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Corsets are close-fititng items of clothing - they're going to have some of the smallest amounts of clipping |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Oh but they clip with back items if you use a couple of animations, so they are out.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
But the CoT are letting girls in now.
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Well who else is going to fetch the tea and biscuits, or do the washing up?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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You'll get some form of clipping if you carry on like that |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Well who else is going to fetch the tea and biscuits, or do the washing up?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Shoulders, weapons, wings, backpacks. Not just at the default pose but think of running, jumping, attacking, etc.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The bad: The pope hat is pretty much a hat that goes straight up. What could it possibly clip with?
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@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Corsets are close-fititng items of clothing - they're going to have some of the smallest amounts of clipping
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And the pope hat is a hat.
As in on your head.
As in the only way I can see it causing enough clipping issues to have it removed is if we're about to get a new Vogue powerset.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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As a Dev there are really only two major types of "complaints" you have to deal with when it comes to whether a particular costume item clips too much or not. The first is "Costume item X sucks because it clips with too many other items" and the other is "We should have access to costume item X because we want to use it no matter how much it clips with anything else". Basically I think you are far too worried about the first type of compliant when in actuality the second type of compliant should be far more troubling to you.|
Originally Posted by Positron
What is more likely the case is that the pieces in question clash with over 20% of the other pieces in that area (cutting through geometry, in general looks really bad). In these cases we reserve the right to withhold these pieces in order to maintain the good looking characters you guys are capable of.
Not an answer that will make everyone happy, but we do our best to ensure that a vast majority of our costumes, current, past, and future, work with everything else. Not everything will fit the bill, and just work with one or two other pieces, but that is a situation we work hard to avoid in the first place. Sometimes a look just has to win out though, and the piece gets made anyway. It's just that we work under slightly different guidelines when concepting and making parts for an NPC group than we do for PC costumes. |
You already have a simple stock answer you can use to respond to the first type of complaint: "We try to do our best to make sure all of our costume items avoid clipping issues as much as possible but sometimes certain problem combinations are going to happen. We're sorry." It's nice, clean and simple and requires no further action on your part.
But when it comes to the second complaint you really don't have a legitimate excuse for your overly-conservative decisions. In effect you are saying "We don't trust our players enough to decide what looks acceptable to them so we are going to waste time second-guessing for them".
It all boils down to which complaint you'd rather hear more often. Would you rather hear the occasional whiny "Costume item X is broken (when we all know it technically isn't)" rant or would you rather hear a majority of people upset that they don't have more freedom to use all the items they want? The choice between these two seems obvious to me.
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Get out of my head!|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
If the Carnival of Light pack doesn't have any masks in it, because there is a risk of clipping, then that (along with the Circle of Thorns pack) will make the first two costume packs that I don't buy.
I don't have a single barbarian-type character, but I bought that on the first day. I'm a costume *****. I absolutely love all the options. But since you didn't give us those with the Circle pack, I'm out. I'm sad, and I'm out. |
I wasn't that keen on the CoT revamp, but some of the higher up bits are nice.
But we don't get those - we can dress as a grunt.
Whoopee do.
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Then why are there still TONS of costume parts that DO clip through geometry, Pos? Why is that rule true some of the time and not the rest of the time? As a general rule of thumb, players WON'T create stuff that clips horribly but, really, shouldn't it be up to the players to decide what looks good and what doesn't? Why else would I (for one) keep seeing comments from you guys about 'Wow, we didn't expect to see that used like that...that's actually really cool!' etc?
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Originally Posted by Positron
Hey everyone,
I know there is some disappointment in a few of the COT pieces that didn't make it into the package, and I want to dispel some of the rumors that we do this to keep unique pieces in the NPC's hands. What is more likely the case is that the pieces in question clash with over 20% of the other pieces in that area (cutting through geometry, in general looks really bad). In these cases we reserve the right to withhold these pieces in order to maintain the good looking characters you guys are capable of. Not an answer that will make everyone happy, but we do our best to ensure that a vast majority of our costumes, current, past, and future, work with everything else. Not everything will fit the bill, and just work with one or two other pieces, but that is a situation we work hard to avoid in the first place. Sometimes a look just has to win out though, and the piece gets made anyway. It's just that we work under slightly different guidelines when concepting and making parts for an NPC group than we do for PC costumes. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Agreed. Sadly.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
So you spent all this time redesigning the CoT group so you could release Player cossie pieces for it, attracted a vast thread criticizing many of the changes (as well as some hilarious new memes), redesigned it again and then when it comes to release many of the things people were looking forward to aren't included because of "clipping issues".
Time well spent. Kudos to the art team. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well said. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Then why are there still TONS of costume parts that DO clip through geometry, Pos? Why is that rule true some of the time and not the rest of the time? As a general rule of thumb, players WON'T create stuff that clips horribly but, really, shouldn't it be up to the players to decide what looks good and what doesn't? Why else would I (for one) keep seeing comments from you guys about 'Wow, we didn't expect to see that used like that...that's actually really cool!' etc?
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Whenever I'm designing a new costume, I always have to take clipping into account. It's just a function/limitation of the game.
That is, unless it's one the devs deliberately place on us.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Ok, I can see where the big hat and the long skirt would clip. That I can accept, and see where the Long skirt would play hell with the MA and StJ animations also. For the live of me I can't figure out what the strapped gloves, and the spiffy bejewled belt would clip with.
Well, I can see for story reasons why not to give the belt. The strapped gloves though?
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Problem is, none of this will be 'valid'. The amount of faith in the playerbase seems to be nearly non-existent and 'it's for our own good'.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Well said.
Whenever I'm designing a new costume, I always have to take clipping into account. It's just a function/limitation of the game. That is, unless it's one the devs deliberately place on us. |
I don't expect much further comment on this, t'be honest. When it comes to most stuff like, it seems the norm is to be 'We are Law' and all that.
While I love Freedom and First Ward and such-not, I'm still not happy enough to drop certain points that still seriously irk me.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm pretty sure all clothing is just an accessory for female Carnies.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Headwear is always an accessory - the Carnie corsets are their basic clothing, so they'd have to be included to make an actual outfit.
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Because tails and hair and various hat-hair don't clip with a huge amount of jackets.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Ok, I can see where the big hat and the long skirt would clip. That I can accept, and see where the Long skirt would play hell with the MA and StJ animations also. For the live of me I can't figure out what the strapped gloves, and the spiffy bejewled belt would clip with.
Well, I can see for story reasons why not to give the belt. The strapped gloves though? |
Because nearly ALL the shoulders don't clip hugely with most jackets, which in some cases actually creates some good stuff.
Because-
Yeah, you get the drift. 'Because it clips' is the worst excuse to still be trotted out. It might as well be a skeletal horse for the amount of times it's been trotted out to die and be flogged...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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They're probably saving it for a random low-level named NPC.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Well, I can see for story reasons why not to give the belt.
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I have never witnessed the Forcefield bug on my characters nor seen it with anyone else's, but I will take your word for it.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Let's see...
*Since I2, my long hair has been poking through my cape. The female Glam hair is completely and utterly unusable with any and all back items period, yet it still exists, and is not alone in this. *Since I16, custom colour Forcefields have been misaligned and failed follow the character through animations. You always stand outside your own bubble and every animation you make sends you out of your bubble. I've bugged that multiple times. *No body aura currently covers my winds or my weapons, so while my medieval armour may glow a brilliant white, my shield, sword and wings do not and cannot. All of that's just fine, but pope hats that may slightly clip with a few animations is just crossing the line? My question remains: What did the pope hat clip with so much that made it unusable when the High Collar cape clips with EVERY SINGLE SHOULDER PIECE and with a good half of the available hairs in the game? |
I was talking about animation clipping exclusively. I agree that Positron's explanation does not make a ton of sense given the examples you have presented. However, the examples you gave all involve pieces that have been in the game for over 2 years at this point. Since then the Devs may have adopted a "no further clipping" policy where, as Positron said, if a piece they are considering porting over clips with over 20% of the currently available pieces, it is then not ported over.
Of course then there's the argument "Then why not go back and fix the pieces that do clip?" You know as well as I do how big of a fan they are of revamping old stuff...
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
Do we not get the big gloves or wingy back details? Come on!
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Problem is, none of this will be 'valid'. The amount of faith in the playerbase seems to be nearly non-existent and 'it's for our own good'.
I don't expect much further comment on this, t'be honest. When it comes to most stuff like, it seems the norm is to be 'We are Law' and all that. While I love Freedom and First Ward and such-not, I'm still not happy enough to drop certain points that still seriously irk me. |
Because sooner or later the Dev Defense Force, will arrive and drown out anyone who has an issue with the way things are happening.
Is it any wonder that the dev's have such a high amount of hubris about their actions, when they've got dozens of bum lickers, applauding every move they make?
It's not hard to feel like a God, when all you can listen to is the yes men.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Winter: That would be a valid point...IF the argument 'But stuff clips' hadn't been used for as long as I can remember being on the forums.
CB: T'be fair, you're not helping our side. We're trying for reasonable argument here, not a flamestorm. Hell, *I've* been accused of being a 'Dev Apologist' when posting on threads during the many downtimes, because I view necessary hardware upgrades somewhat more essential than damaging a few peoples pretendy fun-time time. (Because hey, I couldn't play then either. But I found other stuff to do, problem solved)
However, there is a valid counter to the 'no clipping' excuse, and I for one would rather not have bad-mouthing detracting from it (hopefully) being taken seriously.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In one hand I can say I wish the long skirt would of been added. In the other hand, I understand what its like when a specific piece of equipment/clothes etc... are not coming out the way they should.
Personally I think people are just a little to grouchy this morning due to missing the ability to play the game they enjoy I for one am one of them. I have a great story arch I'm excited to finish.
I do find it a bit silly when some people begin arguing over the fact that the pointy hat wasn't in though. If you think about it, there is probably all sorts of clipping issues that could come of it. (various hair styles poking out from all over the place, certain character head shapes poking out and showing odd angles.. these are just some of the things I think of when I think about what Posi was saying.) Designing clothes to fit a playable character vs. an npc is so different it's almost mind boggling.
I only know this fact because in a different game from this one, I designed clothes for characters. Different shapes effected the clothes differently, and it was very time consuming. So much so, that sometimes I would decide not to create a certain item for that specific set at that time for just that reason. Because it was taking too long to make every aspect of all shapes/sizes work with it.
I'm not saying that people may not have a valid reason to voice their complaints. But at least try and look at it from their point of view instead of only seeing it in 2D so to speak. 
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Vanessa DeVore approves (+4).
| I'm pretty sure all clothing is just an accessory for female Carnies. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I should post pictures of my favorite WS. His hair clips with...his head. Yes, for some reason, his hair is situated below the horizon line of the skull. So he has long flowing red/orange hair...with an egg dome sticking out of them middle of it.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, you get the drift. 'Because it clips' is the worst excuse to still be trotted out. It might as well be a skeletal horse for the amount of times it's been trotted out to die and be flogged...
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Hey, now if I only had a nice tall hat I could use to cover that egg dome bald spot...
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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The puffy shirt from the Steampunk pack clips with 100% of characters because the neck bulges into it. So it's not even an "old vs. new" thing.
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
I was talking about animation clipping exclusively. I agree that Positron's explanation does not make a ton of sense given the examples you have presented. However, the examples you gave all involve pieces that have been in the game for over 2 years at this point. Since then the Devs may have adopted a "no further clipping" policy where, as Positron said, if a piece they are considering porting over clips with over 20% of the currently available pieces, it is then not ported over.
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NOOOO!!!!!11111 Don't say SNEAKPEAK!!!
Oh well, at least I won't have to spend any real money on Paragon Points this week either.