A short Public Service Announcement for our new players

As I recall on my last few Sister Psyche runs, the only two missions were we skipped to the boss was both the train missions...we also tend to skip to the sonic devices on the last two second and third to last missions (but sometimes we work our ways to them) and still maintained good speed.

However, that usually requires a decent mix on the team (like some AOE)

What additional story do you get out of killing every mob in every mission when it is not required? If someone wants to enjoy the stroy then they are perfectly able to enjoy the entire story. The dialogue is only in certain places in the missions, usually at a point that you MUST complete. I have absolutely no problem with this, unless it is a speed run (and I have never organized a mission as a speed run but I have joined them). My issues is with making a TF much longer than it neds to be.

The game designers have given us MANY tools to allow each and every one of us to run missions in many different ways. The way that the majority of TFs are run make use of those tools to streamline the TF to a more palatable length. I want the newer players to be aware of what "most" people are looking for in a TF. I am not saying that everyone wants this, and I am not saying that either way is "right" or "wrong", but the expectations of just about every TF group i join is that we will try and cut time out of the longer TFs when we can and we most certainly will not make long TFs even longer.

To the people that have said that they enjoy killing every mob in every mission, Have you done a Crystal Titan mission recently? Did you kill every mob in that map? I have never, and I mean NEVER, seen a group that wants to do that.

I also see that at least one person has mentioned that they avoid doing certain missions, but the newer players do not have the knowledge that some TFs are very long, very annoying missions (I am thinking of Dr. Q. among others), and some people may not have the time to commit to some of the longer TFs, especially if they make them even longer by likking everything.

From now on I will be informing my groups that I plan to stealth/TP in missions where possible to cut down on the length of the TF, and as always, I have no issue with the people that decide to leave at that point.

But as Kaiser said above, I took offense at the attitude of the players that left our Sister Psyche TF, not with how they wanted to run the TF. If they had said "Hey man, I really want to go slow in here, kill everything for max xp, not jump past the missions", then I would have explained why I wanted to do it the way everyone else wanted to, and if no compromise could be reached then we could have parted ways with no problems. But when the newer players think that THEIR way is the only right way and that the vets are trying to hold them back... I do have a problem.

Originally Posted by TonyV
Considering that a lot of these new players are playing these missions and experiencing the story behind them for the very first time ever, I seriously question whether XP has much to do with it. I know that the OP referred to XP, but it's possible that he is projecting what he thought the players were thinking onto them or that the new players were shy about admitting that they want to take a minute to read what they were doing instead of getting as far as, "The disturbance I have been sensing seems to spiral ever wider. The industrial complex--" MISSION COMPLETE!

You are incorrect. The players which left told us, very clearly, that they only wanted the maximum xp from the TF. They also mentioned that they did not care about story or badges, simply xp.

So, before you "serously question whether XP has much to do with it", or that I am projecting, I suggest you work on your reading comprehension, because I was very clear as to what the problem was.

The players in question were not shy, by any stretch of the imagination, nor were they unable to express themselves in a clear manner. They made their expectations loud and clear.

1. I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I only quoted the paragraph about the book because I didn't feel it was necessary to quote your entire post in order to make my point. I read the first paragraph, but since the discussion in this thread is based at least in part upon people who just want to complete the tf for the badge or merits or what have you, I was pointing out that your book analogy was a poor one for this discussion as it fails when considered in that context.

2. If you want to just make a general statement about running tf's and how you like to experience them as immersive that's fine, but that's your own little thing, for your own little thread. Just as this isn't about me (and i'd argue it is, at least to a greater degree than it's about you, since I was part of the tf in question), it's not just about you either.

3. I played Sister Psyche for immersion too, stopping to smell the roses and all THE FIRST THREE OR FOUR TIMES I PLAYED IT, circa 2004. Having run this tf well over thirty times on close to as many toons, it's no longer immersion for me, more like chinese water torture if done in stop and smell the roses format. I do however, want the badge for each of my toons. I haven't yet done the First Ward content. Should you wish to do it with me, you may find I'm not quite the horrible speed run farmer you presume me to be.

You shut your trap you. And get back in your cage. And take a shower, you smell.














P.S. Will u run First Ward wif me?

It's really simply.

As a team leader, communicate to the other 7 players what you plan to do. It's their time too. They might not want to waste it stealthing or skipping content.

You play your way. They play their way. blahblahblah.

Sadly, people rarely communicate on TFs and even trials now a days and then all bent out of shape when people aren't reading the team leader's mind.

If I'm on one of my lvl 50s, I prefer speed runs (or "stealth as much as possible" runs).

If I'm something that needs XP (or there are friends/other teammates that need XP) then it's mostly a "kill most that get in the way" with a mix of "stealth if we can").

But yes, as others have said just say what you want to do/how you want to do it...never know if you sign up for an ITF thinking it's a speed but no...it's a kill all and you don't have 2 hours to spare

I think the problem is depending on server and eve time of day there are a lot a TFs running that are filled with players that don't need, want or care a lick about XP. Your right it's not in limited supply but to a 20 level looking to make 22 or more and get into SOs any XP is good xp. The strange part of this whole thread is what i have experienced on Exalted. I ran Pos 1 and 2 with one team on one day and then Synapse with a different team on a different day. Now we are talking about a server loaded with vets from .. who knows what server... But one thing all those teams had in common was not a single sole was level 50 and only there for the merits etc.. and on Posi 1 we actually even cleared all of the COT outside of City Hall before going in to complete. Synapse was the same and lord knows I have done enough Synapse TFs on my way to multiple toons with TF Commander to attest to the fact that after those three straight kiils all, followed by a patrol and then another kill all.,.... Everyone is more than happy to stealth what's left and just be done!!!!!

Not this time though .. we fought our way back to defeat Bertha, Long Tom and all the rest.. we did stop short of clearing the final mission and just fought our way back to the Clockwork King and then defeated him for the TF complete.

The point is all those teams of vets wanted to level their toons and were willing to commit the time and effort required to turn just about every mission into a kill all.

Now I have done plenty of 'speed" runs on Sister P, Manticore and even the ITF and enjoyed them but perhaps the public service message should be to all team leaders..

Clearly state what you intend to do so that no one, old Vet Vip or brand new F2P, knows what to expect when they send a tell and ask to join you. After that if they start to complain.. well they just were not paying attention .. were they. As long as you have made your plans clear they have no gripe and can either just hush up and take what they get or quit the TF.

A favorite example of "I wasn't paying attanetion" was on a Lambda trial I joined a while back. the League leader made in pretty clear in avertising it would not be a speed run and then made it abundantly clear in pre que league chat that he was in this for the IXP and we would be clearing the streets, the courtyard, and the gun towers before heading inside. Its been a while but I seem to recall him even asking if anyone had a problem with that and the replies were all no its fine .. let's go! We queue'd and after about 2 mobs the Brute on one team asked .. "isn't this a speed lambda" When the OBVIOUS reply came back .. N0. He quit. lol .. moral of the story is boys and girls no matter what you do or say there will always be someone that doesn't listen to a thing and just assumes they know what is going on.

Whenever I run a speed SF/TF, I state the following:
The format for this is speed which means that we go straight to the objectives.
This will take about XX mins, so if you can't stay that long, please leave now to make room for your replacement, because I can't invite after I start it.
(For a lowbie run) We will malefactor down to lv XX.
The first mission will spawn in < neighborhood >. Please head there.

Typical questions:
* I haven't done this before.
> NP, please listen to instructions and load up on luck and greens. You can also keep wakies in email. If you would like more information about the SF see: < show paragonwiki link >

* I don't have stealth.
> TP to the boss will be provided, so just wait for TP.

* But I need the XP!
> Missions and farms are better for earning XP since you can adjust the difficulty and reset the mission if it doesn't work out. In a SF, missions can't be reset once it is received.
> If this is a lowbie SF and there are 50s in the group, I point them out and say, "lvl 50s don't earn XP". Altho shards can drop for 50s in low level SFs, the kill rate and therefore drop rate is higher in lvl 50 TFs since 50s have access to all their powers. Farming shards in lowbie SFs isn't time efficient.

There's also a study which indicates that people's concentration starts to go down after 1 hour of focus. This means that people will make more mistakes, get cranky, etc.
Unless I know that the members are experienced speedsters, I usually give instructions because I've met a bunch of vets who are rusty with speeding lowbie SFs.

The forums use the American dating convention of Month/Day/Year. It actually died in October.

Upon Further review. Necroposting Penalty overturned. the gap is less than 30 days between posts.

Id like to present a story....

About 3 months ago, I was leading a kill-everything ITF. We killed _everything_. We had all vets, but a few people who never ran the TF before. We cut all the way to the end of the ITF, despite people dropping (vets) because we were taking too long and people were dying lots. By the time we got to whatsisface, we were 4 people. We wiped 4 times. The blaster vet said screw this, I am sick of dying and quit. We were left with me, one noob, and one vet who hadn't completed it. I asked the team, I am sure we can do it, shall we try one or two more times? Next round I managed to tank whatsisface (elec/psi/ice dom.....) long enough and debuf him enough for the other two guys to beat the snot out of him. We finally got 1 fluffy down, and then the next fell pretty quick. After that it was a quick finish. Point being, the leader really needs to communicate and be willing to accept what the team wants to do. Finishing that TF netted one guy a really nice rare recipe, one guy a badge, and tons of exp in general. Some times, the team wants to do something you don't want to (I was pretty sick of team wipes by then), but if you started it, you really need to respect everyone on the team equally. I always always ask what the team wants before we start. Satanic Hamster (despite being a total grouch), also does it. Most people I know do it. If someone says kill all, well, at least we will kill as much as possible instead of stealthing. Exception being Kahn, because some of those maps are so brutal people can't even move due to the lag...

Please, think of the kittens.

edsit: 23 deaths. Doesnt strike me as that many?