killed by the ambush that spawns at the same time RIGHT ON TOP OF ME. This is a sign that the design is crap.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Ambushes don't usually happen the middle of reading - they're triggered by doing something.
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Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Praetoria has gotten a lot of praise for its arcs - no need to change a popular and winning style |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Johhny Ambush, I hope you're reading this - Learn to write better arcs.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Which ambushes spawn on top of you? They usually come running into the room, and you can see their text bubbles beofre they arrive.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
They're often triggered by clicking a glowie, with drops a clue. Clicking a computer drops a clue which i can't read till after i've been killed by the ambush that spawns at the same time RIGHT ON TOP OF ME. This is a sign that the design is crap.
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Plus, clues aren't lost - they're kept for you to read once you've taken care of the ambushes, which is realistic - like if you've just set off an alarm by downloading secret information, it's unlikely that the security squad that's rushing to the scene will stop and let you check it out before they attack you
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'm not going to argue with you, GG - you like the stuff they're throwing us lately, more power to you. I don't, and no amount of winky smilies is going to change my mind. I'm an armchair player. I like slow and steady.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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I just beat First Ward with my SJ/EA scrapper. I seem to recall being told on this very forum a few days ago that EA was terrible in First Ward due to the psi damage. I didn't die once. What's my secret? Kill stuff quickly, frankenslot inventions so I don't end up going ravingly mad about my endurance issues, and use inspirations when trouble is a-brewin'. You know, inspirations, those astonishingly powerful potions that you receive in a constant, endless torrent? They're not just there to look pretty. I was playing on 0x1 as that's what First Ward is plainly designed for.
Awesome zone, best one they've made by a large margin.
GG, there are multiple aspects of content. Saying this content is overall good isn't a blanket statement of approval for every single bit of it. It's more than a little possible to have enjoyed Praetoria's content except for constant ambushes.
And to echo CaptainMan's statement, while you're clearly quite happy with Praetoria based Incarnate Trials, there are a lot of people who aren't. On this very forum, even. The idea that all content has to be capped off in an Incarnate trial somewhere is a thought that I'm sure alarms more people than just me.
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I don't want to leave Katie in the system for another 6 levels.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Katie needs her own arc. I'm hopeful that whenever the 30-40 Praetorian zone gets added, her issues will be addressed. It's too cruel not to do so.
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My character 1) Knows where Katie. 2) Knows how to get there. 3) Has attacked that building multiple times. 4) Knows how to activate and deactivate the system.
I have NO reason not to just charge the building and get her out.
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...making scanner missions and tips look a whole lot more attractive than running actual missions.| He's one of the lead mission designers, and he's responsible for |
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| Praetoria has gotten a lot of praise for its arcs |
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| Which ambushes spawn on top of you? |
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| I just beat First Ward with my SJ/EA scrapper. I seem to recall being told on this very forum a few days ago that EA was terrible in First Ward due to the psi damage. I didn't die once. What's my secret? |
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| I was playing on 0x1 as that's what First Ward is plainly designed for. |
For the record, I played through it with a SJ/SR Scrapper in beta and more or less tore the zone a new one on +0x2+B-AV, but that's SR for you. I would never touch this zone with a live character because there is absolutely no impetus to. Primal Earth characters have less than zero reason to go to this zone. Praetorian characters might have a ghost of a reason but they've got a far better incentive to go to Primal and never look back. As MrCap says, the zone is pretty to look at, but it's got miserable gameplay and a Shoot The Shaggy Dog story line.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I found that, at least in one first ward arc, Ambushes are triggered by reading the information on computers.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Ambushes don't usually happen the middle of reading - they're triggered by doing something.
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Obviously anyone who plays the game for any sort of challenge has bosses on from level 2. The reason I mention that I was on 0x1 is because I assume that anyone complaining about the difficulty of the zone is also playing on that level. If they had increased their difficulty, how silly would it be to decry how hard it was? My point is not that I am some sort of uberplayer, but that the zone is very doable on default difficulty with a set that is popularly known to be particularly susceptible to its tricks.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Did you have Bosses turned off too? Post-SO I would expect anyone but the mythical Pure Empathy Defender to have a fairly easy time with First Ward on base difficulty.
For the record, I played through it with a SJ/SR Scrapper in beta and more or less tore the zone a new one on +0x2+B-AV, but that's SR for you. I would never touch this zone with a live character because there is absolutely no impetus to. Primal Earth characters have less than zero reason to go to this zone. Praetorian characters might have a ghost of a reason but they've got a far better incentive to go to Primal and never look back. As MrCap says, the zone is pretty to look at, but it's got miserable gameplay and a Shoot The Shaggy Dog story line. |
Surely my getting through it deathless on an /EA scrapper is more impressive than your turning up the difficulty and never playing the zone again.
Oh, and I'd be curious to hear what about the gameplay you find miserable since you don't find it to be overly difficult?
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Yup.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I don't want to leave Katie in the system for another 6 levels.
My character 1) Knows where Katie. 2) Knows how to get there. 3) Has attacked that building multiple times. 4) Knows how to activate and deactivate the system. I have NO reason not to just charge the building and get her out. |
For my own peace of mind and my own roleplay, that's exactly what my character went back and did. There's no way I'd be able to leave the zone otherwise.
If a future arc creates a need for me to retconn that little mental note, fine. But seriously, our characters know how to do it. I couldn't not.
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Then I say we need to start breaking these paths as quickly as possible |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
All paths lead to the Well
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There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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These are unbreakable paths |
Originally Posted by BigFish
Then I say we need to start breaking these paths as quickly as possible
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The more I play through the First Ward content, the more I appreciate Striga. It's even got better weather.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)