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interesting factoid...|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that he's less of an urban legend in the last 5 years, due to his involvement with the Justice League, and that Stephanie Brown (assuming that her brief stint as Robin is still canon) and Damian are both within the last 5 years.
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Batman, in the cannon of pre-DCnU, was still a semi-urban legend 5 years ago. 5 years ago is when Tim Drake stopped being robin briefly and Stephanie took up that mantle... No Man's Land was only a year or 2 previous to that when he made his first wide scale appearances...and it was until Tim came back as Robin (or was about) that Batman was filmed for the first time.
As I said in another thread. the urban legend bit in the old DCU was effectively removed by Identity Crisis putting Batman back into the Justice League as a founder. There were group photos with him. Hard to be an urban legend when you're riding into battle against Starro in a big green bubble in Happy Harbor with all kinds of eyewitnesses. So the final status quo for Batman in the old DCU was that he might have been an urban legend up until the time that the Justice League was founded, but he certainly couldn't have been afterward.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Well, there was the whole bit in Gotham City Sirens about Selina telling Ivy & Harley that the Batman persona was a mantle taken up by multiple people. Basically, Bats is not just one person, but a whole bunch of guys. It takes on the mythological factor and that ANYONE could be Bats. Granted, it was a sop put in by Talia to prevent Selina from spilling the beans about Bruce, if she was ever put into a position that the information could be forcibly removed from her.|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
As I said in another thread. the urban legend bit in the old DCU was effectively removed by Identity Crisis putting Batman back into the Justice League as a founder. There were group photos with him. Hard to be an urban legend when you're riding into battle against Starro in a big green bubble in Happy Harbor with all kinds of eyewitnesses. So the final status quo for Batman in the old DCU was that he might have been an urban legend up until the time that the Justice League was founded, but he certainly couldn't have been afterward.
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It would certainly fit the MO that Batman could be anywhere at any time.
I read the digital version and didn't see where some of the complaints are coming from. The pacing seemed ok. The characterization was ok: Batman telling Hal he's too bright, preferring the darkness; Hal acting cocky, bragging about what he can do; Superman looking strong. These are the basics. Anyone expecting complexity at this point is jumping the gun.
Not sure I get the Johns hate either. There are comments on AV Club for instance, where they complain about his Silver Age obsession and how he wants to roll back DC comics to that era. They must not have read DC over the past few years. There was only one Lantern Corps back then. He's revamped and created several more. In fact, DC finally rivalled Marvel in telling cosmic based stories, to the extent that the Nova Corps became an imitation of the GL Corps.
I stopped buying comics about 2 years ago, both because of declining interest and to save a couple grand a year. If I like this new crop, it may get me to stop by the ol' comic shop again.
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And one that just doesn't work. I explained that part of the new DC to a friend that's not a regular comic book reader.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Wow. That's a fresh new idea.
(facepalm) |
"But, it's Superman. Everybody trusts Superman."
Keep in mind, I'm Australian. Even people on the other side of the planet know that you can always trust Superman. Why's DC forgetting it to try and copy Marvel?
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Because Jim Lee is in charge!|
Originally Posted by Matrix_Dragon
And one that just doesn't work. I explained that part of the new DC to a friend that's not a regular comic book reader.
"But, it's Superman. Everybody trusts Superman." Keep in mind, I'm Australian. Even people on the other side of the planet know that you can always trust Superman. Why's DC forgetting it to try and copy Marvel? |
Seriously!
Jim Lee was at Marvel, then at Image/WildStorm where the settings had the public not trusting superheroes.
Now, I'm not saying it's a bad setting obviously, as I love Marvel and used to love Image, but it's not really how DC treated their heroes.
Superman! He was trusted by the masses! The JL in general, trusted by the masses.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yeah... the entire "reboot" seems to be fueled by 2 things|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because Jim Lee is in charge!
Seriously! Jim Lee was at Marvel, then at Image/WildStorm where the settings had the public not trusting superheroes. Now, I'm not saying it's a bad setting obviously, as I love Marvel and used to love Image, but it's not really how DC treated their heroes. Superman! He was trusted by the masses! The JL in general, trusted by the masses. |
Johns love of rebooting and rewriting characters his way...
Lee not wanting HIS universe to die and be forgotten...
Hmm. I look at the previews and interviews regarding Action Comics, and I'm left shaking my head. I have to wonder if this is how Superman fans felt after COIE, when Byrne redeveloped the character with Clark being the real person, and Superman the public persona.
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There are simply more story opportunities that come from people not trusting or accepting super powered beings. Story is about conflict. If 90% of people love the JLA and Superman, there's no conflict.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because Jim Lee is in charge!
Seriously! Jim Lee was at Marvel, then at Image/WildStorm where the settings had the public not trusting superheroes. Now, I'm not saying it's a bad setting obviously, as I love Marvel and used to love Image, but it's not really how DC treated their heroes. |
I kind of hope that if they ever do a a CoH 2 with different/revised lore, they take a stance closer to Marvel where not everyone likes supers.
CoH takes the acceptance of metahumans to absurd levels. So much of the Paragon City's infrastructure is build specifically for them. They have their own chain of costume stores for crying out loud. There is so much constant conflict and action in the streets of Paragon city, no sane civilian would want to live there.
Indeed, the only reasons civilians exist in Paragon City is for heroes to save them. It's less a City of Heroes and more a City for Heroes. It's more than a symptom of this being a game designed with that in mind.
Yeah, if there ever is a CoH 2, I'd want it in a world where metahumans are an extremely novel thing to the public, set in a city that's more 'realistic' where super powered humans are an intrusion and they first have to win over the trust of the city officials and the people. Those that don't care to are branded 'vigilantes' and 'villains' and there's your built-in morality system.
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Even in Justice League Unlimited, when the League suddenly revealed that it possessed an Orbital Death Ray and the government started making contingency plans to take them out, the General Public was mostly still, "Well, it's the Justice League. They would never annihilate Beijing from space without a really good reason. It's cool."
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Superman! He was trusted by the masses! The JL in general, trusted by the masses.
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I don't. That's one of the most tiresome of tiresome comic book clichés. It's a sop modern comics writers throw in so that the Jaded Ironic Ennui crowd can get over its innate rejection of good for good's sake (which is what superheroes are supposed to be about) and buy the books anyway.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I kind of hope that if they ever do a a CoH 2 with different/revised lore, they take a stance closer to Marvel where not everyone likes supers.
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Yeah...and not to mention it's much more interesting to explore the other side of the equation... a trusting populous and a flawed hero that has to fight to take advantage of it.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I don't. That's one of the most tiresome of tiresome comic book clichés. It's a sop modern comics writers throw in so that the Jaded Ironic Ennui crowd can get over its innate rejection of good for good's sake (which is what superheroes are supposed to be about) and buy the books anyway.
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Actually, one aspect I'm looking forward to seeing is how the general public gradually comes to accept and trust Superman.
If the JL storyline is set early in their careers, it makes sense that people would be nervous and possibly fearful, of the likes of superheroes, especially one as public and powerful as Superman would appear to be. As they say though, trust is earnt, not automatic. It will be interesting to see how he changes over the years as people come to trust Superman as we are used to. I'm not sure that weve really seen that aspect before?
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
Well, if I read things correctly, both Action Comics and Justice League are set 'Five Years Ago' and both have a six issue arc to kinda bring us 'up to speed' on how things came to be.
This was a first. I just saw a commercial on tv for the new comics. I can't recall ever actually seeing such a thing before.
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Was it this?
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Originally Posted by Dark One
This was a first. I just saw a commercial on tv for the new comics. I can't recall ever actually seeing such a thing before.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
After not having bought a floppy comic in a year, I broke down and got Action Comics #1 (because I love Morrison) and Stormwatch #1 (total whim).
Action Comics #1 was fanatastic. It's modernized, but harkens back to the original Action Comics #1 -- a young, angry Superman that's more into social justice than fighting petty criminals. He's stirring up hornet's nests at the top of the food chain, but the common folks are learning to love him and trust him.
Stormwatch #1 was kind of a mess, but I've never read Stormwatch before in any of its Image or Wildstorm incarnations. But seeing that these new #1s are supposed to allow for new readers, you'd think that it wouldn't be required. As it is, the issue felt rushed, and featured a scene of "superheroes fight instead of talk" cliche. Some nice ideas here though (a sentiant, hostile Moon!), but I'm more likely to skip the next installment.
Animal Man #1 was getting a lot of buzz at the shop as well.
Global name: @k26dp
Just read some of them myself, waiting to get the rest done later.
Action Comics 1 felt.....weird. I can see what they are trying to do, but it takes a bit of getting used to.
Detective Comics 1 was excellent, with an amazing final page!!
JLI 1 was an interesting start but will need some time to gel.
Stormwatch 1. I also don't know the original that well so can't really compare, but was ok. Again, will take time I think.
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
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I'm a little concerned with your interpretation of the original Action Comics #1... considering Superman was not young and he didn't so much as fight as he broke into the governors house, assaulted his employee, and pretty much forced the governor to let a prisoner free who had been sentenced to death legally... beat up a wife beater, stopped lois from maybe being kidnapped... and then listened in on a private conversation between government officials and then threatened a guy to "come clean" with who was "corrupting" the official... So he was more of a spastic psychopath that had pretty much no respect for the system in Action #1... and given his actions if that's what he was doing when he was young then the public would have every reason to be afraid of him.
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Originally Posted by RosaQuartz
Action Comics #1 was fanatastic. It's modernized, but harkens back to the original Action Comics #1 -- a young, angry Superman that's more into social justice than fighting petty criminals. He's stirring up hornet's nests at the top of the food chain, but the people love him and trust him.
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Wow, wouldn't have expected you of all people to be such a defender of the status quo. As I stated, Superman from AC#1 was an agent of social justice, and not necessarily of agent of the law. That's clearly the same direction NuAC#1 is going in as well.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm a little concerned with your interpretation of the original Action Comics #1... considering Superman was not young and he didn't so much as fight as he broke into the governors house, assaulted his employee, and pretty much forced the governor to let a prisoner free who had been sentenced to death legally... beat up a wife beater, stopped lois from maybe being kidnapped... and then listened in on a private conversation between government officials and then threatened a guy to "come clean" with who was "corrupting" the official... So he was more of a spastic psychopath that had pretty much no respect for the system in Action #1... and given his actions if that's what he was doing when he was young then the public would have every reason to be afraid of him.
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Global name: @k26dp
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That's not what I said. I said what you said is in Action #1 is a pretty weird interpretation of Superman's action
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Originally Posted by RosaQuartz
Wow, wouldn't have expected you of all people to be such a defender of the status quo. As I stated, Superman from AC#1 was an agent of social justice, and not necessarily of agent of the law. That's clearly the same direction NuAC#1 is going in as well.
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Yup. That's the one. Saw it on Comedy Central a couple of times today. At least it's being advertised on a "right" channel. Meaning that it's not being shunted off to Lifetime27.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
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I'm expecting maybe an $12 comic day today. Normally I'm in the $25-35 range.
Not touching the DCU relaunch at all. After what are essentially 7 event/reboots in the last 6 years, I'm burnt out. I don't give a **** about their lines anymore. Several of them, most distressingly the Superman ones, have gone NOPLACE in the last year and a half (if not longer). And the ones that WERE progressing have been cancelled.
They've provided me with the clean break I need to ditch a monthly comics bill.
I'm sick of "mega events".
I'm sick of reboots.
I just want a comics line that's going to tell me a damned decent story and flip the bird to the larger continuity. But that's not happening now. The whole "universe" continuity thing is the way these hacks want to narrate now.
So fine. They can do it without a cash infusion from me.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Animal Man was a pleasant surprise. I didn't like the art at first. It just didn't seem to mesh with the story but as we got closer to the end of the book it just started to fit.
Action was everything I could have hoped for
Stormwatch was interesting and I'm curious to see how it goes. Ditto for Men of War but for different reasons. I want Men of War to succeed just to help American Comics move away from the Superhero stuff. If a War comic can succeed then it give the industry an excuse to start expanding into other genres of storytelling
The rest of the stuff I got today was OK but none of it really stood out to me
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."