Some other quotes I saw from another site:
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| Lame. Superman's costume is classic and should not be touched. |
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| Well, I started with Spider-man at around 250 and it amazed me (amazed, see what I did there?) to know the character had a history, I wanted to read all those old books! A kid today will pick up Action Comics 901 if the story is good! Or maybe he won´t because KIDS DON´T READ COMICS ANYMORE! It´s all us old farts buying them, so what gives? Meh, **** this. |
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Marvel already did this. And we know how that ended up - everything went back to the original numbering. Comic book continuity is so convoluted & confused that it's pointless to try and make sense of any of it. The days of self-contained titles with a cast of characters that stayed relatively consistent for any length of time are long gone. I don't see any way for a kid to jump into a title like, oh say, Justice League, and know what the hell is going on and who all these 4th-string benchwarmers are (so & so is the cousin twice removed from alternate dimention Earth 451 etc. etc. etc.) And I'm not even mentioning the X-Men books - is there anybody that is capable of keeping up with that perpetual mess? But as someone already pointed out above, kids don't read comics anymore. Is there anybody in the industry still pretending that they do? I haven't seen a kid in my local comic shop in over 15 years. All those industry hopes that the movies would inspire a new generation of young comic buyers went swirling down the toilet. |
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Most of the Golden Age books were dead and gone; comics really dropped off in the 50's. The reboot was a way to re-launch the titles; that's all. Here you have titles that are still ongoing. Also, the 60's reboot didn't involve a million tie-ins. I HATE ******* tie-ins. The comic shop I frequented back in the 80's had custom-built racks designed to hold 6 rows of comics. Why? Because the owner kept six months worth of each book out on the rack at cover price. Why? So if someone wanted to try a new comic, they could easily grab six issues and get into the story. Can't ******* do that now, because the stories all jump from book to book. How, exactly, is someone supposed to get into a new book now? Or if there's a particular storyline...when someone would ask what to get if they wanted to read Batman: Year One, I could tell them. Four issues of Batman, consecutive. Done. No other books to buy. But try and read, say, Blackest Night. I need ******* Wikipedia to tell me what books I need, and I can't tell if I need all the crossovers -- are some just brief mentions, or do they all affect the plot in a significant way? It's a ******* way to do things. |
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Comics. The heroic stories of sequential art that kids read on the bus while on the way to school. Those are going away. In fact they've been pretty much gone since the 90's as Marvel and DC went "all in" on the direct market, abandoned any attempt to get new readership (e.g. kids) and slowly turned their business model from "stories about heroes for kids" to "stories about super-powered characters for adults." |
I noticed it a lot in the late 90s, but some of the stories became along the lines of something you'd see in NYPD Blue, Homicide: Life on the Street, or any other cop drama.....heck, some superhero stories made me go "why isn't this in Batman instead?"
I like those stories, but the inner child in me says "I don't want to see my superheroes involved in that"
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
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I counted it up one time for the Flashpoint books for July and August (there was a listing in some other DC comics). There was something like 32 or more comics for those two months. Something like 16 or so different titles that the damn story was jumping around in. How is anyone supposed to keep up with that?
| Or if there's a particular storyline...when someone would ask what to get if they wanted to read Batman: Year One, I could tell them. Four issues of Batman, consecutive. Done. No other books to buy. But try and read, say, Blackest Night. I need ******* Wikipedia to tell me what books I need, and I can't tell if I need all the crossovers -- are some just brief mentions, or do they all affect the plot in a significant way? |
Also for those that didn't get the side notes...
6 Years ago = Jokers Origins
5 Years ago = JL Origins
3 Years ago = Batman: The Killing Joke
6 Weeks ago = Brightest Day
These dates if certain things are as they've been mandated before hand places...
7.5 Years ago = Superman's debut
7 Years ago = Batman's debut, Green Lantern's Debut
5.5 Years ago = Robin/Dick Grayson's Origin
3.5 Years ago = Nightwing/Dick Grayson's Debut
3.5-3 Years ago = Robin/Jason Todd's Debut and time as Robin
2.5 Years ago = Tim Drake's Debut
3 Years ago = CoIE
2.5 years ago = Knight Saga and Death of Superman
2 years ago = NML & Zero Hour? And just after Cassandra cain run as Batgirl?
1 year ago = Infnite Crisis & Identity Crisis?
.5 years ago = Batman RIP & Final Crisis?
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To get every flashpoint issue it'd cost $212 and spans 53 issues... 5 told the story of "flashpoint" 1 page told the story of why the huge reboot... 6 issues told the story of why the flashpoint world sucked. Most of the rest ranged from utter crap (like Grodd of War) to great one shot mini-stories (like World of Flashpoint).
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Originally Posted by Dark One
I counted it up one time for the Flashpoint books for July and August (there was a listing in some other DC comics). There was something like 32 or more comics for those two months. Something like 16 or so different titles that the damn story was jumping around in. How is anyone supposed to keep up with that?
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... Well I just read that Jason Todd was never Robin in the DCnU which means one of the most essential moments in Bruce's life which has effected all the bat stories after CoIE no longer happened. Somehow what happened to Jason happened to him though which really doesn't work cuz if he wasn't Robin none of those past stories make any sense what so ever... and most of Batman lore as of current makes no sense either...
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Originally Posted by Nightphall
I agree with this last bit. Before the DCnU announcement, I used to go to my comic shop a LOT (they had D&D materials as well). I don't think I saw anyone in there under the age of 19, including times when kids were out of school. And this was before the economy went under. |
Kids can't afford comics anymore, and even those that can would rather spend their money on the newest video game. It's a sad fact of the market. DC isn't even the first publisher to feel it. Others have tried to make headway and failed only to get absorbed by one of the big two. DC is just the biggest publisher to essentially admit that they are losing ground and make an attempt to gain sales.
The only way DC, or any publisher is going to make any gains in sales to kids is to find a way to make the comics affordable to the market they claim to seek.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
... Well I just read that Jason Todd was never Robin in the DCnU which means one of the most essential moments in Bruce's life which has effected all the bat stories after CoIE no longer happened. Somehow what happened to Jason happened to him though which really doesn't work cuz if he wasn't Robin none of those past stories make any sense what so ever... and most of Batman lore as of current makes no sense either...
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Good thing they did the whole reboot to clear up all that muddled continuity nonsense...
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Ok Dur I think you are being slightly unfair here, They technically have only been back together as team since Brightest Day occurred (Hank was brought back from the dead remember?) There are still a few kinks to work out on the teamwork. Hank & Don were Hawk & Dove for about 2 years when Don died. Dawn appeared about 3-5 months after Don died. Then they were partners about 6 months when Hank died. Hank was gone about a year before being brought back in Brightest Day. ( Granted they still need a timeline to show the backstory so everyone's on the same page and how Hank died)|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Continuing the full 13 #1 reviews...
Hawk and Dove #1: Another below average book... The 2 have been working together for 3 or so years now and for some reason Hawk doesn't know there is a connection with Don and Dove nor are they cohessive unit even though they always been up to this point and assuming Brightest Day is cannon have been in any known cannon for this unverse... So all the issues they have make no sense... The first page was a cool play on the Hawk & Dove mythos though, tricking the reader into thinking one thing and then going a different direction. so below average writing and below average art... meh. |
Hank & Don were close but remember Dawn was overseas in London when she recieved the powers of Dove after Crisis. Do you remember every single one of your brother's or sister's ex-girlfriends / boyfriends?
Granted I'm not a fan of Liefeld's art either but I think story wise you're being totally unfair here.
*(On a side note while I don't agree with you're assessment of Batgirl either, I do agree you raise some valid points in your criticism of that)*
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The issue states they've been working together for a couple of years. I have no idea what the full back story of Hawk and Dove is, but the way it's written gives too many mixed signals.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
Ok Dur I think you are being slightly unfair here, They technically have only been back together as team since Brightest Day occurred (Hank was brought back from the dead remember?) There are still a few kinks to work out on the teamwork. Hank & Don were Hawk & Dove for about 2 years when Don died. Dawn appeared about 3-5 months after Don died. Then they were partners about 6 months when Hank died. Hank was gone about a year before being brought back in Brightest Day. ( Granted they still need a timeline to show the backstory so everyone's on the same page and how Hank died)
Hank & Don were close but remember Dawn was overseas in London when she recieved the powers of Dove after Crisis. Do you remember every single one of your brother's or sister's ex-girlfriends / boyfriends? Granted I'm not a fan of Liefeld's art either but I think story wise you're being totally unfair here. *(On a side note while I don't agree with you're assessment of Batgirl either, I do agree you raise some valid points in your criticism of that)* |
On the first 4 reviews, including Batgirl, I had a power outage and lost them and I was being nicer in the rewrite
Here's a longer review which I wrote earlier today on comicvine...
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This is perhaps the worst of the new 52 that came this week. Not because it was bad writing or bad art per se, but because there are so many things wrong with it that it really does show that no matter how good the character, art, or writer that sometimes it is just garbage. I want to be clear that it isn't that the writing is bad in and of itself, but rather that it is because what the writer does to the character. Batgirl, and specifically Barbara Gordon, has been a symbol of women liberation and handicap empowerment. Before she was shot she was a strong forceful confident brave girl that got he leg up on the super elite Batman and after she was shot she was broken for a short while but quickly pulled herself together and reforged herself stronger than ever before, becoming one of the top people in the super hero world as well as making quite a buck for herself. And even while in her wheelchair and in front of a computer all the time she never lost a step whenever she regained her physical ability to walk whether it be from power or in the virtual world. This book takes a beat from Batgirl Special #1 and makes the Brave, Bold, Confident woman into a pathetic weakling that is scared to face a gun pointed at her by even the most inept of of gunmen. She no longer has made a name for herself apparently and lives in a small apartment. And if you want to talk about powering down Superman and how that may or may not work you should really be seeing that this character that is in Batgirl #1 that they are claiming is Barbara Gordon is anything has been depowered in just about every possible way from physical, to mental, to economical. In the end this is not a book I recommend because it is not only just a "few things different" it is indeed a ripping out of the soul of a symbol and replacing it with a Skrull doppelganger. |
I miss the original Vodoo. Right now this doesn't seem like the Vodoo I remember. 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by Dark One
I counted it up one time for the Flashpoint books for July and August (there was a listing in some other DC comics). There was something like 32 or more comics for those two months. Something like 16 or so different titles that the damn story was jumping around in. How is anyone supposed to keep up with that?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
To get every flashpoint issue it'd cost $212 and spans 53 issues... 5 told the story of "flashpoint" 1 page told the story of why the huge reboot... 6 issues told the story of why the flashpoint world sucked. Most of the rest ranged from utter crap (like Grodd of War) to great one shot mini-stories (like World of Flashpoint).
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Actually guys, with the three Booster Gold issues Flashpoint spans 60 comics. 16 three issue mini-series, three one-shots, the three Booster Gold issues, and the five Flashpoint issues. All issues but the actual Flashpoint were $3, Flashpoint was $4 each (they had more pages). That's a total $182 (before tax. $196 at my tax rate) for the whole shebang. Sadly, most of the 16 mini-series really didn't deal with the whole Flashpoint thing.
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Like I said, I was just counting July and August in that. I didn't even really bother keeping track of, well, anything dealing with Flashpoint.
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Originally Posted by Samothrake
Actually guys, with the three Booster Gold issues Flashpoint spans 60 comics. 16 three issue mini-series, three one-shots, the three Booster Gold issues, and the five Flashpoint issues. All issues but the actual Flashpoint were $3, Flashpoint was $4 each (they had more pages). That's a total $182 (before tax. $196 at my tax rate) for the whole shebang. Sadly, most of the 16 mini-series really didn't deal with the whole Flashpoint thing.
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Hmmm....lemme grab my Flashpoint thoughts from another forum...
Ah....Here they are:
Overall it was a big Elseworlds tale. Not necessarily bad, but not really good either. Just kinda Blah, though some of the stories were better than others.
The Lois Lane series made it look like Lois was killed by the Amazons while she was broadcasting. Yet we see in Project Superman that she somehow survived that and dies because Supes made whomever that was he was fighting go BOOM.
Project Superman was an interesting story. Sad story when it dealt with Kal, but interesting nonetheless. Do we have some sort of normal DC analogue for Subject 0?
Secret Seven was an interesting tale of the groups betrayal by Enchantress and Shades madness, but overall didnt really tie into the whole overall story at all. Just when it started to get good - where he started to come back from the madness realm it stopped.
Outsider seems to be an entirely new character (to me at least). He had a bit of an interesting story, but reminded me of Luthor made of stone and much more proactive and hands-on.
World of Flashpoint was kinda eh-inspiring. A semi-interesting take on a character I know next to nothing about.
Legion of Doom really had nothing to do with the overall Flashpoint story. The story of Heatwaves revenge was just kind of there. Plastic Man was more interesting. However it was interesting to see how they incarcerated their super-villains and how they treated anyone who with powers who. Especially those who broke the law. What made me scratch my head was that they kept the villains costumes and weapons on Queens Row? Talk about stupid. Yes, those things are property of the villains, but no law enforcement in their right mind would keep all that crap where the prisoners could get at it. Especially since we see in Green Arrow Industries that GAI is getting these things to reverse engineer. Why would Queen give that stuff back?! Those things had no business being in the same facility as the villains, other than story deus ex.
Green Arrow Industries Tony Stark (with more years of playboy experience) in DC under the name Oliver Queen.
Grod of War an interesting Alexander the Great parallel. I liked the end: I want you to remember this. I want you to grow up and hate me. I want you to spend every minute of your life planning and thinking about how youre going to kill me. And when youre finally ready, I want you to find me, and I want you to get the job done. Now get out of here. And HURRY UP! Just for some challenge. Good stuff.
Emperor Aquaman and Wonder Woman tell the same tale from two different sides. Aquaman made it seem like Mera jumped out of the water and got beheaded within 2 seconds. Wonder Woman showed a more successful attack by Mera, but she was still defeated quickly once Diana got around to fighting. Its interesting that the whole messed up world with the war was because of two peoples jealousy and unwillingness to change. Orm did what he did because he wanted the Atlantean Throne, and Dianas aunt did what she did because she was afraid of peace. Yet they were somehow attracted to each other. Makes you wonder what their plans were going to be if they were successful in becoming the rulers of their respective countries. Dis they even have plans beyond And I shall be the ruler!?
Frankenstein and the Creatures of the Unknown could have happened in regular DC. I enjoyed the tale. They only got involved with the overall story at the end. And it would appear that the back story is going to be ported over to New 52, what with the new Frankenstein and the Creature Commandos series.
Abin Sur was another rather yawn inducing series. Ooooh Blackest Night without any Earth GL
..oooooh! Lets throw in a flashpoint prophecy to make conflict between Sinestro and Abin. Overall, I thought the whole three-shot one of the weakest.
I enjoyed Deathstroke as it showed that he is more than just a cold-hearted, ruthless mercenary. And it was really the only story with a semi-happy ending. I also enjoyed seeing the Warlord running about the normal world. I thought he made a good enemy counterpart for Slade.
Citizen Cold was another story that really didnt tie into the overall Flashpoint story. It really was a what if? story. What if the Flash wasnt the hero of Central City? Not sure how I feel about it overall.
Batmans story was intriguing, as it was a story of Thomas seeking his wife to ask her permission to change the world. It was interesting to see Penguin and others working for Wayne. No Two Face because Batman is more brutal and the crooks dont get to get out of jail as often. Was also interesting to see who knew Thomas was Batman and actively helped him in his crusade.
Kid Flash was mostly set a five hundred years after Flashpoint. Without Superman and the heroes, Braniac was able to squash any resistance to his mission of gaining knowledge. The events of this book tie in with some of the reasons for Flashpoint, but all.
Now on to the Main Story. Flashpoints five issues really was Flash wakes up in a different world and he and Batman change it back. The things that were happening in the overall world were only showed a few times within Flashpoint, and I suppose thats why they had sixteen miniseries and three one-shots to tell the bigger story, but overall, the gist was really shown in Flashpoints five issues. With the three Booster Gold issues, there was literally 60 comics for this event.
However, there were way too many things that got changed for it all to be Barrys fault. Yes by him internalizing the Speed Force he changed some things, and by Bart gathering the Speed Force it changed a few things. Taking it from Max Mercury shouldnt have changed too much. But closer to a more modern 20th century history, by taking the speed from Jay, well thats where the changes started to add up. By not having a Flash for a Justice Society to fight in World War 2, the JSA fell apart. No JSA in WW2 means no public good faith in people with powers. Which leads to the fear and mistrust of the government and public of the super-powered when they show up again decades later. However this doesnt cover all the other changes to the timeline. Not by a long shot does this cover all of the changes to the timeline, butterfly effect or not.
Why was Bruce shot instead of his parents? Definitely a tampered event. Flash could not have caused this.
Why did Kal-Els ship land in Metropolis instead of Smallville? Was the earth turning a bit slower or faster (dependent on the direction the ship was coming from)? Did the ship leave Krypton sooner or later than in normal DCU. Was the ship traveling a tiny fraction faster or slower than normal DCU? There are several possible reasons as to why, but in so many timelines and parallel Earths he lands in Kansas and the Kents care, this seems like one of the more tampered events.
Apparently Captain Nathanial Adam was not framed for a crime he didnt commit and sentenced to death. Which means he covered in alien metal and sitting on an atomic bomb as it was exploded. Which means he lived out his military career and wasnt propelled forward in time. Then again, we dont know if the US even did that experiment. Did that alien ship with that metal even crash on earth? This looks like another case of a tampered event. Somehow Adam wasnt framed, which led him to live out his military career.
Apparently Deathstroke DID fight in Vietnam and get his super-soldier serum treatment. This is shown nicely in the book with his healing factor. (incidentally, when did all comics start using healing factor for characters with some type of regeneration? I originally saw it used with Wolverine, but see it with so many characters nowadays that Im surprised Marvel isnt suing, as they used it first.) This is a case of a character living out his life in the new timeline, rather than any events being tampered with in his personal timeline. By the time the story starts, so much is different, that we just see how things might have been.
Now that I think about it, it seems that there were only a few direct tamperings with the timeline. Like I said, with the entire Speed Force with Barry, we get no WW2 hero team. But we have Bruce being killed, Kal-El not ending up with the Kents, Wonder Woman meeting up with a baby kraken and Aquaman, instead of Steve Trevor, and Nathanial Adam not becoming Captain Atom (though this last one doesnt have quite the same effect as the others). Everything else seems to be the consequences of these events. As we see, most heroes and villains still ended up with their costumed identities. Their motivations may be different, but it they still use the same weapons and costumes. Its as if by taking what Barry did and preventing the Big Three from becoming what they were in normal DCU, the whole planet went to pot. Didnt we see the whole what if the Big Three werent in already in Trinity?
But its really this picture:
that makes me wonder if DC isnt giving themselves an out if this new DCU doesnt work out the way they want it to. It also has an ominous overtone of Hey, we know we told you there wasnt any big crossovers planned, but heres what we have for the next one! Because the history of heroes was shattered into three long ago. Splintered to weaken your world for their impending arrival. And the picture really makes it seem like what we are seeing now with DNnU is just another what if universe, albeit a much more fully-committed one.
So, overall Flashpoint was an interesting exercise in Elseworlds storytelling, but I think they could have found a better way to make the changes they wanted to.
I've been a DC fanboy for 15 straight years, and I was very apprehensive (read: nerd raging) about the reboot. But I read this week's comics and I wasn't upset by them. Not all of them were great, and some of them had problems. But most of them, I liked the new directions in. Particuarly, Action Comics, Batgirl, and JLI.
Action Comics is a refreshing take on Superman. For years, there's been the feeling of "so what?" with Superman, because he's Superman. He's unbeatable. No matter what. But this is a Superman who is more fallible, less experienced, and weaker. I'm reading Superman for the first time in years.
Batgirl.... had a lot of handwaving. "For three years I couldn't feel my legs..... now I'm Batgirl!" and that kind of disappointed me. I don't get why people are raging about her freezing up, though. It's her first time out as Batgirl again after regaining her legs and she's still dealing with the trauma of what Joker did to her. That's a very human reaction. Yes, Oracle was an icon and I *loved* Barbara as Oracle. Yes, they took away some of that status, but they made her very human. If there's one writer I'd trust my favorite characters with, with no hesitation, it's Gail Simone.
JLI was good. I liked the team interactions. Booster seems to be in a mid-point between "80s Booster" and "modern Booster", and I'm okay with that. Not a terrible amount to say about this one.
One of the biggest things that swayed me around to this was my comic shop. I went in and most of the books were sold out, in a store that normally doesn't get a ton of traffic. There were people I'd never seen before in the store, talking about the new comics. That's exciting to me. I'm still very concerned about some titles, such as Teen Titans, which appear to be steaming piles of bullcrap. But, really, I can choose not to buy Teen Titans and enjoy the books I want to and so far it's going pretty okay. Given my way, would I have allowed the reboot? Not at all. But I love these comics and this is where they are, so I'm going to enjoy it.
While I understand Barbara's hesitation and freezing up, did they really have to have drawn for three pages?
I blame this reboot of their entire universe on the lawsuit with the Superman creator families. They have to change Supes 20% to keep him. They get to keep the "modern" version who can fly vs leap tall buildings etc. So, if they have to reboot the main man of their line, why not just reboot the whole thing and make it all a cohesive new... gods, I hate the new universe.
Like it or hate it, the new DCU is selling like hotcakes. JL #1 is sold out even at my local Hastings store, and the clerk said DC is working on the third printing of it to meet demand.
*Shrug* Issue #1 fervor.
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Exactly.|
Originally Posted by Tempus Fugitive
*Shrug* Issue #1 fervor.
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See what the sales are like in six months. It's just like with MMOs. You get that initial surge, but then it drops off after a bit.
But that just means that next year there'll be a new #1 for each of the comics as the initial artists/writers move on to other projects.
My prediction is a year from now they will realize it didn't work and they'll revert back.
I say 2 with more new number #1! *sigh*
half the reason the superhero comics keep going is the collectors market.
"And for us this is the end of all stories, and we can mostly say they lived happily ever after. But for them it was the beginning of the real story. All there life in this world and all there adventures in Narnia had only be the cover and the title page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of The Great Story which no one on earth has ever read: which goes on forever: in which every chapter is better than the one before" - C.S Lewis, The Last Battle.
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This is what I always say when companies make some big change to combat the "problem" of their continuity.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Exactly.
See what the sales are like in six months. |
Yeah, the Ultimate universe was cool too, until it turned to ****.
Of course the DC reboot isn't even trying to fix continuity, even though that was sorta part of the pitch. It's really no different than Superboy punching the walls of reality.
"Okay, we're using this plot to fix/change some things in our universe's history. You won't know what was changed or how for awhile, but we'll get to it eventually."
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Next reboot they'll do it right.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
This is what I always say when companies make some big change to combat the "problem" of their continuity.
Yeah, the Ultimate universe was cool too, until it turned to ****. Of course the DC reboot isn't even trying to fix continuity, even though that was sorta part of the pitch. It's really no different than Superboy punching the walls of reality. "Okay, we're using this plot to fix/change some things in our universe's history. You won't know what was changed or how for awhile, but we'll get to it eventually." |
"Okay we're just rebooting it all!"
Not to happy about Red Hood not being a Robin. And some of these changes makes me feel like they just didn't plan it. They picked somethings and ran with it.
Writer/Artist Team speaks up "We want to do stories for Batgirl! Only we want it be Babs, because she was always out favorite."
"We want to write about Superman! But before he was married."
Now, what I do like is seeing Wildstorm put in with DC. I want to see Grifter. But then, I also want to see Gen13 and DV8. And making them part of DC makes this more likely to happen.
Really though, I think they could have done this whole reboot better and still made these changes while keeping things at a simple start.
Sadly though, you'll hear the same thing again in a few years. We're rebooting so new fans can jump in right from the beginning.
I jumped right into X-Men, and then bought a few back issues. And this was back when 14k Buad Modems were fast!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Next reboot they'll do it right.
I jumped right into X-Men, and then bought a few back issues. And this was back when 14k Buad Modems were fast! |
This is how I am with comics. I almost prefer picking up a comic that has history. Then I know that I don't have to wait a month to get my fix because I can just go buy back issues.
Also: I hear that the reboot was an attempt to "appeal to younger readers who would be thrown off by seeing Batman #893"
Why is this just now a concern, as opposed to all of us who used to be a younger audience? For example, when I started reading comics, it was around Knightfall and The Death Of Superman. Well past 400 issues for both Superman and Batman. Not once did I feel left out because there were so many other back issues. Especially with the advent of the internet, which made what little problem I had with it go away.
Ugh. I'll go back to reading DC when they go back to the old universe.