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Right, I was going to reply to someone else, earlier, reminding everyone that.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
so you and Feycat are kind of in agreement here?
Also, bumping because I'd really like it if the Devs could give further feedback. Looking back on Positron's post, it seems even HE didn't know the real reason why many of the pieces were held back. |
Posi just offered his own guesses and stated them as such. It's not his department at all. So, it is very cool that he came in and responded and always appreciated, but yeah, people shouldn't take that and run with it (too much, at least).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I feel the same as you and Feycat (and many others). It does feel a bit more like the kind of set we might have gotten in a regular issue (a bit fancier with the skirt-thing, perhaps).
Not that's there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but their price point may be a bit off. One or the other - More stuff or lower cost - Is my general feeling about it. |
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| To be honest, I had a small feeling that the Barbarian set was just a bit light... But, the more I looked at it and played around with it, the more versatile I saw a lot of the options (never mind when counting the actual number of items). |
I was so happy when the simple "Tights Slick" option was finally added to gloves and boots. I'd love to see more stuff like that. Like a plain choker, for example.
They could really flesh out "light" packs with things like that.
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Honestly, even after I looked through all of the Barbarian options (and liked what I saw) I still felt like it was a bit short. Mainly because of what I felt it didn't have and/or how some options were limited and/or how some options should have existed across the different gender models.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's just it - I raised hell about the Barbarian set being too small and excluding too much stuff, but when I saw what was actually in the set I was gobsmacked. The Barbarian set has A TON of stuff, much of it unique to the set and much of it opening new possibilities. The male loin cloth unprecedented, the arm rings are a whole new ball game and even the female fur-trimmed skirts are brand new stuff. Most of that set brings with it brand new themes. I was wrong about the Barbarian set - it had more than enough stuff in it, and it was well worth the 400 points I spent on it. Hell, I feel it was worth even more and like a cheated the studio by paying just 400 points. I would have easily paid 800 points for the Barbarian set without a second thought.
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It just felt like... a bit more work here, a bit more time there, a bit more mutual availability all around... And it would have been close to perfect.
I felt that way about the Animal Pack though... And the Steampunk Pack.
Sometimes, getting options that you like, but can't use the way you want to can be more frustrating than never seeing the option at all, hah.
The great barbarian loincloth thing for males: I'd love to see that for females (along with a fur chest covering). It also came with the w/tights option which... while very cool, is a bit odd, because those tights are super tight and look like tights and it seems a bit incongruous with the theme. Leather or hide pants (without the muscular detail showing through because they're so tight) seems like a better option. And, even more so... making the fur loin cloth a skirt/kilt option would enable us to use any and all of the pants/legs options (which would just be fantastic!).
The other major peeve of mine with that set is the awesome Barbarian sword and how much I wish they made one for the Katana sets.
All of that does, often times, go hand in hand with delivering something good though. Just the way we all complain about this and that or ask for this and that for the game... the better the game is and the more options it provides, the more options we imagine to be added and the better we want things to be!
A selfish lot these things make us... But that's okay. It's what makes the mmorpg go 'round.
So, yeah... Devs... Give us all the CoT stuff, all the barbarian stuff I mentioned above, Titan-Arms, huge and muscular females, fruit baskets and free trips to Hawaii, because we love you!
Anyway...
Also, check SteelClaw's great post in my sig and follow it!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Oh, good dear, yes!! Haha |
Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
...
I was so happy when the simple "Tights Slick" option was finally added to gloves and boots. I'd love to see more stuff like that. Like a plain choker, for example. ... |
However, I am still upset, because the sleek boots have not been given to Male -> Flat.
It had to be an error or something. I'm pretty sure the other models have them. My main character uses all tights - body, gloves, legs and flat feet... And I always wanted to have an alt version with the sleek look, but it doesn't look right to me with the heels of the smooth boots.
Haha... anyway!
I started this thread, so I can go way off track all I like, right?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Yeah, I agree. I was so happy when Tights Sleek was added to Big and Banded boots and gloves that I... Wait, is my nose getting longer?
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Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
I was so happy when the simple "Tights Slick" option was finally added to gloves and boots. I'd love to see more stuff like that. Like a plain choker, for example.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The pack has 12 costume parts right?
400 points = $5.00
5.00 / 12 = $0.42/ea
This is higher than the current average for costume parts (which I think is closer to 38 but I don't remember offhand), but it's still much better than the totally absurd $1.00 per part of the backpack and volcanic aura. I personally don't intend to spend more than 50 cents for any one costume part (or collectively as a pack). But I'd still like to see the numbers closer to 30 than 50.
300-350 points for this pack would've been a much more fair value. Try to consider how many parts are in the pack in the future, devs. Don't just slap 400 on all of them regardless.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Earlier, someone (I forget who it was, but it was a redname) said that they priced all legacy Booster Pack costume sets at 400 Paragon Points for consistency, I assume with their respective Boosters, even though the "savings" wasn't consistent between them. Some offered a saving of only a few cents, some offered a saving of a few dollars.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
300-350 points for this pack would've been a much more fair value. Try to consider how many parts are in the pack in the future, devs. Don't just slap 400 on all of them regardless.
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While this is a good idea in principle, tying yourself down to a set price with variable levels of content creates just these problems - you end up charging way too much for some things but are still unable to lower the price because then you'd be charging way too little for others.
Far as I'm concerned, Costume Set Bundles should offer a set percentage discount and the bundles themselves should be priced by whatever the sum total price of all separate costume pieces is. Sure, it might produce some steeper costs, but it's not like those costs aren't real right now if you go through the editor and buy them piece by piece.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I couldn't resist, I had a little fun. Mind you, this guy fails at replicating the real energy mages, since he lacks the high collar, gauntlets, and capelet, not to mention the coat tails. But here you have it, Stupid Sexy Mage!
full size image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3121754...n/photostream/
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
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Off topic, but:|
Originally Posted by Amanita
full size image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3121754...n/photostream/ |
You can actually make thumbnail links here by simply listing your smaller picture enclosed in IMG tags as the text portion in the larger URL tag, with the actual link directing to whatever you have in its link tag. I'm not sure if that would have worked for you in this case, but I just wanted to go ahead and say that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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While I bought the pack, as I'll still have uses for the pieces present in it, place me with those askin': "Where da hell my Pope Hat at?"
I wanted to pop back in and add to this topic. I really want to thank Posi for posting here. While I did not particularly like what he said, I am still grateful that he cared enough to say anything. I also think we are near spoiled because of how great our Dev team is. Any other game I have ever played would have just not commented, and expected the players to suck it up. So, Thanks Posi. It means more than you know to a lot of us.
I still want the rest of the CoT costume items, and I am still willing to pay for them.
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Yeah, I really hope the rednames/marketing/whoever will reconsider and release some more of these parts, or modify them a bit so we can use them. It's not that it's a bad set, far from it! I've made some sweet combos with the CoT skirt and Samurai breastplate. But the real problem is that of all the parts made, there is just far too little of it available to us.
The new CoT NPC costumes are IMHO, pretty damn cool. Too bad we were teased with all of those lovely parts, then palmed off with so little.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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¬.¬
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Anything that can be defined as "a something" is not a signature NPC.
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Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
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In October, I will probably choose the Barbarian set over CoT, because the pieces in my view are more versatile.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's just it - I raised hell about the Barbarian set being too small and excluding too much stuff, but when I saw what was actually in the set I was gobsmacked. The Barbarian set has A TON of stuff, much of it unique to the set and much of it opening new possibilities. The male loin cloth unprecedented, the arm rings are a whole new ball game and even the female fur-trimmed skirts are brand new stuff. Most of that set brings with it brand new themes. I was wrong about the Barbarian set - it had more than enough stuff in it, and it was well worth the 400 points I spent on it. Hell, I feel it was worth even more and like a cheated the studio by paying just 400 points. I would have easily paid 800 points for the Barbarian set without a second thought.
The CoT set isn't even a shadow of the Barbarian one. It's small, it's samey and it's missing too much stuff for too many people. It's not BAD, in the sense that if I had those options, I'd use them. However, it doesn't bring nearly enough to the table to be worth it as a bundle, not by a longshot. A lot of what it has, good though it may be, is "like" a lot of what we already have, and the couple of pieces that are worth in it aren't worth 400 points without my good will, and I lost my good will when I saw what was in that set. CoT is not a bad set. It's just too small to be called "a set." This either should have been held back, or it should have been announced at Part 1 of a larger set to come later. Because, as you say, even Matt Miller doesn't seem to know what's going on, and if even he isn't up to speed, a second CoT set was never in the cards to begin with. And that's just bad. |
Jokes aside, I agree with Sam on this. I bought this pack kinda assuming it would be comprehensive with regards to Circle of Thorns costumes. I mean, hell, as I recall it, we were told that part of the whole reason behind the redesign (or at least, one of the driving factors behind the -way- they were redesigned) was so that the new CoT could share the costume wealth with the players. And it was implied that we would get some nice, longer-than-previously-available skirt/robe options. I -think- I remember that being implicitly stated, in fact, but I'm not confident enough in my recollection to say that as fact.
I kinda feel like I got hit with a bait-and-switch, here. I'm gonna be a little more twitchy about future costume set releases.
Jason Heavensrun
Swift : Freedom Server
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/CheckmateStudios
Check out my first Architect Arc, "Bring Up the Sun", arc #339507, and let me know what you think!
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I agree with this sentiment with a few additional thoughts of my own. I'm among the people that dislikes the CoT revamp but felt that the individual pieces would be good for player outfits. Knowing it would eventually be available I set aside part of my point stipend and waited for its release. Upon seeing what was and wasn't in the pack I'm boycotting it. It seems rather poorly thought out to redesign an enemy group for player use...only to not let players use the pieces. In a weird way, they sort of shot themselves in the foot by releasing the vastly superior Barbarian pack so closely to the CoT pack. Despite some of my problems with the Barbarian pack, it had a lot of really useful pieces. Most important to me was the belt which was the very thing I wanted the most from the CoT set. Intriguingly, the cloth CoT belt we got was what I wanted as opposed to the oddly missing jewel belt since it was a nicely generic mage belt. I mean the thing that bugged me the most about the Magic pack is that it's a "magician" pack instead of a "mage" pack. But in voting with your dollars I'm avoiding the whole CoT set unless more is added.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
So you spent all this time redesigning the CoT group so you could release Player cossie pieces for it, attracted a vast thread criticizing many of the changes (as well as some hilarious new memes), redesigned it again and then when it comes to release many of the things people were looking forward to aren't included because of "clipping issues".
Time well spent. Kudos to the art team. |
Also, there's a lot of...oddity...in what's missing. I can't see what the gauntlets, cape, and jewel belts would have clipped with. The hat is by far the biggest offense since it's the very piece that connects the old look of the CoT to the new and it's one of the things that actually sold people on the revamp. If pieces were lacking female or huge variants that needed to be completed, either holding the set back or reassuring people that they were on the way would have really calmed the situation. I mean, looking at the CoT ad picture it is rather bland and lacking variance when compared to the ad pictures used for other booster packs, even including Barbarian, which could have been alleviated with the boss/LT pieces.
I also wonder if some chances to think outside the box weren't used. For instance, I was surprised that the waist cape was done as a skirt/kilt as opposed to a belt like the Martial Arts pack but that probably was a smarter idea. However, why not do the longer waist cape as part of the trenchcoat category? It would allow a dedicated mage cloak while having a looser lower body part. It might even be a way to work the gauntlets in. I'll concede that one of the problems with the gauntlets for players is that it's effectively a four color piece. You could get around this by allowing the base color to be a "sleeve" option while letting the gauntlet get its own colors as a glove option. Why not do a piece from the robes section? I think there's a pretty sizable amount of additions could be made with some brainstorming and feedback.
As far as the feedback process...well, that's better suited for the other art thread.
I feel kind of like a hypocrite for buying the pack, but I am still hoping that more will be added to it, and that somebody really IS reading this and taking notes.
As for the gauntlets, surely they could have worked out texturing that works with our 2 color choices. Surely they could have taken some more time and proliferated more pieces to female and huge. Surely they could have modified the hat so we could use it, considering what an iconic piece it is.
I would have been willing to wait for all of these, for the sake of having a better pack. I'm sure a lot of players would have. But instead it got rushed out with as little as possible, and some pretty strange lines drawn as to what was excluded or not. And we have no way of knowing if this very unpopular decision will ever be revisited, or if we're stuck with this.
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Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
I have nothing to add here that hasn't already been said; however, I bought the set, despite serious reservations, and feel compelled to add my comments to slightly offset my vote-by-wallet.
As others have said, I think it's absurd to redesign a group with an eye to giving the pieces to players -- and then not give them the best, and most desired, pieces. If NPCs are going to have pieces we can't, I'd just assume see the COT back in their full robes. I'm even more miffed by the COT redesign than I was before, because we didn't even get much out of it aside from another overly busy costume minus all of the "exotic" pieces that would have made it exciting.
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"The Best" and "most desired" are opinions.|
Originally Posted by KidLazarus
I have nothing to add here that hasn't already been said; however, I bought the set, despite serious reservations, and feel compelled to add my comments to slightly offset my vote-by-wallet.
As others have said, I think it's absurd to redesign a group with an eye to giving the pieces to players -- and then not give them the best, and most desired, pieces. If NPCs are going to have pieces we can't, I'd just assume see the COT back in their full robes. I'm even more miffed by the COT redesign than I was before, because we didn't even get much out of it aside from another overly busy costume minus all of the "exotic" pieces that would have made it exciting. |
The more exotic something is, the less use you can get out of it, and therefore a tougher decision for the art team to spend more time on (or not) giving to us.
I'd rather they give us a set that's in the same general family as the look the NPCs have, and make parts that are more interchangable with parts that aren't a part of the set, than spend an inordinate amount of time giving us a special hat so 5% of the players can use it on one costume.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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And I feel completely the opposite way. As far as I'm concerned, the best pieces are those that fill niches which couldn't be achieved by the editor before, and "tall hats" is precisely one such niche. By contrast, I really have no use for another rubbery leathery bodysuit to add to the other, what, five? that we already have.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
I'd rather they give us a set that's in the same general family as the look the NPCs have, and make parts that are more interchangable with parts that aren't a part of the set, than spend an inordinate amount of time giving us a special hat so 5% of the players can use it on one costume.
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By and large, the costume creator has far too many holes for me to be satisfied with redundant patterns when the actually innovative pieces don't make it across to our side.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The CoT snakeskin tights are really nice, I'd love to see that snakeskin look for bare hands, bare feet and a head option. I want to be CoT snakeskin from head to toe.
The snakeskin should be available under baggy shirts and baggy pants.
Also that CoT pattern we can put over the tights, that pattern should be avaible on all tights. It's very similar to Sinister and that pattern is avaiable on all tight and baggy options.
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I respectfully disagree.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
"The Best" and "most desired" are opinions.
The more exotic something is, the less use you can get out of it, and therefore a tougher decision for the art team to spend more time on (or not) giving to us. I'd rather they give us a set that's in the same general family as the look the NPCs have, and make parts that are more interchangable with parts that aren't a part of the set, than spend an inordinate amount of time giving us a special hat so 5% of the players can use it on one costume. |
I would have used the heck out of quite a few of those omitted pieces.
Adding my voice to this. Want the longer "skirt" option, the little cape, the collar, the pope hat and whatnot. All of it please and let us worry about the clipping, which is already so rampant with so many pieces.
GV
So to sum up people's opinions, Devs: Don't you worry about clipping, let us worry about blank.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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The CoT set isn't even a shadow of the Barbarian one. It's small, it's samey and it's missing too much stuff for too many people. It's not BAD, in the sense that if I had those options, I'd use them. However, it doesn't bring nearly enough to the table to be worth it as a bundle, not by a longshot. A lot of what it has, good though it may be, is "like" a lot of what we already have, and the couple of pieces that are worth in it aren't worth 400 points without my good will, and I lost my good will when I saw what was in that set.
CoT is not a bad set. It's just too small to be called "a set." This either should have been held back, or it should have been announced at Part 1 of a larger set to come later. Because, as you say, even Matt Miller doesn't seem to know what's going on, and if even he isn't up to speed, a second CoT set was never in the cards to begin with. And that's just bad.