Devs Haet Hoarding
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Dear lord, it's Jack 2.0, only without all the nerfs.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
The fact that they shifted from the shard incarnate salvage to threads proves that the devs hate hoarding. I'm positive that come the new incarnate slots they will introduce yet another incarnate salvage system.
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It would be possible to use the same currency and to gate the new powers by time instead, but people hate that even more than new currencies.
I agree. If they didn't, thousands of players would have enough salvage to create all the new incarnate slots without running a single trial.
It would be possible to use the same currency and to gate the new powers by time instead, but people hate that even more than new currencies. |
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
![](http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isgreen.jpg)
This. Along with all the other reasons I dislike the Incarnate System, the continually confusing currencies makes me want to avoid it like the plague. I really do wish the Devs would follow the KISS mentality sometimes.
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Sod that malarky. I want fun, not grindage. Devs need to get a clue.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And this is why I don't bother with the incarnate system anymore. If they're going to make all my effort pointless, I won't bother wasting the effort in the first place.
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This. Along with all the other reasons I dislike the Incarnate System, the continually confusing currencies makes me want to avoid it like the plague. I really do wish the Devs would follow the KISS mentality sometimes.
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I usually collect enough of the new stuff on Blue and Maroon and when they're done I don't bother with it any more. That way I don't get frustrated when something shiny and new comes out about all of my "wasted" time collecting the other stuff.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Yeah, multiple currencies are complexity for the sake of complexity, they only add problems, not solve them.
So why not just collect enough to open whatever it is you want/need and then not bother with it if we already know there's going to be a new one for the next big thing?
I usually collect enough of the new stuff on Blue and Maroon and when they're done I don't bother with it any more. That way I don't get frustrated when something shiny and new comes out about all of my "wasted" time collecting the other stuff. |
No doubt when the next bunch of slots arrive, the devs will depreciate the old ones difficulty (kinda like they did the alpha), and then I might finish them off... Maybe.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
A lot of what was done with Incarnate Threads/Components could easily have been done with Incarnate Experience.
Unlock a slot, then begin levelling up an ability, selecting the branches you want it to grow into. So I could select Cardiac, and set it on a path to level with iXP to whatever.
BAF and Lambda would level your Alpha and then either your Judgement/Lore or Interface/Destiny depending on which you did. Keyes and Underground would level your Alpha, Judgement/Lore and Interface/Destiny.
Astral Merits and Empyrean Merits would be in place for conversion to iXP or to be redeemed for items from the two vendors in Ouroboros.
If you levelled up a branch of Alpha to full, you could select something else to level up so you can switch between them. The iXP can't be hoarded, so there's no issue of rushing new incarnate slots with it.
A lot of what was done with Incarnate Threads/Components could easily have been done with Incarnate Experience.
Unlock a slot, then begin levelling up an ability, selecting the branches you want it to grow into. So I could select Cardiac, and set it on a path to level with iXP to whatever. BAF and Lambda would level your Alpha and then either your Judgement/Lore or Interface/Destiny depending on which you did. Keyes and Underground would level your Alpha, Judgement/Lore and Interface/Destiny. Astral Merits and Empyrean Merits would be in place for conversion to iXP or to be redeemed for items from the two vendors in Ouroboros. If you levelled up a branch of Alpha to full, you could select something else to level up so you can switch between them. The iXP can't be hoarded, so there's no issue of rushing new incarnate slots with it. |
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
So why not just collect enough to open whatever it is you want/need and then not bother with it if we already know there's going to be a new one for the next big thing?
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I agree with Zortel. If it had been based in IXP instead of multiple recipies, salvage and currencies, I'd be more inclinded to look at it more often. If more of these are introduced with the next incarnate slots, it'll just put me off even more.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
![](http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isgreen.jpg)
I've suggested similar before, it's a far more sensible solution. Use the incarnate trials to actually unlock the slots initially (but provide other ways to do that too), then let the player select the branches they iXP goes towards (and you earn iXP from any level 50 mobs). It'd be a far more enjoyable way because, primarily, you're NOT forced to grind those bloody trials.
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This is 'End Game Contentâ„¢'. You're meant to grind, and meant to like it. Now get back to raiding, damn your eyes!!
Yeah, see my sig for my stance on iTrials...
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I personally think the Dev's would be fine if they kept the current currencies () for the new slots, but made the XP for unlocking those slots only available for whatever trial(s) they are released with, and removing the option to buy XP for said slots. This way, they can ensure that the new content would be run while dictating how often it would be run by adjusting the progression rate of iXP.
I personally think the Dev's would be fine if they kept the current currencies (
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In fact, I think I'd rather eat my own foot.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Do you prefer blueberry or raspberry sauce with that? I can whip both up no problem!
Also, I really like Madam Z's elegant solution. Because it's elegant and simple.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Astral Merits and Empyrean Merits would be in place for conversion to iXP or to be redeemed for items from the two vendors in Ouroboros. If you levelled up a branch of Alpha to full, you could select something else to level up so you can switch between them. The iXP can't be hoarded, so there's no issue of rushing new incarnate slots with it. |
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
A lot of what was done with Incarnate Threads/Components could easily have been done with Incarnate Experience.
Unlock a slot, then begin levelling up an ability, selecting the branches you want it to grow into. So I could select Cardiac, and set it on a path to level with iXP to whatever. BAF and Lambda would level your Alpha and then either your Judgement/Lore or Interface/Destiny depending on which you did. Keyes and Underground would level your Alpha, Judgement/Lore and Interface/Destiny. Astral Merits and Empyrean Merits would be in place for conversion to iXP or to be redeemed for items from the two vendors in Ouroboros. If you levelled up a branch of Alpha to full, you could select something else to level up so you can switch between them. The iXP can't be hoarded, so there's no issue of rushing new incarnate slots with it. |
I honestly pity new players these days trying to wrap their heads around TOs, DOs, SOs, IOs, HOs, SHOs, Merits, Alignment Merits, Astral Merits, Empyrean Merits, Threads, Shards and probably another half a dozen I've forgotten about. If ever there was a time to simplify this stuff it would be now, before you have an influx of new players.
Many of us don't find running the SAME mission again and again and again particularly enjoyable.
In fact, I think I'd rather eat my own foot. |
Right, well that's a complaint that people have already and I think it's been addressed pretty clearly: You'll have more trials as fast as the Dev's can make them. I should have been more clear in my first post, any trials that came out with the new slots in addition to any that followed should award the xp for the new slots.
So farming the BAF wouldn't achieve anything in terms of progressing towards new goodies (aside from collecting components, which I think is fine.)
Right, well that's a complaint that people have already and I think it's been addressed pretty clearly: You'll have more trials as fast as the Dev's can make them. I should have been more clear in my first post, any trials that came out with the new slots in addition to any that followed should award the xp for the new slots.
So farming the BAF wouldn't achieve anything in terms of progressing towards new goodies (aside from collecting components, which I think is fine.) |
Plus, it makes a mockery of the storyline.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I agree. If they didn't, thousands of players would have enough salvage to create all the new incarnate slots without running a single trial.
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Second, what the hell are you talking about? Without running a single trial? How the hell do you think they GOT their current salvage? Running RIDICULOUS amounts of trials!
And with the differentiation between 4 types of salvage (Common through Very Rare), the dumb luck of acquiring anything in the last two tiers and the absolutely punitive up-conversion costs to build the rare and very rare salvage if you aren't getting the drops. I'd say it's only natural for people to hoard this stuff.
And if they happen to be able to get the top-tier of the next slot(s) before they dive into the new content that accompanies the slots, so be it. EVERYONE isn't doing it. And these people have put the effort into accumulation. Why not let them enjoy the fruits of their labor?
It would be possible to use the same currency and to gate the new powers by time instead, but people hate that even more than new currencies.[/QUOTE]
In various places, the game designers and developers have made it known that they dislike hoarding and try to prevent it from happening in the game. I've never really thought much about it other than a small, schadenfreude-fueled grin from time to time.
However, last night, I caught myself thinking, 'Of course I don't have enough incarnate salvage to make a new enhancer. I hardly ever do trials anymore. Those massive piles of Astral merits? What about them? Ah. Well. Yes... Er..."
I haven't spent a single empyrean or Astral merit on threads or salvage since well before the Incarnate Vendors were added to the game. Despite the fact that I've purchased all the costume pieces available from Astral Christy, I just KNOW there's a chance that the developers are going to lock more costume pieces behind the incarnate system and am, indeed, HOARDING, against the day whether it comes or not.
Why do people hoard? In the real world, people hoard because of fear or worry about possible shortages in the future.
Grandmother Schmidt hoarded canned food up until a few weeks before she died. As a young woman, she'd starved during a WW2-related famine in Europe. Despite the fact that a famine would likely never hit Montana during her lifetime, she'd be damned if she was going to go hungry again out of simple lack of preparation.
The rich hoard money to ensure that one day they and their descendants will still be rich.
Geeks hoard comic books because someday they may want them to reread or sell (despite there being massive DVD collections and a poor market for comics).
In game, players hoard because they perceive that, sooner or later, there's going to be a situation when the hoarded items will come in handy-- like me hoarding Astrals and Empyreans in case new costume pieces are locked behind the Incarnate content.
I had a buddy who played some time back. He was one of the i3-era fire tanks who'd herd vast numbers of enemies and kill the with burn patches. Even after i6, he'd spend hours soloing in the Crash Site (pre i9).
When I chatted with him about it, he was CONVINCED that he was hoarding experience points. As soon as the game developers raised the level cap, all those Rikti he'd been slaughtering would be retroactively be added to his experience bar, and he'd immediately be at the level cap again when everyone else would be struggling to reach 51.
A lot of the players I've spoken to are convinced that as soon as new incarnate abilities are added to game that they will be accompanied by yet ANOTHER currency. If we're very lucky, there will be a crushingly punitive exchange for Astrals or Empyreans to the new currency. Having looked at the above, I'm starting to agree with them.
Hoarding is a natural result of purchasable content. As long as there is content in the game in the form of costume pieces, new powers, or the like that is purchasable through the invention or merit system, players are going to hoard.
If the devs dislike hoarding as much as they indicate, the only way to stop players from using hoarded resources to buy this new stuff is by introducing a new kind of merit or game currency.