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I'm sorry, I just don't see how this simplifies things.

Before, if I wanted build advice for an Ill/Storm, I'd go to the controller forums and wade thru the last 2 or 3 pages of posts looking to see if an Ill/Storm build had already been posted. (I think it's rude/silly/lazy to create a thread asking for build advice if such a thread has already been recently posted.) If I don't find one, then I would create a thread asking for recommendations.

Now you're saying, that after I do that, I then need to come to THIS forum, search thru 12 or 13 pages of Controller builds, Defender builds, Scrapper builds, Tanker builds, Blaster builds, Corruptor builds, Brute builds, Mastermind builds, Dominator builds, Stalker builds, HEAT builds and VEAT builds. And then, if I don't find what I need, create an identical thread to the one I've already created looking for build recommendations.

@Zwill and Co, I know you are trying to simplify things for everyone, but I don't see how this approach simplifies things.

I feel badly for the devs. Whenever they try to change things for the better, we (not individually, but collectively) have a huge fuss before even giving it a chance.

I get this, though. Once I've figured something out, I HATE when that thing changes. My poor husband gets the brunt of this in my house, because each time he changes the set up for my computer - changes to make it EASIER FOR ME, mind you! - he gets fussed at. And it's not because I'm actually MAD at him! I'm not! I'm touched and happy that he went to that effort to do something sweet for me. But, understand, I am a technological neanderthal. If he changes things, I HAVE TO LEARN NEW BUTTONS! This is very aarrggh-inducing! I rant! I MUST let out this inner angst about the trauma of ... NEW BUTTONS!

Have you ever looked at a universal remote? First of all, how do they know it's universal? Have they actually checked with anyone living on Mars, or Alpha Centauri, or wherever? So, first off, I already know they're lying to me. Then, the buttons are all in different places. How is that universal? Or even planetary? They are all different, meaning it will be WEEKS before I can watch TV with the lights off, not squinting at the stupid remote because I tried to turn the volume up at a critical part of the show, and turned on the Home Shopping Network instead. Now I am DOUBLY sad that Steve Jobs has passed on, because now he will never design a remote that make any sense to me.

Yes, I digress... Um, maybe a lot. But change is arrggh-inducing. Maybe it's because I like this build-area idea, but maybe because I'm so often the perpetrator of the irrational ARRGGHYOUMOVEDTHEBUTTONSANDBESIDESTHISWON'TWORKONJ UPITORYOUSTUPIDGRRRRAARRRGH rant, only to feel guilty about it later, but maybe we should try it out before hating the idea.

Instead of feeling frustrated because the whole build section will be clogged up with SS/Fire Brute builds, can't we look at the half full part of the glass and say "YAY! Now I can finally learn something about Brutes, without wading through 14 pages of farm builds! YESSS!!" And to be honest, that is EXACTLY the reason I like all the builds being somewhere else.

PS I am pretty sure my next toon name is going to be Lobotomized Chimp

I also find that passive-aggressive self-righteous superiority is it's own special kind of rudenss.

While I don't necessarily agree with all of Plainguy's opinions, I do think he has raised a good point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger Recently, I've spent time talking to people who were new to the game, and even asking people, where can I find builds

Not only was the question too broad and vague, but Zwill was asking complete newbs who naturally are not going to know a dog-rotted thing thanks to the poorly written tutorial and the video presentation as CoH's "main" page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainguy Because Zwilligner asked 3 level 10 players hanging around atlas a poorly worded question it means we need a new forum to consolidate all the Archtype builds all together ?.. If it were that important why not ask every player in the form of a poll when they log in...? I polled... Guess the results. All but 1 person knew where to ask for a build or where to post one which was not this new forum. The one person that didn't know was a F2P player that didn't understand why he couldn't get IOs or what IOs where let alone why he couldn't do Incarnate stuff. I told him to PM Zwillinger on the forums. He said what forums. He didn't know we had a forums because he thought the website was nothing but that F2P page with the video. He didn't know there was a link on the top of the page to get into the website. Go figure. He did mention that someone asked him right when he zoned into atlas what a build was or how to get one. Being only level 2 and new he didn't even have a clue what he was doing let alone what a build was or a website. He did complain to me that the tutorial was confusing. I guess that might have been zwillinger who ambushed him. Zwillinger should maybe jump on that tutorial complaint since this guys was confused with that and didn't understand it. ...

Again, Zwill's "research" seems flawed, and quite skewed.

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I don't get the logic here. You are deprecating the SG Recruitment forum because those threads are more suitable for the specific server boards (which makes sense) yet you are creating a general builds board and taking posts out of the specific AT boards where, IMHO, they make more sense to reside.

If I want help with a tank build I'd head for the tank forum, not start trawling through a board of random builds on the off chance I can find a tank one amoungst all the scrapper, brute, stalker, etc. ones.

Well now that the first page is full, its obvious the Build Workshop needs to be split up for separate ATs.......

Now that the subforum has some threads in it I can say this much:

What a mess.

Hurts my eyes trying to scan those threads looking for something relevant. All I see is:
SHARING
SHARING
CRITIQUE
SHARING

OY!

This is from the PoV of someone really adept at using the forums. Someone that spends 6+ hours a day skimming the new posts. So I'm pretty sure I'm better equiped to pinpoint specific threads at a glance far easier than true newbs.

It's a mess.

Not only that, without it all those new players that come here looking for build advice would end up in the general section and by proxy, would be inducted into the community. Now, with this subforum, it's that much more likely that any new player coming here looking for builds is just going to come to the subforum, find one, then try to apply it without knowing the nuances...

No sir, I don't like it.

Change for the sake of change isn't always a good thing. Would it have been that difficult to add 'Builds & advice' under the description for AT subs or even General?

Given that this forum is already on its second page of threads... seems to be working out.

I agree with MaestroMavius, the syntax used for topic titles here is unfortunate, in my opinion. My eyes are naturally inclined to start reading from the left - and to look at caps first, so I'm lost in a sea of SHARING and CRITIQUE before getting to the important information.

To be fair, I think the idea is alright, but the execution could be much better.

New players are most likely going to be freebies. As previously noted, freebies can't use IOs, which means that they will find builds to be pretty much useless. I assume that most freebies will be casual players, so there won't be a need for min/maxing builds out (would need IOs/sets, really, anyways), so there wouldn't be that big of a need for the builds to all be in one spot. And since freebies are read-only on the forums, they can't ask questions or even post/request builds themselves, so aiming this forum towards them is even more useless.

(In the case of new VIPers, I think they would still be more concerned with learning about the powers than learning about the uber combos/builds and min/maxing.)

That said, if they were really that interested in learning about builds, powersets, etc., they could turn to the AT specific boards themselves. The guides would be more useful to new players than builds are.

And any vet VIPers who don't know anything about the forums probably don't care anyways. If they did, they'd be here.

All builds into one small area is going to lead to builds never getting looked at. With builds categorized into each AT usually builds are looked at and discussed as fully as they will be before they disappear to page 2 never to be looked at again.

There's going to be a lot of awful builds never contested in this section. That's a promise.

In the build workshop part could be builds that are finalised and worth remembering, put into a section and easily found. Just to cut down on how many times people end up asking for an Inv/SS build there could be "Here look at what the Tanker community agrees on" and "here's what the Brute community agree's on."

Its a great idea to give Mids some official visibility. However I think this forum is a seriously bad idea as it just splits information. Now I have to look in two places for the same info. As it stands this forum can only flourish at the detriment of the AT forums

SUGGESTION: Is it possible to get make "Mids Build" a thread option? So that thread flagged appropriately would appear in two places? In the AT forum and here? I've done that myself with some forum software, no idea if its possible with this.