City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

All Trainers will be Tailors

Acroyear2

By Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2011-08-19 02:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
And why would trainers bother with costumes? Might as well let us access the Auction House through them too.
Ooh, and the transit system. And enhancement shops. And the invention interface. And contacts! And mission doors! Why, we could finish the tutorial, cozy up to Ms. Liberty (obviously her click range will need to be expanded somewhat), and never have to move again except inside mission instances! The dream will finally come true.

 

Posted

Immersion cannot really be used against this change, as it is something that the current Icon Stores already break.
My character doesn't need a tailor in order to change into the t-shirt he wants to wear.
Someone else's super-genius-in-a-power-suit character doesn't need a tailor to perform super-genius upgrades onto his suit...
And so on and so forth...

However, I can understand some of the concerns.
I like the change, but I do wonder if there may be some negative aspects that come with it.

One is over-crowding Ms. Liberty.
Not sure this would really happen nor if it is a bad thing.
It has me a little concerned and I wonder if only trainers in zones without an Icon should get the treatment (since Atlas now has an Icon, this would solve Ms. Liberty being overly swarmed).

The other is more difficult to really figure out...

While I do not believe that this is the end of Icons and Facemakers for the following reasons:

  • They're needed for the missions to unlock the capes
  • They're needed for the Day Job Badges and the discount coupons
  • Some people will always prefer them (some of us are weird like that!)
However, mmorpgs are (were?) built to be community building virtual interactive thingamabobs that Raph Koster could describe far better...
That trend, however, seems to be a relic of the past. Which is a shame, if you ask me.
While I do not believe this change is a major hindrance to this ideal, I can see the appeal of Icon diminishing. Unfortunately, the trend has long been that things that do not give xp or loot or some virtual reward should not come at the expense of forcing others to have to take part.

I always liked the model of mmorpgs that required travel, time, shared locations for non-powering activities... That's quickly going the way of the do-do, I'm afraid.

Anyway, I do not see this particular change as either the deathblow to that game model, nor as a major culprit... Honestly, that horse is pretty much dead already. I just see this change as fitting in-line with what things are like here.
We have Tailors that we can go to and still need to go to if we want certain things (missions, badges, bonuses, in-game tailor pretendy fun)... But we also have convenient access to the costume editor... now at outside locations (yay, for proper lighting!).
To be honest, being able to quick change something without having to zone around and all may actually improve my immersion a great deal! ("Hey, it's sunny out, let me put on shades!" <add in many more on-the-spot changes you can think up!>)

I'm quite certain I've rambled on for far too long to be read by most, but I hope it might offer something interesting for those that did!

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
One is over-crowding Ms. Liberty.
Not sure this would really happen nor if it is a bad thing.
Yeah, I've seen it. It does and it is. Reeeeeally annoying.

 

Posted

For those who feel like this impedes exploration and worry about overcrowding at trainers, why not just make the trek to a less crowded trainer in another zone?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Yeah, I've seen it. It does and it is. Reeeeeally annoying.
Are you talking about in Beta?
Because that is not the same thing.
We have a lot of auto leveled characters leveling up there, not to mention most of us congregating there intentionally and/or because they are new characters.

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
I think I should just let my own opinion be known here: some while back, I came to a simple conclusion that when designing a videogame Fun >>> Realistic/immersion.
Immersion, especially in a superhero game, is not synonymous with realism.

In a video game, the quality of immersion stems from anything that draws players into the virtual world and makes them forget they're playing a game. In this game, it's more immersive for players to go through the journey of visiting a tailor, whether in a dedicated store or an NPC, to make a cosmetic change. Repeatedly going to the same NPC for multiple functions, while more convenient, requires less engagement with the environment - the NPC is less a character than a menu portal to a customization screen.

This isn't a make-or-break issue, just one of several that this change inadvertently raises (e.g. power spamming/lagging, local overcrowding, population distribution, zone design).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Ninja View Post
For those who feel like this impedes exploration and worry about overcrowding at trainers, why not just make the trek to a less crowded trainer in another zone?
So people should inconvenience themselves to avoid the inconvenience that is caused by others?


Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Are you talking about in Beta?
Because that is not the same thing.
I think it's perfectly indicative of what'll happen at busy times. (I'm not talking about right now. This was a week or so back, during the first round of VIP testing, when things were proceeding as normally as they ever do in beta.) On the busier servers it's bound to cause occasional havoc, and while occasional havoc is not continual havoc, I maintain that it's still unacceptable, particularly because it's so damn avoidable.

Look, these are characters people need access to. Anything that encourages people to loiter in their vicinity when they don't need to is a bad idea. They have one job: to let us get our new levels. Giving them other things to do, particularly things that inherently involve hanging around, is like modifying the machines in subway stations that sell tickets so that they're also Internet access points. It messes with the traffic flow in irritating - more so because utterly unnecessary - ways.

If they could put one of those weirdly-out-of-place Architect buildings in every damn zone, they can expand the tailoring chains as well - and have, in fact. Which makes this thing with the trainers doubly pointless, unless we're going to start being able to pick out our new powers and slot positions at Icon too. Hey, fair's fair, even when it's dumb.

 

Posted

How cute, a bunch of roleplayers (well not really a bunch, just the same ones posting multiple times) making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Ninja
For those who feel like this impedes exploration and worry about overcrowding at trainers, why not just make the trek to a less crowded trainer in another zone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown_User View Post
So people should inconvenience themselves to avoid the inconvenience that is caused by others?
Especially when there are simple solutions available, e.g. place accessible tailor NPCs in zones instead?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
How cute, a bunch of roleplayers (well not really a bunch, just the same ones posting multiple times) making a mountain out of a mole hill.
How cute, someone who can't understand that others have different priorities than they do and decides to make an assumption.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
I think it's perfectly indicative of what'll happen at busy times. (I'm not talking about right now. This was a week or so back, during the first round of VIP testing, when things were proceeding as normally as they ever do in beta.) On the busier servers it's bound to cause occasional havoc, and while occasional havoc is not continual havoc, I maintain that it's still unacceptable, particularly because it's so damn avoidable.

Look, these are characters people need access to. Anything that encourages people to loiter in their vicinity when they don't need to is a bad idea. They have one job: to let us get our new levels. Giving them other things to do, particularly things that inherently involve hanging around, is like modifying the machines in subway stations that sell tickets so that they're also Internet access points. It messes with the traffic flow in irritating - more so because utterly unnecessary - ways.

If they could put one of those weirdly-out-of-place Architect buildings in every damn zone, they can expand the tailoring chains as well - and have, in fact. Which makes this thing with the trainers doubly pointless, unless we're going to start being able to pick out our new powers and slot positions at Icon too. Hey, fair's fair, even when it's dumb.
Like I said, I think Ms. Liberty is indeed potentially problematic, but Beta is not really a good indicator of it due to the obvious differences.
And yeah, Atlas and Ms. Liberty are plenty bombarded on Virtue and Freedom as it is. I'm note sure that there's a major problem to do with it.
Frankly... the new players may actually like it.

Still, the trainers have always served other functions: browsing through and choosing titles, reading up all the information they have on the different gameplay mechanics and such that they have to offer.

And surrounding them is not remotely the same as a subway ticket machine... Just simply for the fact that it is not a one-at-a-time line and we can fly, hover and so on (if need be).

Still... I am all for removing it from Ms. Liberty... I just don't think it is the horrible aspect that is horrible that you and others are suggesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
How cute, a bunch of roleplayers (well not really a bunch, just the same ones posting multiple times) making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Hey, guess what... role-player here. I don't mind the change at all for many reasons that I explained earlier!
This is not an issue of role-play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
We did. It's immersion-breaking. Can't say it simpler that. If you don't like it, fine, but that doesn't make it invalid.
Who's immersion? Mine or yours?
See my earlier post about how it doesn't break my immersion any more than the current Icon stores do.

Honestly... I've long wanted portable access to the costume editor... because I don't need to go to the tailor in order to pull my hair out of a pony tail or change my jackets, or shirts or grow a beard.
But hey... What do I know? I'm just a person who tries to have reasonable conversations with unwilling strangers!

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
I've long wanted portable access to the costume editor.
Remote access to the costume editor as some kind of earnable reward is one thing - it doesn't attempt to explain its own existence in-universe. It's like the remote Market (I refuse to call it an "auction house) Access power - it's there to break the game, and we all know it.

This is different. This is part of the contact's dialogue and it's attempting to explain this to me in-character and in-story. And it's failing. I ask you again - what, precisely, can Miss Liberty do that will change my gender from a woman to a man? Both the Facemaker and Icon boast cosmetic surgery, but Miss Liberty does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Miss Liberty can't change your gender.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Honestly... I've long wanted portable access to the costume editor... because I don't need to go to the tailor in order to pull my hair out of a pony tail or change my jackets, or shirts or grow a beard.
That's cool. A floaty thing like the invention table is fine by me. I just don't like trainers as tailors.

I mean, I *know* why they're doing it: to get impulse-buy money from F2P players. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

And if this change *does* keep people from training up, doesn't that run the risk of turning people off of the game? A non-player is a non-payer.

Quote:
But hey... What do I know? I'm just a person who tries to have reasonable conversations with unwilling strangers!
What's wrong with you? This is the internet!

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Worst case scenario is it makes getting to the trainers in places like Atlas and Talos nearly impossible. We'll see if that happens.
That won't be such a problem in I21 - they're reducing the cap for the max number of players in almost every zone in I21.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
They're also adding Icons to AP and Mercy. Which is a good thing.

Even if they'll be dead zones.

Eco.
Atlas won't be a dead zone. Lots od People will continue to run their Tips there. I know I will.

Enjoy your day please.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
And still another reason for pointless crowding around the trainers. When I first got to New AP over in Beta, I wasn't entirely sure Ms. Liberty was there at first. I thought maybe her absence was part of the (IMO rather bizarre) zone revamp/retheme. But no, it was just that she was utterly swamped, like Elvis at a middle school dance. By people who, as is usually the case, couldn't be bothered to shut off their auras and PBAoE powers while they futzed with their costumes.

No, sir, I do not like it.
ha, I saw the same thing in beta. And at least two people right next to Ms. Liberty who were AFK. I had to jostle around to get to a spot where I could click her to train to my brand new level 2. If that is how vets are, imagine what it'll be like when new players come on and truly don't know how annoying it is to be crowding around like that (especially if you're afk, spamming powers, just standing there reading some phone contact text; i.e. not really needing to be glued to Ms. Liberty), impeding other players from actually doing something at that trainer.

 

Posted

You could've just turned on sprint traveled 600 yards and trained up at BaBs.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
You could've just turned on sprint traveled 600 yards and trained up at BaBs.
True, but I didn't know he was in the AP police station upon first landing in AP from the tutorial. Once I found him, I realized this is an option. New players, however, will not know this (it's not in the tutorial nor in popups, you are directed to Ms. Liberty).

And BaBs as a seamstress? Surreal.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
You could've just turned on sprint traveled 600 yards and trained up at BaBs.
Conversely, they could turn on sprint, travel 600 yards, and mess with their costumes in Icon, like they're supposed to. I have to Seek Alternate Route because they're using the trainer for something other than training? IDFTS, sunshine.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
And where will people go to level up when they so they won't be bugged by people changing costumes/power customizations?

Here's hoping we can get within clicking distance of Miss Liberty when Atlas Park is the venue for a costume contest.
So your complaint is this change will make the area around Miss Liberty hellish when there's a costume contest?

It already is. Even if people aren't changing costumes or auras, they circle around and camp Liberty until the contests start and boombox or do whatever else people who have enough time to camp Atlas do.

This change is a tiny QoL addition that makes the game just a tad bit easier for everyone, especially new players. I'm sorry if it breaks anyone's "immersion," but that's a cop out argument to use. Why do my characters, who make their own costumes, have to go to some "store" and pay a tailor to wear them? How many times do the X-Men stop in between fights to visit the local H&M to re-buy their costumes?

If one little dialogue option on the trainer's tree that can easily be ignored is enough to break your precious immersion, perhaps said immersion was too weak to sustain life in the first place.

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