Welcome to the Build Workshop! PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING!
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-10-10 14:38 in Build Workshop
Quote:
Things make more sense with it.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
*Context*
-Z |
I was all ready to post about how this didn't make sense, seeing as we were just looking at ways to 'trim the fat' on the forums. Couldn't understand why the need to add one.
This explanation makes sense though.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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This|
Originally Posted by Doc_Scorpion
So, now they'll have to dig through this forum too... and this is an improvement, how?
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When someone wants to find a grav/storm build they will have to dig through 80 pages of brute builds to find it.
If this is a "give me a build" forum, I'm not seeing how begging for one here is easier than begging for it in the AT forums. Oh well, we will see how it goes.
The forums in general are scary to a new player. People just get in too big of a rush and will not take the time to actually read/learn.
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I forsee this being the biggest problem. Even though this thread says "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" you will still have people posting however they want. You already have 3 out of 5 threads that have been posted differently then what was provided as the format. Of the 2 that i've seen actually look accurate they are still off. I don't know how they can screw up such a simple task... |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I believe that if you give it a chance and follow the suggested format..
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I like the idea but it seems like it is going to take more control then it is worth. I would follow what someone else mentioned, place the AT sections as a subforum for this or simply split the AT sections in to Builds and Advice/General under each AT.
Example:
Scrappers
- Builds
- Gameplay/General
-X2-
@x2crunner and @x2crunner2
I'll certainly try and give this a chance, but as someone who tends to help out primarily in the tank forums you're now asking others, like myself, to keep track of yet another forum to help people with build advice.
Should this forum get enough traction and we get a large influx of build advice requests that cross all ATs, I'm not going to waste a lot of time weeding for Tank specific threads as I'm sure I'll get frustrated doing so. I suspect I won't be the only one.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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So for who is the forum actualy made?
All fun and stuff, but new players and f2p veterans have little to no use in this forums, IO's and Incarnate are unavailable to them. Most builds with IO's are made to have certain 'dump powers', not making them that efficient for non-IO players.
Then look at the 3 topics currently in this forum:
1. Only a mid-export dump
2. Short forum and export dump
3. FULL forum and export dump
Not only people are overwhelmed by the huge list of information, there is no info about the exact usage of the build or purpose of the build (farmer, pvp, casual, cheap, max recharge etc).
And even if people ever get IO acces, you even seen the IO's used? Apocolypse, Kin Combat, Lotg's and Hami-O's, whats the freaking use for that on a avarage player?
Like you said:
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Useless.| But what about from the viewpoint of people who have either never been to the forums or are completely new to our Community? |
Asume, in time, this forum will be filled with non-confirming-the-format-topics of freaking expensive IO-set builds, how can new people search in that? In the AT topics there are only AT-related builds, only AT-related questions. This will just be a dump-place for anyone who made up some fictional build in Mid's without _any_ reason or explenation why the build was made this way.
Looking back at the guides (though some old), several great players even gave several builds in their guide, from SO's for 20/32/50 builds to IO builds and even the 'freaking expensive but perma-stuff' IO builds. They gave hints and tips, variations on certain sets due whatever reason, that is stuff new players want to read, not some dump-hole of fictional builds.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
While I'm no longer part of the team that develops the software, it does still sport my name, so I'd like to make an incredibly pedantic correction to Avatea's post.
My nickname is "Mids", not "Mid", therefore if you include one, the apostrophe goes after the 's'. Mids' Hero Designer, not Mid's.
Aside from that, go forth, make awesome builds, and have fun! 
@Mids - Proud Member of Honourable United on Defiant.
MidnightAvenger - lvl 50 Invul/SS Tank
Sapphire Serenity - lvl 50 MA/Regen Pacifist
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Any plan that requires everyone to read the stickies and follow this guideline is doomed from the start. Expect anarchy.
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Originally Posted by Avatea
please always use the following format
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Indeed. One assumed that when they said "We're going to rearrange the forums" that was aimed towards making them less convulted, not the other way around. |
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Interesting seems kind of like an unneeded extra forum.
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| You're still more than welcome to cross post builds on the AT specific forums if you like, |
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Ok, seriously... what server did you try this on? |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Recently, I've spent time talking to people who were new to the game, and even asking people, where can I find builds (I was incognito of course). Very few folks could point me to one place, the usual response I got was "On the forums...." and when I asked "Yeah, but which forum" the response was almost always "I don't know" or "You have to really dig through the AT and General forums".
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I believe that if you give it a chance and follow the suggested format we can make this forum a place for folks to naturally gravitate to for builds, specifically. Plus, we can give better visibility to Mids updates here and sticky each update.
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Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
Oh, also... out of the 5 threads in this forum at the time of writing precisely 0 (yes, that is zero, none, nada) follow the required format as described in the OP.
.... 1 is close though.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
I was, and I am, very excited about this. I love builds, and all the time I find myself making a build and wanting to share it. So when I saw this I got excited. Now I have an official endorsement to just share may builds.
I cant wait to post up a few favorites!
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Adding yet another forum through which players can search seems like it will just add to the complexity of a build search. The hoped for new response to your question, Z, is now: "You have to really dig through the AT and General and Build Workshop forums"? (by "General" forums, are you referring to the AT & Powers General Discussion forum? I don't see many builds there. A player who has received this as a suggestion will figure out this out pretty quickly). Unless build threads are automatically cross-posted from the AT forums, I don't see how this will become a 'repository' of builds.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Recently, I've spent time talking to people who were new to the game, and even asking people, where can I find builds (I was incognito of course). Very few folks could point me to one place, the usual response I got was "On the forums...." and when I asked "Yeah, but which forum" the response was almost always "I don't know" or "You have to really dig through the AT and General forums".
You're still more than welcome to cross post builds on the AT specific forums if you like, however we're trying this forum out as a central repository of all builds, regardless of AT. |
Let's say I do a search in this forum for Fire/Fire Tank. I'll get the threads relevant to a fire tank, as well as fire blasters who've mentioned 'tank' in the thread ("Wait for the tank to establish aggro, then etc etc"), fire brutes ("Looking for a fire brute build to tank with"), and so on. What we need are not more forums, but improved search tools.
Mids updates automatically, I don't see how we need a sticky for that.
I believe that, for those of us who will try to precisely folllow the requested title format, we may need a place to put a purpose (beyond mere pvp or pve) in the header/title.
I propose that clarifications go at the end. Example:
SHARING - PVE - Controller - Ice Control / Force Fields - MIDS' Included - Soloing build 1-50
Thoughts?
Also we might want to tighten up the Mids part. Maybe have MIDS or NOMIDS there.
Example 2:
SHARING - PVE - Controller - Ice Control / Force Fields - MIDS - Solo 1-50
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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This. I actually loved it back when we had the tagging system up and I could search for tags like 'plant/kin', 'fire/fire', etc. I'd get posts with builds that had been tagged as such.|
Originally Posted by EJI
Let's say I do a search in this forum for Fire/Fire Tank. I'll get the threads relevant to a fire tank, as well as fire blasters who've mentioned 'tank' in the thread ("Wait for the tank to establish aggro, then etc etc"), fire brutes ("Looking for a fire brute build to tank with"), and so on. What we need are not more forums, but improved search tools.
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Maybe bring the tagging system back in a limited form - such as when you make a post, there is a premade list of tags to choose from (all archetypes, all powerset combos, and general tags like 'build advice').
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That's kind of a hard-hitting point. Perhaps the forum should be repurposed for specifically SO-based (and Hami-O?) builds without pay-for powersets.
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Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
So for who is the forum actualy made?
All fun and stuff, but new players and f2p veterans have little to no use in this forums, IO's and Incarnate are unavailable to them. Most builds with IO's are made to have certain 'dump powers', not making them that efficient for non-IO players. Then look at the 3 topics currently in this forum: 1. Only a mid-export dump 2. Short forum and export dump 3. FULL forum and export dump Not only people are overwhelmed by the huge list of information, there is no info about the exact usage of the build or purpose of the build (farmer, pvp, casual, cheap, max recharge etc). And even if people ever get IO acces, you even seen the IO's used? Apocolypse, Kin Combat, Lotg's and Hami-O's, whats the freaking use for that on a avarage player? Like you said: Useless. Asume, in time, this forum will be filled with non-confirming-the-format-topics of freaking expensive IO-set builds, how can new people search in that? In the AT topics there are only AT-related builds, only AT-related questions. This will just be a dump-place for anyone who made up some fictional build in Mid's without _any_ reason or explenation why the build was made this way. Looking back at the guides (though some old), several great players even gave several builds in their guide, from SO's for 20/32/50 builds to IO builds and even the 'freaking expensive but perma-stuff' IO builds. They gave hints and tips, variations on certain sets due whatever reason, that is stuff new players want to read, not some dump-hole of fictional builds. |
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This is a particularly good idea since the official proposed term "excluded" would mean, "no Mids allowed", as apposed to the intended, "no Mids provided".|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Also we might want to tighten up the Mids part. Maybe have MIDS or NOMIDS there.
Example 2: SHARING - PVE - Controller - Ice Control / Force Fields - MIDS - Solo 1-50 |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EJI
Let's say I do a search in this forum for Fire/Fire Tank. I'll get the threads relevant to a fire tank, as well as fire blasters who've mentioned 'tank' in the thread ("Wait for the tank to establish aggro, then etc etc"), fire brutes ("Looking for a fire brute build to tank with"), and so on. What we need are not more forums, but improved search tools.
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Endorse this as an alternative, but respectfully request that in the specific case of Scrappers, the subforums be titled thusly:|
Originally Posted by x2crunner
I would follow what someone else mentioned, place the AT sections as a subforum for this or simply split the AT sections in to Builds and Advice/General under each AT.
Example: Scrappers - Builds - Gameplay/General |
Scrappers
- Punching Stuff
- Punching Stuff and Yelling, "Wahoo!"
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Originally Posted by Midnights_EU
While I'm no longer part of the team that develops the software, it does still sport my name, so I'd like to make an incredibly pedantic correction to Avatea's post.
My nickname is "Mids", not "Mid", therefore if you include one, the apostrophe goes after the 's'. Mids' Hero Designer, not Mid's. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I said that, too, on the first page!|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
THANK YOU! That's been bedeviling me for a long time -- the Titan Network folks appear to have it right, but the overwhelmingly random general usage on the forums made me doubt which was correct.
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So, in protest to the title format (it's too wordy and doesn't allow for details), and in accordance with SinergyX_EU's post, I've posted a topic specifically for Free players!
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Yes, but then you also had your avatar.|
Originally Posted by DeProgrammer
I said that, too, on the first page!
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Edit: Ok, it's not part of the avatar, but you get the point.
Duo MoITF - 26:06 | Duo MoKahn - 25:50 | Duo MoLGTF - 29:34 |
My title...I didn't ask for it, I didn't choose it, and I didn't put it there. Haha. I requested a change.
I'd like to add some final thoughts about the addition of this forum.
I really feel like this will splinter the main AT forums.
So going forward, do people post their build requests here, or in the main AT forum?
If they want to find some ideas for a build, do they look here, or in the main AT forum?
As was mentioned earlier, should people fail to follow the suggested formatting, how will they search this forum for something that is focused on their wants/needs?
I also believe that some of the folks who normally help people with their builds won't bother coming here because
A. they don't realize this has been created,Looking at it from a very basic viewpoint. The main AT forums could be considered document folders: one each for Scrapper, Blaster, Defender, Etc. Now you've added a miscellaneous folder that also has some of same files, but now you've spread it between two folders. And how does that redundancy make things simpler? How does that make it "more organized"?
B. they don't have time to go through a second forum looking for posts, or
C. they'll find separating specific AT build questions/requests into two forums to be inefficient and a waste of time.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Aw shucks, my very own forum, you shouldn't have, Avatea. :P
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Using a forum for sharing this info is and always was a hack. CoH needs an official web-based character builder, with the ability to share/browse/rate/comment on builds.
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
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Would you link that post please?
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Which Zwill said they weren't going to do, so what is it you're going on about again?
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I don't think it is too much to give it an honest try and avoid assuming that there are poor intentions behind it.
It could work out better! Give the idea a chance!
While I was indeed surprised, I just recently saw people talking (in game and on the forums) about where they should be posting about and looking for specific builds.
Now, I don't know why there'd be confusion, but I can't dismiss the fact that I witnessed some of it.
I'm not even saying that this is enough to warrant such a forum... But, hey, the head of community relations thinks it is a good idea and it is zero sweat off of my back (nor anyone's), so, let's see!
I could see some benefit of having a focused area for it. Especially just simply giving a focus to Mids' and its existence for new players (those who don't always ask and get our numerous responses saying "paragonwiki and Mids... use them... love them!").
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan