Why is Miss Thystle Superstrength/Invuln?
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-08-15 14:51 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Maybe she got the name because of her 'prickly' personality. She's kind of a *****.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Thistle is the plant. It could be that her name is honestly "Thystle." It's something a parent might do to a child.
She's Invulnerability because she has Super Strength. It's one of the devs' unspoken rules that you can't have Super Strength on an NPC without also having Invulnerability.
Maybe she just really likes plants, and chose a plant motif for her name / schemes. Not her fault if she happened to get superpowers that have nothing to do with plants.
Quote:
Sure she does. It's like Spider-Man. She has the proportionate strength of a plant. (Which are actually pretty badass if you wait around long enough. |
Originally Posted by Haetron
Random question, but was doing a hero side tip mission detailing how she's famous for her plant based schemes, and I was like.. "But she has no plant based powers.
 " |
)Alternately, it just says she does plant-based schemes. The Penguin often does bird-based schemes, but he doesn't have any bird-based powers. He doesn't have any powers at all, in fact. He's just an angry fat man in a suit - not that different from me at weddings, really.
Similar to the way my main has the name 'Wild Claw', but does not have the Claws powerset. To him, it's just a good-sounding name. It does not define his abilities.
Quote:
Actually.....other mediums do this as well. You can be super strong and punch a brick wall, but with no invulnerability.....you may break your hand in the process.
|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
She's Invulnerability because she has Super Strength. It's one of the devs' unspoken rules that you can't have Super Strength on an NPC without also having Invulnerability.
|
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
Quote:
You probably wouldn't even make it to the wall. Your muscles would just break your bones immediately.
|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
Actually.....other mediums do this as well. You can be super strong and punch a brick wall, but with no invulnerability.....you may break your hand in the process.
|
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Plants are strong and tough. Its that hardy plant cell wall action.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
I have a tree-based superheroine called Raintree who is an Earth/Rad Controller. She uses her own roots to heave soil and stones and entangle enemies, and she uses plant pheromones and allergens to weaken and debuff her enemies, and she heals and resurrects her friends with the life that runs through the forest itself.
She wouldn't dream of being a Plant Controller -- she's protecting plants, not exposing them to danger.
Maybe Miss Thystle protects plants by punching people.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Spider-Man has super strength without invulnerability. He's more durable than an average human, which is why he can punch hard stuff without taking too much damage (although he's been shown to break his hands after repeatedly pummeling a brick wall), but he's not invulnerable.
|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
Actually.....other mediums do this as well. You can be super strong and punch a brick wall, but with no invulnerability.....you may break your hand in the process.
|
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Spider-Man is super strong but he doesn't have super strength.
Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut, Superman. Those guys have super strength and Spider-Man is no where near as strong as those guys.
Quote:
This assertion hurt Hulk's brain.
|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
Spider-Man is super strong but he doesn't have super strength.
|
Quote:
This is actually the silliest thing I've read today. I don't even know how to respond to it.
|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
Spider-Man is super strong but he doesn't have super strength.
Hulk, Thor, Juggernaut, Superman. Those guys have super strength and Spider-Man is no where near as strong as those guys. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I assume what Warden means is that while Spider-man is stronger than a human, he doesn't reach that threshold where we typically envision a being who is described as having Super Strength (such as Superman).
So while he IS Very Strong, he's NOT "Super Strong."
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
Under the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG system, Spider-Man's Strength is Incredible, which, IIRC, signifies a lift (press) capacity in the 25-ton range. That's a hell of a lot stronger than any normal human being. Dude can throw a car. I dunno where your threshold is, but mine's somewhere below that. |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
So while he IS Very Strong, he's NOT "Super Strong."
|
Heck, if you wanna split that hair, nobody in City of Heroes is invulnerable, especially the characters with Invulnerability.
Captain America is peak human strength. He can lift the maximum limit for his size that a human can do and still be considered 'normal'. He's like an Olympic Class weight lifter.
Spider-Man is super humanly strong. He can tear a steel door off its hinges. He can throw a small car, with effort. But that doesn't qualify as even "low tier" super strength in the Marvel universe.
Luke Cage, he's low tier. New Avengers establishes he's stronger than Spidey. Iron Man's basic armor is probably around this level.
Ben Grimm, Colossus, they're stronger. They're around mid level.
Thor and Hulk are around the top level, typically.
Beyond them, you get guys in the cosmic class of power where it's really not about muscle strength anymore. Guys like Gladiator, Thanos and such.
Where does our game lay?
In my opinion, the damage indicates around Spider-Man's level of strength for Tankers, and getting close to mid level for Brutes.
Some of SS's attacks TRY for a mid-high tier feel like Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, but the damage just isn't there to support it. Look at how much effort it takes just to destroy a car. Or when you can't even knock over a Malta boss, who's just a normal guy in a blue cowboy hat. Or how much damage you deal compared to a teammate brandishing a wooden baseball bat. And when's the last time you knocked someone through a wall? Or picked up a truck?
.
Quote:
it happens when I stack rage twice with against all odds capped.
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Some of SS's attacks TRY for a mid-high tier feel like Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, but the damage just isn't there to support it. Look at how much effort it takes just to destroy a car. Or when you can't even knock over a Malta boss, who's just a normal guy in a blue cowboy hat. Or how much damage you deal compared to a teammate brandishing a wooden baseball bat. And when's the last time you knocked someone through a wall? Or picked up a truck?
|
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
Quote:
Spider-Man's strength level is canonically in the 10-ton range.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Under the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG system, Spider-Man's Strength is Incredible, which, IIRC, signifies a lift (press) capacity in the 25-ton range. That's a hell of a lot stronger than any normal human being. Dude can throw a car. I dunno where your threshold is, but mine's somewhere below that.
Heck, if you wanna split that hair, nobody in City of Heroes is invulnerable, especially the characters with Invulnerability. |
Marvel's own character wiki, by the way, describes him as possessing "superhuman strength".
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
I never said anything about my opinion/stance on the matter, nor frankly do I know (or care) enough about Spider-man to say one way or another what the limits of his abilities are.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Under the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG system, Spider-Man's Strength is Incredible, which, IIRC, signifies a lift (press) capacity in the 25-ton range. That's a hell of a lot stronger than any normal human being. Dude can throw a car. I dunno where your threshold is, but mine's somewhere below that.
Heck, if you wanna split that hair, nobody in City of Heroes is invulnerable, especially the characters with Invulnerability. |
I was merely attempting to elaborate on warden_de_dios' post on why Spider-man could be considered not to have Super Strength, which seemed to be followed by a bit of confusion from other posters.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
In the MSHRPG the player range for Strength was up to "Monstrous" Spider-man had "Incredible" strength, Luke Cage was "Amazing" Iron-man, The Thing, and Colossus were all at "Monstrous"|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Captain America is peak human strength. He can lift the maximum limit for his size that a human can do and still be considered 'normal'. He's like an Olympic Class weight lifter.
Spider-Man is super humanly strong. He can tear a steel door off its hinges. He can throw a small car, with effort. But that doesn't qualify as even "low tier" super strength in the Marvel universe. Luke Cage, he's low tier. New Avengers establishes he's stronger than Spidey. Iron Man's basic armor is probably around this level. Ben Grimm, Colossus, they're stronger. They're around mid level. Thor and Hulk are around the top level, typically. Beyond them, you get guys in the cosmic class of power where it's really not about muscle strength anymore. Guys like Gladiator, Thanos and such. Where does our game lay? In my opinion, the damage indicates around Spider-Man's level of strength for Tankers, and getting close to mid level for Brutes. Some of SS's attacks TRY for a mid-high tier feel like Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, but the damage just isn't there to support it. Look at how much effort it takes just to destroy a car. Or when you can't even knock over a Malta boss, who's just a normal guy in a blue cowboy hat. Or how much damage you deal compared to a teammate brandishing a wooden baseball bat. And when's the last time you knocked someone through a wall? Or picked up a truck? . |
Cap had "Remarkable" strength.
Though Colossus seems to have been buffed at some point as he's now showing "Unearthly" strength parallel to Thor.
Hulk started at "Monstrous" and shifted up as he got angry, to a max of "Shift-Z" (ouch)
I used to love the MSHRPG stat ranks:
Feeble, Poor, Typical, Good, Excellent, Remarkable, Incredible, Amazing, Monstrous, Unearthly, Shift X, Shift Y, Shift Z, Class 1000, Class 3000, Class 5000, Beyond.
Yes there was a column on the chart for "Beyond"
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Some of SS's attacks TRY for a mid-high tier feel like Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, but the damage just isn't there to support it. Look at how much effort it takes just to destroy a car. Or when you can't even knock over a Malta boss, who's just a normal guy in a blue cowboy hat. Or how much damage you deal compared to a teammate brandishing a wooden baseball bat. And when's the last time you knocked someone through a wall? Or picked up a truck?
|
It's that way because CoX uses a "bleed out" combat system. By that I mean most attacks connect and whoever runs out of HP first loses. Attacks do way less damage than they "really" would so you have to assume most of them aren't connecting in full.
An alternative would be a system that is basically miss-miss-miss-miss-miss-miss-knock out.
Or a hybrid system like a few games use, where attacks shift your "position" relative to your opponent, ultimately resulting in 1 or 2 killing blows but most of the fight taking place without significant HP loss.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Sure she does. It's like Spider-Man. She has the proportionate strength of a plant. (Which are actually pretty badass if you wait around long enough.
) |
This literally made me laugh out loud.
Then it made me remember the damn weeds tearing up my sidewalk and I shook my fist in anger (but not literally).
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Quote:
You can't "stack rage twice"|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
it happens when I stack rage twice with against all odds capped.
|
Two applications of Rage is 'stacked Rage'
'Stacked twice' would be three applications of the power.
While that can happen, the third application has no effect.
.
Random question, but was doing a hero side tip mission detailing how she's famous for her plant based schemes, and I was like.. "But she has no plant based powers.
"
Was wondering if anyone else was confused by this.
(Personally, I'd make her a Thorns Assault/Earth Armor (NO GRANITE) NPC. Cause NPCs get to break rules, yo.)