I'm sorry, but I say no.


Ad Astra

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Yes it does. The Paragon Market has an entire section called content and in it they sell expansions and zone packs. Admittedly at this time there are only two items for sale but so what, Freedom hasn't launched yet and more can be added.
I assume that the way First Ward is accessed is going to be the regular way they put out new zones, so the content section will fill up over time.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
The competion gives subscribers all new 'powersets' for free.

Every hybrid MMO I've played gives subscribers classes for free.
1) CoH will be giving away new powersets to subscribers for free as well.

2) Other hybrids have classes locked behind fees, like EQ2 and AoC.

Technically, LOTRO has 2 classes that require the purchase of MoM, just like CoH required you to purchase GR to get Pistols, Demons, Kinetic Melee and Elec Control. If you recall, you also needed to purchase CoV separately to gain access to 5 archetypes and all of their combinations.

Are you just upset that you don't get all of the shiny on day one?


-= idspispopd =-

[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone_Jack View Post
1) CoH will be giving away new powersets to subscribers for free as well.
Some new power sets - not all


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

For subscribers who get free points every month, they'll be able to get them all for free.


-= idspispopd =-

[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
All Paragon needed to do was have their cash shop offer 'extras' for their subscribers, the QOL upgrades, the EXP boosters, just like the proven model of Hybrid MMO's. But apparantly pointing out that you dislike them double charging a subscriber, either in actual cash or in months paid (after all the points you save to buy a powerset, can't then be spent on the QOL upgrades), makes you open for attacks .
Here we go again. Why are you arguing that being given the choice of what to get free and what to pay for is somehow worse that having to wait for new full issues, or paying for expansions, or paying for booster packs?

Paragon is offering those extras free to subscribers. All those QoL extras are part and parcel of the Paragon Rewards system if you don't want to buy them at the store.

They're not "double charging" subscribers. Nearly every new powerset added to the game since launch was charged for in one way or another initially, then made free later. That's precisely how it works now, except WOWZERS we get to choose which ones we get now and which we get later. You may not like having to make a choice, but a lot of people do, and they're not just the fans of the game. I've heard a lot of people saying they're coming back specifically because they like having all these options to choose.

You're opening yourself for attack because you seem to think that "All of it now for Free" is a sensible option, then telling people they're fanbois for pointing out how it isn't.

Not only is what you're saying inaccurate, it's nonsense. The attitude with which it's delivered leaves a lot to be desired too.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Some new power sets - not all
Yes all. Just not all right away.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
But you can't have those because your monthly PP need to be saved up for buying powersets. Oh of course you could just give them extra money and buy the upgrades that way, which is my whole problem with Paragons cash shop.
Your problem really is having to choose what you want most instead of being force fed things you don't want in the order someone else chooses isn't it?

My mind is boggled that you think being able to pick what you most want first is somehow bad for the game or it's customers.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone_Jack View Post
For subscribers who get free points every month, they'll be able to get them all for free.
If we should want them.

I don't plan on buying very many new powersets. There're already so many powersets that I don't play and prob'ly won't play.

But if I see one I want, I will get it.


 

Posted

This sorta flew under the radar so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Not true, you get [Beam Rifle] free with /time.
FALSE. Unless it's changed before I21/Freedom goes Live, Time Manipulation is the only powerset free to VIPs.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
Is there any possibility at all that it's related to the manner and tone in which you posted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Maybe if you disagreed in a non-whining, non-childlike manner? I'm just puttin' it out there.
Bingo.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
This sorta flew under the radar so:


FALSE. Unless it's changed before I21/Freedom goes Live, Time Manipulation is the only powerset free to VIPs.
Re-read what you quoted. "WITH TIME", you get Beam Rifle for free. You also get Street Justice and Titan Weapons for free "WITH TIME". Just by waiting two months each, you'll get them for free.


Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
The competion gives subscribers all new 'powersets' for free.
No they don't.

What they are giving subscribers for free is Archetypes. The archetypes don't have new power sets, they are using specific powers that already exist in their game.

The powers they do sell are sold on an individual basis and cost half of what we are paying for 9 powers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Your problem really is having to choose what you want most instead of being force fed things you don't want in the order someone else chooses isn't it?

My mind is boggled that you think being able to pick what you most want first is somehow bad for the game or it's customers.
The problem isn't whether or not we get to choose what we get.
The problem is that before we didn't choose because we got EVERYTHING.

You might try and use some kind of logic that with the extra income from Freedom they will churn out new stuff faster than we are used to because they can afford a larger development team. To that, I say what about now? What about Beam Guns and Street Justice and all of this stuff developed before that extra income starts rolling in? That stuff was created with the money from our $15 subscriptions. Without Freedom those sets that we paid for with our subbscriptions would be ours for free. Each and every one of them. Everything for sale in Freedom is stuff developed during the time that we paid for.

So why do we have to pay again?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Re-read what you quoted. "WITH TIME", you get Beam Rifle for free. You also get Street Justice and Titan Weapons for free "WITH TIME". Just by waiting two months each, you'll get them for free.
It could easily be read 2 ways. Since the poster wrote it as /time there's nothing wrong with the assumption they meant "along with the time manipulation set"

Without clarification, either interpretation is right, and upon reading it I was willing to call the poster incorrect myself, until I saw someone had done that already.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
No they don't.

What they are giving subscribers for free is Archetypes. The archetypes don't have new power sets, they are using specific powers that already exist in their game.

The powers they do sell are sold on an individual basis and cost half of what we are paying for 9 powers.

Incorrect.

Since F2P they released one new power set, Heavy Weapon, that is free to play to subscribers.

The arch-types are simply guided leveling packs for free to play players (Or uncaring subscribers).

Everything else in the store? Fluff. EXP boosts, tempoary powers, costume packs, travel powers which are exactly the same as the ones subscribers get for free, only with an added particle effect.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
The problem isn't whether or not we get to choose what we get.
The problem is that before we didn't choose because we got EVERYTHING.

You might try and use some kind of logic that with the extra income from Freedom they will churn out new stuff faster than we are used to because they can afford a larger development team. To that, I say what about now? What about Beam Guns and Street Justice and all of this stuff developed before that extra income starts rolling in? That stuff was created with the money from our $15 subscriptions. Without Freedom those sets that we paid for with our subbscriptions would be ours for free. Each and every one of them. Everything for sale in Freedom is stuff developed during the time that we paid for.

So why do we have to pay again?
Incorrect on many levels. We never got everything as part of our sub fee. All the new sets launched with CoV were paid for by people who bought CoV. All the new sets that came with Going Rogue were paid for by people who bought Going Rogue (many of us even paid for early access to those sets).

The money for our sub fees didn't go toward the development of these new paid sets, some of the money from GR and the Boosters did. Now the money from these sets will go toward whatever the next sets to be launched are.

It's just paid for on a case by case basis in Freedom instead of in big chunks with expansions. It's even free for those with the patience to wait a little while.

The money for our subs goes toward whatever THEY say it goes for, not what you decide it goes for. You haven't paid for this new stuff already, you paid for the months of time you got to play, and the things they decided to include as part of the new Issue 21.

Extra stuff is just that. Extra. If you don't think you're getting good value for your money, so be it. But you're not being asked to pay twice, you're not being gouged for wanting it all now. They're doing the same thing they've always done, leveraging the cost of early delivery by allowing people to pay a premium price for it if they want to.

Extra stuff is not free stuff, and no you don't deserve to have it be part of your subscription, and no it hasn't "always" been that way before.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Incorrect on many levels. We never got everything as part of our sub fee. All the new sets launched with CoV were paid for by people who bought CoV. All the new sets that came with Going Rogue were paid for by people who bought Going Rogue (many of us even paid for early access to those sets).

The money for our sub fees didn't go toward the development of these new paid sets, some of the money from GR and the Boosters did. Now the money from these sets will go toward whatever the next sets to be launched are.

It's just paid for on a case by case basis in Freedom instead of in big chunks with expansions. It's even free for those with the patience to wait a little while.

The money for our subs goes toward whatever THEY say it goes for, not what you decide it goes for. You haven't paid for this new stuff already, you paid for the months of time you got to play, and the things they decided to include as part of the new Issue 21.

Extra stuff is just that. Extra. If you don't think you're getting good value for your money, so be it. But you're not being asked to pay twice, you're not being gouged for wanting it all now. They're doing the same thing they've always done, leveraging the cost of early delivery by allowing people to pay a premium price for it if they want to.

Extra stuff is not free stuff, and no you don't deserve to have it be part of your subscription, and no it hasn't "always" been that way before.
You can call me wrong but that doesn't make it true.
This is a mmo, currently our subs are their sole source of income. Anything they do while on the clock is paid for by our subs.

If I had employed a maid to clean my house and then she decided to ask me for a bonus because she vacuumed the floor in addition to cleaning the house, I would have to sit her down and explain to her very carefully that vacuuming the floor is among my expectations included within "cleaning the house". If she couldn't understand that, I would have to reluctantly let her go.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Re-read what you quoted. "WITH TIME", you get Beam Rifle for free. You also get Street Justice and Titan Weapons for free "WITH TIME".
Ahhh, I see the pattern. I bet DG's point is a variation on the old Veteran Rewards Are Stupid "comes with subscription, which means we pay for it, so why can't I just BUY them all NOW" argument. (Remember that?) The points used to acquire the power sets accumulate with VIP subscription time, which means - from that point of view - they're paid for, which means you're not getting the power sets for free. Which is logical, when viewed from a certain angle - the same one that views any complementary touches in any setting with suspicion because The Price Is In There Somewhere.

On the other hand, that's how they've all worked to this point, since except for please-come-back weekends you've never been able to play for free, so the whole argument is kind of a no-op - but that's never stopped people before, so I can't imagine it will now.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
This is a mmo, currently our subs are their sole source of income.
... apart from the studio's giant overseas parent company.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
This is a mmo, currently our subs are their sole source of income.
Boosters and expansions are free?

Seriously. Take the blinders off. Don't ignore obvious facts in an attempt to make your point.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
You can call me wrong but that doesn't make it true.
Correct. Being told you are wrong doesn't make you wrong. The actual facts that prove beyond any shadow of doubt that you are wrong are what makes it true.

But you can believe whatever you want, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Re-read what you quoted. "WITH TIME", you get Beam Rifle for free. You also get Street Justice and Titan Weapons for free "WITH TIME". Just by waiting two months each, you'll get them for free.
That seems like an exceptionally odd way to phrase it, especially since it said "with /time", implying a powerset rather than a demarcation of the continuity of the 4th dimension.

But yes, that is true.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Ahhh, I see the pattern. I bet DG's point is
Whoa whoa whoa, back the truck up right there buddy boy. I didn't have a point except that Beam Rifle is not granted to VIP players for free immediately upon release as Time Manip is. And it's not. You have to spend your points on it, whereas for Time Manip you just get it.

And I'm not criticizing this model, by the way, but congratulations for making a completely wrong assumption based on literally nothing but your own preconceptions.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
Whoa whoa whoa, back the truck up right there buddy boy. I didn't have a point except that Beam Rifle is not granted to VIP players for free immediately upon release as Time Manip is. And it's not. You have to spend your points on it, whereas for Time Manip you just get it.
That's not actually far off what I was thinking - it's still predicated on the points bundled into VIP (that is, paid) membership. The parallel with the vet rewards fight as I remember it is still there.

I was speaking of the mechanical similarity between the two arguments, not trying to define an ideology. Apologies for not putting that across.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
You can call me wrong but that doesn't make it true.
This is a mmo, currently our subs are their sole source of income. Anything they do while on the clock is paid for by our subs.
Well, there's a couple of facts that you're missing... While I was paying for my subscription, they also developed City of Villains, Going Rogue and all the booster packs. Yet, I had to pay for them when they were released if I wanted them immediately. If I had waited a year or two, I would have had CoV for free.

It's the same with certain powersets. I can "pay" for them immediately with the free points I am getting every month.. or if I don't have enough points, I have two options.. buy more points (the way I got the powers and content for Villains/GR/Boosters) or wait until I have enough monthly points. (The way I could have gotten Villains had I chose to wait)

When CoH:F launches we will be given a huge boost of Paragon Points. That will allow us to buy a bunch of stuff.. We know Beam Rifle is for the launch of I21, but if I remember correctly Street Justice isn't for launch. I wouldn't be surprised if Street Justice is set for a month later... giving you 1 more month of Paragon Points.

Right now, Powersets are 800 points, but it has been stated on several occasions that current pricing in the Paragon Store is not set in stone. Some items may be at higher prices right now because it's always easier to lower the price of something than raise it. We do not know for sure that powersets are going to cost 2 months worth of points.


You don't hit smiling monsters - Sister Flame