A short Public Service Announcement for our new players

Simple solution here, guys--communication. The team leader should be actually telling his team what he plans on doing. I know, shocking.

The main point here is communication. The players need to know up front how the TF will be run. Assuming it will be done a certain way without letting it be known that it will be done that way is poor tactics and will always end badly, either with a failed TF or an experience that was not fun.

Ok, according to the OP, its expected for players joining a TF/SF to ask if the TF/SF is a speed or full (XP) run.

IMHO, Bull.

As the leader of any TF/SG/arc/mish/raid etc, the parameters of the play should be made up front by the leader or the one who organizes the team. I ALWAYS do this, even for the smallest team, even with vets.

Why? Because I don't make the assumption that each of the players is a veteran hard-running player, or that they want speed runs, or that they know exactly what timeframe the TF/SF/Arc/Raid etc will go for, or what major obstacles they may encounter for the duration.

If you have a core group of folks you run with, and everyone agrees and understands the team leader's playstyle, that's great -go for it; if you have even ONE person who hasn't played/teamed with you before (nor knows of your playstyle), the leader should inform the team of the intentions, plans, length of the team's efforts (i.e., "I need to get this done in 2 hours, ergo, we may have to stealth a couple missions", or "we're going to do the first 3 missions of this TF, take 1/2 break for dinner here, and then do the rest") right off the bat. To do otherwise potentially sets your team up for failure, disappointment and disillusionment of the team's goals.

Some may want to RP through the activity; some may want to get absorbed into the story; some may want to see if they can break the record for the fastest time the TF/SF/arc can be done. Without all team members knowing that up front, you're creating an issue for the team before you even start the first fight.

As a leader, take repsonsibility and lead properly.

Leadership in CoH doesn't just mean administratively putting the team together and running headlong into it, expecting everyone to read your mind on what to do. Leadership means you need to watch your team's coordination and set conditions at the outset as well as when in a mission if there is a tactical or strategic falacy in the team's combat (how many times have we seen: "Leerooooooy Jennnnkins!"). Communicate to AND with the team, thus aiding in making decisions for the good of the team, all to reach the team's goal (not just yours). If you don't feel comfortable with that, and would rather create the team rather than lead, then you better have a leader to pass the star to that is willing and capable of being a leader for the team.

Think back to when YOU started this game. I'm sure there was a helpful vet who helped mold your understanding and enjoyment of the game by communicating what needs to be done to do well for the team and/or TF/SF/Arc/Raid completion.

You need to think of your team's experience everytime you form a team, because these players your expecting to know how to play the game mostly don't have your plethora of CoH knoweldge...or necessarily a desire to perform your unstated playstyle.

It's not as hard as it sounds. Several typed/Ventrilo'd comments before the start of the team's activities may be all you need to make for a good experience for everyone...or you can continue to bemoan your leadership shortcomings and post public service announcments on the forums of elitist veteran mandates to new/inexperienced players.

tl;dr - An effective leader takes responsibility in communicating, establishing and following through with the team's parameters prior to the start of a TF/SF/Arc/Raid etc of whether the team will do stealth or XP runs, pulling a boss or mobbing a boss, buff reminders prior to a big battle, etc. The invited team member should NOT be expected to ask/read the mind of the leader about this.

Seriously? Sister Psyche? It's a couple of hours tops. You try to cut corners on a Quaterfield, not a Sis.

Someone - or at least a group - should offer in-game seminars on how to effectively run TF/SF's/Monster Raids/Incarnate Trials and alternative ways to run them (and no; not alternative like alternative lifestyles alternative.)

I don't hate speed runs. They can be a delightful time saver... If you know it's a speed run, and you know what you're supposed to do.

I do hate people always assuming everyone has a perfect knowledge and memory of how a speed run works. Or assuming you know how any run works. Because I hate feeling like a useless waste of space just because I haven't done a term paper and a book report on 'efficient' play. I love easy experience, but I hate farming, leeching, or just flailing uselessly at purple cons with my Bot's lasers 'because I feel, 'okay, why am I even HERE? I'm of no help to anyone'. When it comes to the LAM Trial for example, I turned to the Wiki after my first run for explenations, and it wasn't until after I had already unlocked my Destiny slot that I ever saw a single person EXPLAIN anything, instead of simple statements like 'Turrets' 'Team 1 labs' 'Acids' 'check your temps noobs!'. At least LAM is easy to figure out what's going on after stumbling through like a lost puppy once though. Not so much for a long chain of missions.

On ITF lines, during the final mission one guy assumed we WERE doing a speed run (We tended to be off and on about it on a mission to mission basis)... And then when it was revealed everyone else was going to kill their way to the end, they just waited by the end boss area the entire time instead of helping, occasionally telling us to hurry up. I guess the leader was just too polite to kick them.

Though yes, mostly, I wish there was more explanation. Up front announcements of a Speed run are useless to those who don't know how to properly zip through content in ways more complex than 'sit there and wait for someone to recall friend you to the end'.

Also, to anyone hoping to get the full, or even partial experience from a Taskforce. Check to see if the leader, or a majority of the Team are level 50. If they are, odds are good they are going to speed through, because they are likely only in it for the TF completion rewards. (I'm... Still not sure what the hell happened in that LGTF, just that we won, and those previously mentioned NPCs died). Unfair generalization of course, but 50's don't need experience and Incarnates do love them their TF gained incarnate salvage. I was a 50 on my first LGTF run, after all.

Again, I do not hate taking part in, or the concept of Speed runs, from Full tilt skip everything to moments of convenience, or plain old normal runs either. I hate when everyone automatically assumes you are a trained expert of a machine who already knows how everything works, and refuse to give any explanations when you point out your new to it (and they don't just outright kick you for admitting that).

I just want to know what the heck I'm doing, and how.

There is no right or wrong way to run a tf... if YOU are running it you make the rules if people don't like it they can choose not to run with you... simple and it has nothing to do with being an elitest. I agree it's a good thing to let people know how you are planning to run certain tf's. I will say upfront what I expect if anything at all be it "objectives only" to "shard run" or whatever my parameters will be, some people setup tf's and run them how they want and I have seen many times where people will get kicked for not following the way the tf was setup even though the leader said nothing... which to me is messed up but that's how it goes sometimes

When picking a random or joining a random team you would like to hope you are joining a good team or getting a good player but that is not always the case


Many people believe it's a vet's moral obligation to help out new players and for me, I think it's a good thing to do. The Mentor program is a grea idea and I like helping new players by pointing them in the right direction and help them better understand this game which in turn helps the mbe better players... (you hope)

Some people do speed runs - I tend to do "For The Money" runs - especially ITF.

"For The Money" runs are where you kill everything.

E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G.

I agree, I think it's essential for any Team Leader to announce what type of run it is going to be - and if they fail to do so and you are on that team - just ask.

Seriously though, speed runs are the one true way to TF. Just think of the comic books you loved when you were younger. Who can forget Superman deciding not to punch any of the poorly armed thugs who stand before him like a sea of kittens, instead flying directly to Lex Luthor and punching his face? I loved the way he spent the last ten pages of the book building the the device whose blueprint fell out of Luthor's pocket and then listing it on eBay.

Heh, that's really not a matter of Vets vs New Players...
However things have already been pretty well said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emberly ... Here's a proper public service announcement for new players. Don't be surprised if you join a task force and find that the more experienced players are unilaterally deciding that they know best how to run the TF, without consulting or even informing you. Don't take it personally; they are set in their ways and can't understand that some people might have different assumptions than they do. A good practice when joining a TF is to ask, "are we speeding this?" because many team leaders won't even tell you that at the outset, even though it can make a huge difference in fun for many. Remember, if you join a TF and it turns out to be run in a way you don't like, you can leave and form your own!

Now, to this specific case of the Sister Psyche and this one mission...
No, this isn't a speed run and I don't even necessarily think that every single leader has to remember to bring this up when forming the team...
Stealthing and Teleporting are legitimate powers and tactics, just as much as any of our attacks, buffs and debuffs... So, there's not a unilateral issue against such tactics.
I believe that particular situation comes down to this...
You bring up the option, you vote, and the leader makes the final decision based on the vote. The leader could say, well 6 to 2, but these two have never done it before, so let's go with them... everyone okay with that? or could just go with the vote and explain to the 2 that skipping things here and there could be the difference between a 2 hour TF and a 4 hour TF or whatever the case may be.
That's the thing new people may not realize... that these TFs can take a long while.

Anyway, communication is definitely the key. However we're not perfect and sometimes just a bit of sorting things out and sharing of respectful thoughts can win out just as much as preliminary communication (if not more so).

Still... taking your standards and the standards of those you generally run TFs with as the Veteran Standards that new player should be made aware of is not right.
There are plenty Veterans who disagree with those standards.

Honestly, I think this is a great example of how this community has slipped a bit in maintaining a more respectful view of various standards.
I think that the pushy crowd has taken liberties and others have let them (more blame to those that let them and haven't communicated their disapproval, in my opinion).

Anyway... that last bit shouldn't be read as anything grandiose. I just think that (very generally speaking... I love all types of players, so zero disrespect here) the speeders, min/maxers and such have enforced their standards to the point that people, as the OP mentions, don't really complain when TFs and such go that route without any preliminary announcement of the plan.
(also, fully noting that stealthing a map or two is not a full-on speed run... but it is still something that should be agreed upon)

I'm a 7 year vet who has been playing this game without pause to subscription since the week after launch. I was on the tf with Wrend that was impetus for this thread and I have a couple of thoughts and points to add.

I want to say first and foremost that this experience, and the discussion in this thread have brought to the forefront the idea that at this juncture in the game's life, communication is critical. For at least three or four years now, brand new players with narry a vet badge or ten to their name have been rather few and far between in my experience, and I am not someone who runs exclusively with other vet players. I do as many PUGS as not, and look at folks info with some regularity. FTP means there is currently a large wave of players completely new to the game playing alongside what was previously an overwhemlingly veteran playerbase. New blood is good, but as has been stated, and as I learned on this tf, communication will be key.

One point about the players who left the tf that Wrend did not bring up. They did not just quit, but did so rudely, and hurling insults, and with the obvious notion that we had wronged them by not catering to their wishes. I personally had a rather terse exchange with one of them in tells where I tried to explain several things, including that xp isn't finite in coh, that most players do not expect Sister Psyche to require the amount of time it would take if we treated everything as a kill all, and that the method we were pursuing, if not the "standard" method (which in my considerable experience, it very nearly is) was close enough that many players consider it unspoken that this is how a tf will be run if not stated otherwise.

Based on previous posts to the thread I know some posters will disagree with me, but it is my honest experience that this is the "typical" way tf's get run at this point. As always YMMV, but I'm not the only one. My attempts at education were met with insults, hostility, and the underlying attitude that WE were doing something unusual and had wronged HIM and his fiance by not making our plans clear up front. This was plainly not the case. Communication might be key, but when the star holder and six of the eight team members automatically expect something to be done in a way they all consider default, to argue that the onus was not on the minority to make their own wishes clear is pushing things a bit.

To be sure, Wrend and I will both make it a point to communicate clearly how any future tf's will be run, but the saying "When in Rome do as the Romans do" certainly applies here. When one moves to a new country with a different language, the expectation is that one take the time to learn the spoken language, rather than expect others to adapt to them, California being a possible exception to this otherwise universal norm. Likewise the onus is on new players to COH to adapt to the standards and norms here, not the other way around. As a vet player, I'm more than willing to do my part to help educate newcomers, but when my efforts are met with insults and hostility, you can imagine the effect this has on my sense of ambassadorship. For anyone wishing to claim this amounts to "vet elitism" stop hurling hollow epithets and use reason. I've personally helped and taught numerous new players, and have known Wrend to do likewise. To label either of us as such is merely to show one's ignorance of who we are as players and a willingness to make snap judgements.