Street Justice - Some info, review, and FAQ
By
BigBlackAfrica,
Posted on: 2011-10-04 13:41 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I think you just need to learn to maximize combo damage and no one can say they mastered a powerset that was just released. Besides, it's fast I have heard, which is a rarity for a melee set. Claws, Katana are fast, MA would be if you didn't have to chase the stuff you kick, but MA has too many kicks to be a martial art, to me.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
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Absolute load of crap. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
No I say dont buy it, if you want to have any reasonable aoe.
Its a very weak aoe and doesnt offer enough otherwise. UNless you want to have someone powerlevel you or you will team all the time and leech off other people's aoe, you are going to have a very very long trip to 50 once you hit the 30's when you start needing a thousand or so mobs for each level. |
Saying that anyone who plays Street Justice is going to be nothing but a leech on teams with AoE is pure and utter bull feces.
I don't know what people YOU team with, but I have never been refused a team, or given crap while on one for not having enough AoE.
I don't know where you got the idea that AoE is the be all end all of the game, but there are quite a few things you can do for which too much AoE is a bad thing. Solo an AV with Electric Melee or Spines and tell me how useful all that AoE is.
Did it ever occur to you that there are people who like different things in a powerset? I bet not.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Soloing an AV is NOT a general practice of the public.
Soloing +1 x4 is...
Doing TF's is.
also I never said you would kicked from a team from low aoe, just you would be leeching their greater contribution.
Like it or not a weak powerset = leeching.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Please prove that the set is weak before making statements like yours in the future.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Like it or not a weak powerset = leeching.
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I'm going to start calling you Derp. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Like it or not a weak powerset = leeching.
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Hey Derp,
Did you know that there are other AoE powers in Armor Sets and Patrons?
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Two comments to your statement:|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Please prove that the set is weak before making statements like yours in the future.
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1. Why prove things when you can spout unfounded, rage-inducing rhetoric?
2. During Crey missions, you can bet your *** that I love seeing a single-target focused scrapper or stalker on my team when I'm on another character.
Those Paragon Protectors at +3 or +4 need quite a beating to bring down. Taking them down takes about two to three times as long as the rest of the spawn.
The fascinating thing about Shubbie is that the wronger he is, the more self confident he becomes. But sure, Shubbie, go ahead and cry for a refund because street justice sucks. Of course it does. There, there.
Granted, I haven't had time to level one up (and power leveling is not my thing), but I rolled a SJ/SR brute last night and got him to 6 before beddy-bye time. Felt pretty crunchy and powerful to me with just the first three attacks. With a reasonably filled rage-bar, I'd approach a standard 1 lieut/2 minion pack, build combo points on the lieut, and *CRUNCH* 3-pt sweeping cross to the face(s) meant the were all likely down for the count. Definitely looking forward to seeing this one at higher levels.
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That's supposed to be Fire Blast's specialty however; doing more damage than everything else, at the cost of having no secondary effects to aid survival. A Fire Blast set that did the same damage as Beam Rifle would be inferior to Beam Rifle.
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Originally Posted by Mephe
Edit..
After looking at fire blast a bit more, blaze is just so out of whack that it also needs to be nerfed. Its animation time versus the damage it does make every other blast set look like crap. Beam even with disintigration going cant get close to fire blasts high DPA of blaze. |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
actually im dropping this discussion as a new thought occured to me.
I can choose, any, every or no reason to dislike a powerset. Anyone can.
If it was a standard free powerset, Id make a bit of fuss like I normally do when I dont think a set performs and then drop it, not play it and never think about it again.
But this is different, because I paid for it, so just dropping it and not playing it is not an option.
There is no good reason why this set should not be properly previewed with numbers, and animations before you actualy buy it, and then further what to do if you do have an unhappy customer.
So Im moving my discussion over to my refund topic on the general discussion board.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Personal insults, best you can do... sad.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
I'm going to start calling you Derp.
Hey Derp, Did you know that there are other AoE powers in Armor Sets and Patrons? |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
I am somewhat of a powergamer (generally attempting to maximize the efficiency of any AT/powerset combo I am playing), but all this hyperfocus on min/max to the extreme of shunning entire powersets because they don't live up to some magical 'power level'.
Not every powerset is as hyper efficient as others at certain elements of the game, this is true, but I played Street Justice on beta. It's plenty powerful to get the job done, and frankly, lots of fun. Plop some IOs in it and go to town. Is it the new top dog for single target or AoE DPS? Most likely not. But it creates a wonderful illusion of playing a street fighter in City of Heroes with great animations, and does plenty enough DPS to be more than enough for anything in this game.
Would you shun someone because they were sidekicking and -1 to the team and therefore 'leeching' by not contributing as much as the others? Would you shun someone for playing an iTrial and only being a +1 incarnate? I'm guessing, these likely make a more significant effect on their DPS potential than being Street Justice versus Super Strength. I can understand having personal disappointment with the set, but I would heartily disagree that playing Street Justice is 'significantly inferior' to any other Melee powerset. In fact, I think I like it just as is.
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Where did you buy street justice from? I got mine free from the paragon market with my free points, didnt pay a cent for it. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
That is wrong, you pay for access to game, you paid 40$ for all the original sets, good and bad.
Now you are paying 10 for one and only one set. And its not worth the money. |
In other words, I only continue to pay my monthly sub and I am going to get every new powerset for free. If you blew all your points on emotes or some crap you can still wait and get the powersets for free, eventually.
You can't really blame NCSoft for your impulsiveness.
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I have to ask.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Yes but i can make it somewhat uncomfortable for them for putting out junk and charging a premium even if Im stuck with it.
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Why didn't you wait to buy it? You're paying for a set. If you care this much about performance, you don't go buying it as soon as it's released, you get details on it first.
And in fact, this is preferable, as if more people do this, then the more likely the sets are going to be AWESOME, as the more players like you, the more they'll have to up the sets as they go along, to make sure they sell them.
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More players need to realize this.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Where did you buy street justice from? I got mine free from the paragon market with my free points, didnt pay a cent for it.
In other words, I only continue to pay my monthly sub and I am going to get every new powerset for free. If you blew all your points on emotes or some crap you can still wait and get the powersets for free, eventually. You can't really blame NCSoft for your impulsiveness. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Advocating personal accountability on the internet? Good luck with that.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
More players need to realize this.
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@Starflier
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I like it.
I'm not overly concerned about it having massive AoE. (what is with the obsession with everything having massive AoE anyway? Does everything have to be a farming set?) |
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Originally Posted by Dispari
If your only requirement for a set to be good is that it has to be better than SS, you'll probably never play another melee set again.
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Claws and Dispari pretty much sum up my thoughts. Regarding the whole "it doesn't measure up to SS" crud. Like Dispari said...if that is your measuring stick...then most anything short of a powerset full of nothing but earth-shattering kabooms of "I win" is probably gonna fall flat. Or at least that's the impression i sometimes get from all the forum posts i see about the uberness that is SS. Personally...i think that SS blows! (GASP! Imagine that. A SS hater!) I've never gotten a SS toon past level 8. It bores me way too much and is too slow for my tastes.
StJ isn't SS...get over it.
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Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
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OK, this post is so broken it needs to be corrected.|
Originally Posted by Mephe
So this to me needs to be thought about at a higher level. I think we all will agree that StJ cant match SS's single target or AOE DPS for a brute or a tanker.
So do non free sets mean that they must be balanced around the best set in thier AT in order to meet the expectations of the buying public? I think all sets need to be balanced around the best, and if the dev team thinks the best is too good, then they need to fix that. Lets look at beam rifle, the only other pay set. It definetly is not the best AOE set, but it is close to fire in single target DPS. Beam has a crashless nuke that hits pretty darn hard, and other side effects that help it be competitve to fire. Personally I do think SS needs to be nerfed some. It can't be king of single target and AOE DPS. I would drop its single target DPS to less than StJ, and footstomp needs to be dropped to a 8' AOE. Fire melee should be king of AOE. Edit.. After looking at fire blast a bit more, blaze is just so out of whack that it also needs to be nerfed. Its animation time versus the damage it does make every other blast set look like crap. Beam even with disintigration going cant get close to fire blasts high DPA of blaze. |
First of all, SS is not 'king of single target'. In fact, without using a ridiculously powerful pool power like gloom, SS is mediocre in terms of single target damage.
People like SS because it has great aoe. And people like having great aoe because in this game, you routinely fight multiple foes. And this being an mmo, people tend to team, making the number of multiple foes you fight increase, which makes aoe even more valuable. Than add to that the fact you get more rewards for killing more enemies faster, and obviously that leads players to want more aoe even more.
So your solution is to nerf a set customers clearly enjoy, and make it more like sets customers do not enjoy? That's just a really, really bad plan, for reasons that should be obvious.
If you want the game to thrive, then you want to give your customers more of what they want, not less. Make new sets on par to SS, and buff up the old sets to bring them up to date. I literally feel bad for players on single target toons in the new incarnate stuff, because it makes aoe even more of the game than it was before. And its not like the enemies have gotten easier to deal with - just look at the feedback when the praetoria zone was released. The answer is not to make SS be more like ice melee, the answer is to make ice melee more like SS.
And finally, if you're REALLY concerned with 'overpowered' in this game, focusing on some melee set and somehow not noticing how buffs and debuffs ridiculously overshadow anything a melee set can do is just ridicuwrong.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Where did you buy street justice from? I got mine free from the paragon market with my free points, didnt pay a cent for it.
In other words, I only continue to pay my monthly sub and I am going to get every new powerset for free. If you blew all your points on emotes or some crap you can still wait and get the powersets for free, eventually. You can't really blame NCSoft for your impulsiveness. |
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Originally Posted by BrandX
More players need to realize this.
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Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Something funny. |
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I did buy points since I got Beam and Steampunk before this.|
Originally Posted by RaikenX
...and this. Now...if you actually went and BOUGHT $10 worth of paragon points (800 pts) and THEN purchased Street Justice. Ok...THEN you might have a leg to stand on. Personally...i didn't pay a dime.
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IM very satisfied with both purchases.
So yes I actually payed for it.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Looks like the whole scrapper and brute forum disagrees with you (well at least the ones that have done countless hours of testing):|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
OK, this post is so broken it needs to be corrected.
First of all, SS is not 'king of single target'. In fact, without using a ridiculously powerful pool power like gloom, SS is mediocre in terms of single target damage. People like SS because it has great aoe. And people like having great aoe because in this game, you routinely fight multiple foes. And this being an mmo, people tend to team, making the number of multiple foes you fight increase, which makes aoe even more valuable. Than add to that the fact you get more rewards for killing more enemies faster, and obviously that leads players to want more aoe even more. So your solution is to nerf a set customers clearly enjoy, and make it more like sets customers do not enjoy? That's just a really, really bad plan, for reasons that should be obvious. If you want the game to thrive, then you want to give your customers more of what they want, not less. Make new sets on par to SS, and buff up the old sets to bring them up to date. I literally feel bad for players on single target toons in the new incarnate stuff, because it makes aoe even more of the game than it was before. And its not like the enemies have gotten easier to deal with - just look at the feedback when the praetoria zone was released. The answer is not to make SS be more like ice melee, the answer is to make ice melee more like SS. And finally, if you're REALLY concerned with 'overpowered' in this game, focusing on some melee set and somehow not noticing how buffs and debuffs ridiculously overshadow anything a melee set can do is just ridicuwrong. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=267544
SS/Fire has the highest single target DPS potential of all the melee toons. Everybody can take gloom so adding or removing gloom from the calculation has no impact.
SS/Fire also has the best AOE damage. That's a problem. Balance is important, no one powerset should be the best at everything.
But don't worry, they probably wont nerf SS until they port it to scrappers, when they see just how insanely broken it really is on a high damage melee class.
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Should of saved the points from not buying the Steampunk pack, which was a Boosterpack to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
I did buy points since I got Beam and Steampunk before this.
IM very satisfied with both purchases. So yes I actually payed for it. |
You're spending free points on content that you had to pay for before anyways, then complaining about having bought more points to buy something that would of been free, if you had saved you free points.
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Your post is filled with inaccuracies too. Let me help.|
Originally Posted by Mephe
Looks like the whole scrapper and brute forum disagrees with you (well at least the ones that have done countless hours of testing):
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=267544 SS/Fire has the highest single target DPS potential of all the melee toons. Everybody can take gloom so adding or removing gloom from the calculation has no impact. SS/Fire also has the best AOE damage. That's a problem. Balance is important, no one powerset should be the best at everything. But don't worry, they probably wont nerf SS until they port it to scrappers, when they see just how insanely broken it really is on a high damage melee class. |
We were talking about SS. SS is not king of single target damage. SS/fire is a top single target damage COMBO, but again, you're bringing in a specific secondary and using a pool power, neither of which is part of SS. The reason the ss/fire combo is so good is due to rage buffing the outside powers of a secondary that delivers damage, and pool power that does considerable damage, and even still there are other powersets on par with fire ss in terms of single target damage. Take SS with most secondaries and you will find several other powersets that outdamage it in terms of single target damage. It's a similar situation you see with ill/rads, ill/colds, and fire/rads, etc - its a combo situation you're pointing out, it's not specific to a powerset itself.
Secondly, you're talking about 'balance' but only looking at an extreme, end game example, and looking at a powerset combo rather than the powerset itself. That's not a good way to balance something. Leveling up a SS is not the greatest treat in this game (assuming you play the game rather than have someone power level you). No honest person who is familiar with the set would claim SS is 'overpowered' from level one to fifty. And it's easy to ignore all the drawbacks like the fact it has virtually no aoe until the 30's and the endurance issues the set causes, because you're only looking at extreme end game builds.
I've seen this before with energy melee. People were taking it and talking it up on the forums because it was good in pvp due to its burst/exotic damage, and the devs mistook it for evidence that the set was overpowered in pve. So they nerfed it and now the set lies broken in the corner. If they do that to one of the most popular melee sets in the game, it will severely damage this game. This game needs more sets like SS, not less. If you disagree, I can guarantee you that you and the nerflings are in the vast minority on that one. I could provide links of all the posts where people talk about how much they like the set, but that's probably not necessary, is it?
And finally, again, if you're really concerned about balance in this game, why aren't you focusing on the buff/debuff late game combos that can do things melee toons can only dream about?
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Yeah, Super Strength is too good! I actually think it needs even more nerfs! It shouldn't be good at ANYTHING! Cut the duration of Rage in half and double its recharge time, make its ridiculously long recharging AoE a SIX foot radius, eight is just too big, and DOUBLE the animation time of Knockout Blow! I wanna see the wind-up arm spin last at least 3 seconds. Also decrease its damage, it's just too much!|
Originally Posted by Mephe
Personally I do think SS needs to be nerfed some. It can't be king of single target and AOE DPS. I would drop its single target DPS to less than StJ, and footstomp needs to be dropped to a 8' AOE. Fire melee should be king of AOE.
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Or, instead of making a good set suck, we could make the sucky sets good?
Nah, too much effort.
Its a very weak aoe and doesnt offer enough otherwise.
UNless you want to have someone powerlevel you or you will team all the time and leech off other people's aoe, you are going to have a very very long trip to 50 once you hit the 30's when you start needing a thousand or so mobs for each level.