Two minds about First Ward


Agent White

 

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i21.5 is on Beta and open to all VIPs.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

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Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Ah. Before I asked, I attempted to log into one of the Beta servers (marked VIP) and was not allowed. I have now confirmed I am able to log into the other.
Yup - though all my characters were wiped so all I could/would do was roll a level 1 toon and look at the new incarnate powers.


Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

 

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I just finished the First Ward arc, and I thought it was absolutely amazing. I do agree it ends kind of abruptly, but I understand why they won't just tie everything up if it's expected that they are going to continue with this storyline. I'm now curious if I can take my Preatorian character all the way to 50 without ever having to step foot in Paragon City or the Rogue Isle's.

The ambushes and NPC dialogue don't always blend well together, and I wish that the timing between one and the other was handled better. I'm a very quick reader, so I don't usually have a problem with it, but I know my step father is going to be raising a fit when he starts doing this content and is trying to read dialogue happening across the map while angry snake ladies are bearing down on him.

Now, as far as ambushes in isolation go, I really do approve. Maybe I'd sing a different tune if I wasn't a Dual Blade/Willpower Brute, but I feel like it really kept the action flowing in that it randomly spiked up the difficulty. The vanilla game, by contrast, is always completely at my control, with spawns being perfectly content with just standing around, staring at cave patterns until I decide to come turn them into exp. First Ward was fast, exciting, and not always fair. I loved that. It gave me the impression that my enemies were actually the ruthless, anger driven monsters that were being described to me.


I really liked how they continued to incorporate previous characters into my missions. One of the problems I experience with the vanilla game is that contacts come and go so quickly that they don't seem like they really matter. They are basically just a voice box to point me at my next objective, and don't typically have any lasting, defining characteristic that will help me remember them. Not *all* of them, mind you, a good handful of the missions in City of Heroes and even more in City of Villains are really well done and quite memorable. A lot of the earlier missions, however, are very uninspired, I feel.

First Ward, and Going Rogue in general, actually feels like it has a 'cast' of characters with their own personalities, plots, and relevance. I'm actually going to *remember* the characters in First Ward and the crap we went through together. There's villains who I actually have a reason to dislike beyond them just being evil, and angry, and in my mission so I have to kill them. A re-occuring cast is definitely a good thing, and something I wish the rest of the game utilized more often.

Now to completely contradict myself; I did occasionally feel like some stories were dropped prematurely. For instance, I really liked my role in the Survivor's Camp, and how I brought Palatine into power, but it felt like I just sort of abandoned everyone as soon as it was time figure out what the Apparitions where. Maybe it would have caused a sense of character overload, but I would have liked it if I had more missions where I was working with the compound and Palatine again. I kind of felt like it was going to pick up with them again when one of the crazed Seers recognized my connection to Anna (stopped in my tracks at that point), but was quickly disappointed that nothing came out of that. I even felt kind of awkward asking Noble Savage to risk his life during the PPD raid since I hadn't actually talked to him in so long.


I do kind of agree with Sam about the back story of First Ward needing fleshed out more. I feel like I got more information reading about it on Paragonwiki than I did in the actual game. I can't decide if they're being purposefully discreet about it because they plan to reveal more about it in future arcs, or if they're just leaving it less detailed for the feeling of 'mysticism'. Either way, there's a lot of loose ends floating around in the zone that I want fleshed out, and the zone is definitely done well enough that it deserve fleshing out.


Either way, I *really* liked the story and all the little gameplay elements involved with it. I daresay that it might even be my favorite series of arcs in the game, but perhaps I'm still all giddy with excitement from having just completed it. I am a little bummed that this character has to basically sit around until they finish whatever follows this story segment--I really wanted to get him involved in some of the Halloween stuff. On the bright side, at least I have plenty of time to get all the day-job badges there~


 

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Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
First Ward, and Going Rogue in general, actually feels like it has a 'cast' of characters with their own personalities, plots, and relevance. I'm actually going to *remember* the characters in First Ward and the crap we went through together. There's villains who I actually have a reason to dislike beyond them just being evil, and angry, and in my mission so I have to kill them. A re-occuring cast is definitely a good thing, and something I wish the rest of the game utilized more often.
This is the way of the newer writing, and while not bad on its face... I'm still not sure I like it. Let me explain.

In the old game, almost no characters were ever persistent. Bosses showed up to be beaten and never heard from again, contacts had interchangeable models and backstories (literally interchangeable) and very few people even had a role in more than one mission. Yes, those are all bad things and I fully admit they were problems. But at the same time, the game's actual PLOT was always consistent pretty much the entire time through. For instance, in the 35-40 range, all of your contacts are wondering about this modern cult that Baron Zoria founded a hundred years ago called the Circle of Thorns, yet in the 40-45 range, everyone already knows that they are the ancient Oranbegans.

It's basic concepts like that which get introduced and remain persistent throughout the game. The Might for Right is mentioned in the earlier Sky Raider arcs, I believe, and becomes relevant once more with Malta in the 40s, just for example. In a 30-35 mission, you release Executable 6 onto the Internet where it can live happily ever after. In a 35-40 arc you're assisted by "the Doctor," a ghost-in-the-machine hacker against Crey. In a 40-45 mission, a contact mentions being helped by the Doctor and Executable 6. The game's entire world is living, active and changing behind the scenes, and if we pay attention to the little tidbits we see of it through our adventure, we can put together the bigger picture.

That's... Not quite the same in First Ward, because there really isn't much of a "story" to the zone. The entire place is a snapshot of events. To give credit where credit is due, the disaster among the Test in the Free Fire Zone is a good plot point which remains consistent, but even then - the world does not change unless you, personally, go out of your way to change it. Nothing happens off-screen, no-one does anything unless you start a mission to do it. Even Circe the Sorceress shows up exactly as you're heading out to confront Diabolique.

The original game was written to be HUGE, and it was written to evolve on its own even without the player's input. Sure, players were allowed to participate in much of that progression, but events you didn't have the opportunity to participate in (say you outlevelled the story arc) still happened, it was just someone else who did them. In fact, to this day City of Heroes has a metric ton of "story seeds" that were never explored, or never explored well. Tub Chi, Dreck, Lughebu, Blood of the Black Stream, the Warriors, the Family, the Luddites, Bat'Zul, the Red Hands, the Scrapyarders and more. By contrast, Praetoria seems to have been written with exactly as much backstory as is strictly necessary to carry a player through the storyline with very little background "trivia" beyond that.

First Ward is probably the worst offender in this case. First Ward IS the storyline given. Anything ever brought up gets hooked into a storyline somewhere and everything ever brought up is a major plot point. It's all exposition and very little atmosphere, is what I mean. And while the First Ward visuals and sound do help set up the mood, and they do a damn good job of it, too, there just isn't much the story can contribute.

Let me put it this way - do you remember ye olde aD&D adventure games? You could walk into a town and speak with nearly everybody, and they were all too eager to tell you about the politics of the region, current social issues, their religious beliefs, rumours about their neighbours, their local officials and even about the absolute rulers and even occasionally just jabber about the weather. Little of this was ever directly useful for a specific quest, but having the ability to speak with these people forged a much more "visceral" world that I "got" even if I didn't know everything about it or I couldn't necessarily describe it.

First Ward has very little of that, save for Cheshire talking about the Gumbo. In fact, go back to the old pre-I1 game and check contact descriptions: Sure, the contacts are interchangeable, but all of them have their lives put down to print. Someone sat down and gave these guys an actual history. Most of the newest contacts seem to just have a couple of sentences to tell us who they are, but rarely where they came from. And I miss that.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I know a few people here have mentioned it, but is there really anything villainous to do in First Ward? Now lets not muddy the discussion with the "definition" of villainous, because we have an entire game that does ok with it. So far, I have broken the neck of one idiot D.U.S.T. officer all the while saving this person and rescuing that person. As it has been said, why am I here again? Seriously, as a level 20+ I am not yet privy to the bigger picture, so I am still out for self. The villain I have is disgusted by by making friends and that's all I seem to be doing, it's ridiculous!


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

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Well, you get to do some very morally questionable things later on, in the name of the Greater Good and/or self-preservation. (Much to my hero's distress.) Is that enough for ya?


My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City

 

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Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Well, you get to do some very morally questionable things later on, in the name of the Greater Good and/or self-preservation. (Much to my hero's distress.) Is that enough for ya?
I guess it will have to do. In the meantime, I go off to talk to some contact that thinks I'm his "savior"...yeesh!


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
I know a few people here have mentioned it, but is there really anything villainous to do in First Ward? Now lets not muddy the discussion with the "definition" of villainous, because we have an entire game that does ok with it. So far, I have broken the neck of one idiot D.U.S.T. officer all the while saving this person and rescuing that person. As it has been said, why am I here again? Seriously, as a level 20+ I am not yet privy to the bigger picture, so I am still out for self. The villain I have is disgusted by by making friends and that's all I seem to be doing, it's ridiculous!
There's are two villain/loyalist contacts in the compund who give you repeatable missions, but the actual zone storyline is about helping, saving and healing First Ward, and getting the Carnival of Light into a stronger position to take on Tyrant and the loyalists - it's co-op content, so it's always going to be heroic.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
There's are two villain/loyalist contacts in the compund who give you repeatable missions, but the actual zone storyline is about helping, saving and healing First Ward, and getting the Carnival of Light into a stronger position to take on Tyrant and the loyalists - it's co-op content, so it's always going to be heroic.
I get that. The RWZ does this really well, by acknowledging be for the villain I am. I will help, be I won't be singing *** by ya with the goodie-goodies. Instead, this zone story completely ignores the master of death they are calling their best friend.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."