Why I hate the new Tutorial
There were several systems that the old tutorials explained which heroes entering the cities at level 2 would need to know how to use. The new tutorial either doesn't try to explain them or explains them practically in passing (kind of like the GR tutorial, which is irritating as all-get-out with its random popups).
|
To be quite honest, the only things a new player needs to learn right off the bat are how to move, how to activate powers, how to talk to NPCs, and how to level. That's exactly what the new tutorial teaches. Anything else can be learned during play.
I can't help it if today's gamer is a coffee-inhaling, sugar-mainlining squirrel. College isn't for everyone. If they want to skip the tutorial they can do so, but those of us who have traditionally played through the old tutorials when rolling alts would like to have seen those old tutorials replaced with something that was worth our time.
|
If you really want to read blocks of text, ask the Devs to make the Help files more accessible and useful. Seriously. They kind of suck.
I like the Apple/Mac comparison, but I was under the impression that the old tutorials *were* the Apple/Mac. This new tutorial is like a bright red power button that lets you know how to turn the PC on, but not much else.
|
1) Customer walks in, is either greeted by a salesperson and walked through the purchasing process or browses to the Mac/iDevice of their choice.
2) Product gets rang through, options are given for such thing as extended warranty and extended training. Customer may or may not get these things at this time.
3) Customer is offered a "personal setup" where said customer can learn the basics of usage, some neat tips-and-tricks, and is set up with all their accounts, but is not bombarded with things like "how to use iTunes" or generally anything more advanced than how to search Google in Safari.
4) If customer buys the extended training (either they realized they needed it already or going through the initial tutorial convinced them they really do need to learn), they can schedule appointments over a longer period of time to learn at their own pace.
Both 3) and 4) are completely optional, but are there to serve specific purposes. The personal setup is there not only to teach a "newb" (in our gaming terms) some of the basics, but is also there for them to figure out whether they need more training or if they can figure it out themselves. It's meant to be short, informative, empowering, not overwhelming, and as stated before, optional.
So the comparison really follows through like this: old tutorial = handing a tech manual over to customer; new tutorial = guided longer-term interactive hand holding.
Ideally, you offer both. A smart company, however, invests in the latter if they wish to keep more customers for longer. Why? Because the majority of people need time to absorb material before moving on to new things. Intelligently structuring this information is important.
Again, this is all designed for what are "average consumers". We may not be average consumers, and that's okay. But I certainly can't blame Paragon for trying the same technique as an Apple Store. It's proven pretty successful, and factually so (i.e. studies and financial metrics have proven it out, it's not just my bias).
There are certainly places I wish the tutorial felt deeper. Optional asides that let new and old players alike explore that first tutorial more without forcing them to spend more time in there (i.e. no badges or extra rewards for staying longer, just lore Easter Eggs, etc.) than they would like. It's bare-bones. Perhaps too much so right now. But the overall sentiment and structure makes sense.
Count me in as someone who hates the new "tutorial" as well.
A "tutorial" is supposed to be a teaching mechanism. This thing doesn't teach squat. It should not even be considered a "tutorial". In my beta feedback, I listed all the things I learned by level 2 in the old tutorial, and compared them to the new... Frankly, there is no comparison. And using 20 levels worth of missions to "fill the gaps" is pathetic. I hate this thing too. Horrible implementation. . |
How to move, how to target and how to level up is all you really need to know for those low levels.
Despite the lack of variety of starting contacts, the new one is better than the extra layer of vanilla the originals were and I'm glad they're gone. They manage to cover Hellions, Skulls, Vahz, Praetorian Clockwork and Arachnos in the early levels (don't know what's in Twin Shot's lv15+ arc yet).
The tutorial is actually not that bad to me, although to be honest it feels more like a commercial more than a tutorial. The opportunity to choose Hero or Villain is nice and so are the voice overs. I'd like to give Paragon Studios credit for doing voice over the right way--short interjections to communicate meaning and not reading every single line of screen text.
I also have to admit I don't understand the fight with the Giant Shivan at the end. I have done the fight a couple of times and have had a lot of trouble targeting and the monster and understanding whether I am hitting it. I still do not understand what the blinking floor panels in this mission mean. Everywhere else in the game a blinking floor panel means the player needs to get out of the way. I eventually figured out the idea was to move monsters into the line of fire, but the blinking panels under the Giant Shivan are unclear to me still--does that mean "get out of the way" or "the monster is being shot by an NPC"--something that happens nowhere else in the game? The Giant Shivan is one of the best Giant Monsters in the game with great animations, but this isn't a real battle. The monster also seems to be "driven back" even if it still has half of its HP.
The way I wish that final battle worked is like this: as the monster emerges, a signature hero or villain casts Shields on all the newbies to explain why they aren't being obliterated. When the monster is driven back, it is announced that the players will need to finish the job in the future. That would set the stage for later action. Right now the event feels like a mini movie. Somehow your extremely weak character drives back a giant demon. Minutes later, she's struggling to defeat a Lost Lieutenant.
I agree about how the new tutorial doesn't actually teach you any of the things you need to know about the basic mechanics of the game. Which, to me, is pretty much the point of a tutorial. I want to learn how to use my powers/skills and use inspirations and enhancements. The new tutorial does not do a good enough job of teaching those things to new players.
What I suggest is putting the old tutorial (or a similar one that teaches the necessary game skills) back in and using the new tutorial as part of the game's story line. Finish the tutorial, talk to Coyote and advance to Galaxy City (this would be the only choice) where you find yourself fighting for your life against the Shivan invasion only to barely escape to Atlas Park where you begin your heroic journey using all the skills you learned in the tutorial and tested in the new "Starter Zone". |
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
You know, I just thought of something: A problem that I've had with the game for a couple of years now - it's shoving theatrics down my throat.
Let's not feign ignorance here - City of Heroes is a pretty standard click-n-kill dungeon crawler where the majority of the meat of the game is going into window dressing dungeon and killing for spoils and money until you reach an objective and kill or click it. Everything else is dressing up the core gameplay in distractions.
To some extent, these distractions are good, in that they enhance the experience, but TOO many distractions actually distract from the actual game with fluff. You see this with the "continuing tutorial missions" that are 90% dialogue trees, you see it with contacts like Roy Cooling whose arc is 90% gimmicks, you see it with Praetoria where half the missions are awkward and devoid of enemies, and now you see it in the new "Tutorial."
The old actual Tutorial had you do things you'd be doing in-game - fight enemies, use enhancements, use inspirations, con enemies and so forth. It was like the game, but with instructions. The new "Tutorial" is - as someone said before - little more than a commercial, shunning actual gameplay in favour of shoving flashing lights, spastic voices and big explosions in your life. It's as if we had Michael Bay design our new tutorial, but without the robot balls. It's all flash and no substance. It's not a tutorial so much as a slightly interactive cutscene. And you know what? My original City of Heroes CD from 2004 came with an intro cinematic. If that's all the "Tutorial" is supposed to be, then why not make a pre-rendered CGI cinematic or a big cutscene or some such? Because that's all this really is.
The funny thing is that the more you try to present an MMO like this action-packed thrill ride of constantly pumping adrenaline and high-octane excitement, the more you'll have people crash and crash hard once they come to grips with what an MMO really is - slow, calm, sedate and methodical. Once upon a time, the old Tutorial was a lot like what the actual game was - you standing around fiddling with your settings, reading text and trying to decide what to do. That's the game in a nutshell, and no amount of theatrics is going to change that. This IS what City of Heroes is. And yet they choose to dress it up like an action game that City of Heroes simply isn't, and in the process serving only to hamper actual gameplay.
You know what a proper Tutorial SHOULD teach players? How to fight and how to run missions, because that's what they'll be doing for the majority of their gameplay.
---
Also, I'm pretty sure the new Tutorial NPCs do have info on them, but not on their right-click menu. You have to select them, then expand the Options dropdown at the bottom of the Target window. There's usually an Info link there. For some reasons, someone decided not to put Info on the right-click menu of any of the new NPCs dating as far back as Praetoria, which really makes no sense whatsoever.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I also have to admit I don't understand the fight with the Giant Shivan at the end. I have done the fight a couple of times and have had a lot of trouble targeting and the monster and understanding whether I am hitting it. I still do not understand what the blinking floor panels in this mission mean. Everywhere else in the game a blinking floor panel means the player needs to get out of the way. I eventually figured out the idea was to move monsters into the line of fire, but the blinking panels under the Giant Shivan are unclear to me still--does that mean "get out of the way" or "the monster is being shot by an NPC"--something that happens nowhere else in the game? The Giant Shivan is one of the best Giant Monsters in the game with great animations, but this isn't a real battle. The monster also seems to be "driven back" even if it still has half of its HP.
|
Let's Dance!
I believe those blinking panels are the vanguard jets blowing stuff up, in both cases. That said, I didn't even notice them, the only floor indicators I really noticed in the giant shivan fight are the meteor impact areas [which are get out of the way].
|
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
I wonder when we'll get a thread from a new player complaining that from what they learned in the tutorial, they swam right up to Lusca and started attacking it and died almost immediately, and what's going on there, are the ingame GMs bugged?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Now as to the new missions in AP. I am already bored to frickin tears of seeing the exact same contacts/missions on every single character. Always having to go thru Kalinda or Burke what killed any interest I had for playing villains, and now AP is doing the same thing. I want my old contacts and missions back where I at least had the illusion of variety.
|
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I have to agree with NewScrapper and Sam that the new tutorial really doesn't teach you much about how to play the game.
And you do have to sit there for a good while making sure your keybinds are correct and all the other things you have to fiddle with. Not just veterans, but new players will want to make sure everything is set. It's the first thing I do when starting a new game.
The old tutorial taught you about conning, enhancements, inspirations, how contacts work. The new tutorial skips all this.
The continuing training missions are less effective in my opinion because it requires you to play the game for quite a few levels before they tell you stuff you need to know from the get go. How to use a Trainer to level your character you learn at what? level 8 or so? Way too late.
I feel there are game mechanics you need to know before you set foot in Atlas Park and the new tutorial isn't teaching new players that. The old tutorial, tedious as it was, did teach you the things you needed to know before you were set loose on the game.
I don't like how rushed you feel during the new tutorial. It was Champions all over again, whose tutorial also took place during an alien invasion. The game even looked quite a bit like Champions, but at least in that game you learned basic game mechanics during the tutorial.
While I applaud the effort to update the tutorial, I feel the devs missed opportunities to actually teach new players the ground rules during the tutorial.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
If the Twinshot arc is now considered part of the tutorial then I think you need to be offered it far sooner. Is there anything it covers that you haven't already done by then? Plus the contact is optional so new players are more likely to miss it than old hands who are looking for new content.
The other new low level hero mission is quite good, if we could have just added that to the existing missions I would have been very happy. Dumping them all for that and Twinshot is a bit crappy imo
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
If the Twinshot arc is now considered part of the tutorial then I think you need to be offered it far sooner. Is there anything it covers that you haven't already done by then? Plus the contact is optional so new players are more likely to miss it than old hands who are looking for new content.
The other new low level hero mission is quite good, if we could have just added that to the existing missions I would have been very happy. Dumping them all for that and Twinshot is a bit crappy imo ![]() |
And yes, there is a bit of redundancy. The trainer exercise is a good example. You most likely have gone to your trainer a plurality of times before doing the arcs, the thing is, it's possible you haven't, and it's just a simple reminder that you should do it fairly often [and personally, the villain dialog for being sent back to the Arbiter is hilarious imo].
Also, a fair chunk of the 'Need to Know' stuff has been covered by those annoying help popups.
And personally, the first three/four arcs [1+(1 of 2)+1] still felt like a tutorial.
But *shrug*, I like the setup myself.
Let's Dance!
And yes, there is a bit of redundancy. The trainer exercise is a good example. You most likely have gone to your trainer a plurality of times before doing the arcs, the thing is, it's possible you haven't, and it's just a simple reminder that you should do it fairly often [and personally, the villain dialog for being sent back to the Arbiter is hilarious imo].
|
Is it possible? I was only given Twinshot as a contact after I'd gone to the trainer and chosen my level 6 power. I haven't tried talking to her between dinging 6 and training but I assume she wouldn't talk to you?
Overall, I think the tutorial should teach you a few more things like others have said (conning, slotting and combining enhancements primarily) and the timing on the Twinshot arcs needs adjusting. Maybe make her the initial contact for AP who then introduces the current one at the end of the first arc? And move the next two arcs to 5 and 10?
I dunno, it's pretty hard to miss the big popup that tells you that you got a new contact and how to reach them... Not like you have to chance on either of them or anything.
|
If new players are supposed to run these arcs and learn from them, then it makes sense to at least let them know that, doesn't it? I'm a seven year vet and I had no idea this was supposed to be a tutorial arc before OR after I spoke with Twinshot.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I wonder when we'll get a thread from a new player complaining that from what they learned in the tutorial, they swam right up to Lusca and started attacking it and died almost immediately, and what's going on there, are the ingame GMs bugged?
Eco |
So learning to get out of the way of incoming damage serves no purpose?
It's hard to miss Twinshot, but there's nothing about her that says "Tutorial." When I played this without even knowing there were "continuing tutorial missions," I simply stuck to my originally-presented contact chain which seemed to offer a consistent storyline and left Twinshot for last. I didn't realise she was supposed to be a tutorial contact until I think three missions in when I was told to go to the hospital, then the police station, then the Market and wait a minute! Are you trying to show me that these things exist? Is that one of those "continuing training missions" I heard about? Well, that would have been useful to know ahead of time!
If new players are supposed to run these arcs and learn from them, then it makes sense to at least let them know that, doesn't it? I'm a seven year vet and I had no idea this was supposed to be a tutorial arc before OR after I spoke with Twinshot. |
And while I can easily see a new player getting into a sewer trial and thus outleveling those tutorial components, I consider it similar to a new player who jumps into AE plvling from tutorial exit. Not as extreme perhaps, but it's a very difficult matter to handle [the popups are really the only option that kinda works out].
(emphasis mine)
Is it possible? I was only given Twinshot as a contact after I'd gone to the trainer and chosen my level 6 power. I haven't tried talking to her between dinging 6 and training but I assume she wouldn't talk to you? Overall, I think the tutorial should teach you a few more things like others have said (conning, slotting and combining enhancements primarily) and the timing on the Twinshot arcs needs adjusting. Maybe make her the initial contact for AP who then introduces the current one at the end of the first arc? And move the next two arcs to 5 and 10? |
My experience may flawed then, I remember Graves at least popping up before I leveled up. May be a memory failure. I do know that the Trainer reference was intended for just the reason of reminding players to regularly train up [thank you UStream].
Changing the arcs like would require some reworking with Twinshot at least, since being sent to north steel canyon at level 10 is a bad idea
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Conning and slotting enhancements are shown through the popups. I believe combining is as well, but not positive. Although, to be honest, the only bad part I think of not introducing enhancements before level 10 is that you get enhancements slots before then. And well, the base enhancement system is a convoluted mess.
Let's Dance!
*scratches head* I don't think you go to the university till Twin Shot's second story arc, which starts at lv10.
Let's Dance!
They changed the way the game was because they WANT to get new players.
|
Kids today aren't all that bright. . . . If the tutorial feels dumbed down, they did it for a reason.
|
So you think the devs feel what's best for the game is attracting stupid customers?
![Confused](images/smilies/confused.gif)
Yes, that was in response to the suggest of making Twinshot's first arc the initial contact, and moving the next two arcs to 5 and 10.
|
Take 'em for all they got!
*facepalm* this is what happens when I haven't slept in 24 hours and try to read some things...
|
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
2) Don't blame yourself, I'm hard to follow under good conditions
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Let's Dance!
OK my 2 cents worth
,as a 5 year vet I do find the first part of the tutorial not of much use to me,but for someone who has never played the game it will help,voice overs nice but you need to listen to it more than once to get it all,a message box would be handy as well.Right we have gone thru the first part and are now in Atlas.First impression wow look at all these people ,where is my first contact ah that guy there with the big coin over he,s head, this could be a bit smaller I think,get the first mission and ah an arrow points to the area no thinking where do I find these guys.And so we continue even as a vet I find these new contact story lines fun and as a new player very informative,as to the way the game is going I think overall this is a very good change.I do enjoy the new trial which I did not know how to join so I asked in the help channel which is the one the F2P people will have access to and a lot of helpful people there as well,so a thumbs up to you guys for passing your knowledge onto others. I think this will increase the game population which the company want and hopefully people will spend lots of cash
so we can look forward to nice full servers and if to many WoW minded players get on VIP players can always retreat to Exalted channel for civilized play and conversation *remove tongue from cheek*
.
Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s