I'm sorry, but I say no.

You seem to be confused, too, then. Because what we're saying is that we DON'T have access to those powers.

Go back. READ what he said. You "will ALWAYS have access to it and its features."

We don't have access to Incarnates. The question being asked was about Incarnates, and nothing else.

If you don't see how that is a contradiction of current facts, well... the imperfection is yours.

Currently, less than 100% of all powersets are available at no extra cost. Demon Summoning, Dual Pistols, Kinetic Melee and Electric Control require a valid Going Rogue code applied to the account. If you haven't purchased Going Rogue and applied the code to your account, you don't get 100% of all powersets. They cost extra.

I'm sorry that you have a problem understanding what the devs have said, but what you are interpreting is not what Posi posted.

Exactly.

Heh. Sorry, was short-handing my statement. Where I refer to "100%" in that post, I mean "100% of all power sets that have been added for free". And since, if you discount the distinct and unique power sets that were added with CoV, the number of power sets added per year drops to about 2, it makes it even easier for the devs to give us the quantity of "free" power sets we have historically been given in the same absolute quantities.

What you are missing is that unless they add more than six powersets in a year, ALL POWERSETS, EVEN THE PREMIUM POWERSETS will be FREE to VIPs. And even if they add even 6 a year, you are getting more for your subscription dollar than you have ever gotten in the past, even if you can't afford to buy all the powersets.

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

I dunno about you, but I'll be getting every one of the new powersets without spending a dime extra.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Positron's words: "will ALWAYS have access to it and its features."

Access. His word was access. Not "keep."

It's exactly what he said. It's quoted directly from his post.

I don't know why you guys feel the need to twist it to try to cover up the mistake and say "oh he didn't mean Incarnates" or "he meant it wouldn't be deleted, not that you'd have access." He specifically quoted and responded to a question about Incarnates. He specifically said you will keep access.

He said something that was not accurate - he made a mistake. I'm fine with that, he's a human being and sometimes we get our facts wrong - or maybe plans changed between then and now. It was corrected and clarified and now we know for sure what's true. But what he said originally was incorrect. That's it. I don't know why anyone has a problem with that.

You seem to be of the impression that I'm somehow arguing against Freedom. I'm not. Not by a long shot.

And I most assuredly am not missing that factoid.

I'm looking at the whole package. I get 400 free PP per month, and at current prices, it takes 2 months to get a Premium power set. Which means that during those 2 months I will be unable to purchase some costume pieces, which I will be very surprised to see ever added to the game again without requiring an outlay of PPs. Sure, in the third month I can burn my 400 points on those cossie pieces, but that doesn't matter to the people who are arguing against it - their argument is that they would have been given all of those things, for free, without having to use a purchasable currency to do so.

I know that I will get everything I want. I also know that with a little patience I can get everything that I want without spending a penny more than I do now. I also know that if I want to get everything NAO, then I will likely have to pay more money to get it.

All of which is utterly beside the point of some of the arguments. I was addressing a very specific point, which is that some people are using the perception that a reduction in the proportion of "free" (not requiring PPs) powersets as we go into Freedom, somehow is equivalent to a reduction in the quantity of "free" (not requiring PPs) as we go into Freedom, as a way to argue for "all powersets to VIPs for free (and not requiring PPs)".

That position is, frankly, total rubbish. As has been said, the 4,800+ PPs that VIPs get each year is vastly in excess of the 1,600 to 3,200 needed to get 2-4 power sets per year. Simple maths says that on average VIPs will have at least 130+ points each month to buy "other fluff and gubbins" after having "purchased" Premium powersets, which is 1-3 costume pieces (will I be one of the ones sniffing at getting all Premium power sets and 25+ costume pieces that I actually definitely want to have per year? Not a chance.) each month.

I get that. I truly do. The people who have falled for the Equivalency Fallacy don't care. They see that 20% is less than 100% and come on the forums to moan about it. They see that their VIP PPs aren't going to be enough to afford the currently slated power sets when they launch, and they come here and moan about it.

They have failed to recognise both your argument and mine, simply because 20% is less than 100%, not realising that 6 is greater than 4. That's the whole of the matter.

So Positron made a mistake, Positron didn't express what he meant entirely clearly, or the exact content that would be available to Premium subscribers was changed after he made the comment.

Mistakes happen and things change. Some people are acting like Positron has personally jilted them at the altar over this. And yet, people also complain that the devs don't talk to the players enough and that marketing exert too much control over dev interaction. Gosh, I can't imagine why that might be.

I know, this is exactly what I'm saying. He made a mistake. That's cool, it happens, I just asked for clarification. I got the clarification, and I'm satisfied with the answer. I'm not mad at Posi, or Clockwork O1, or anybody at Paragon or NCSoft.

What's getting under my skin is everyone trying to convince me that I misinterpreted his remarks because he couldn't possibly have made an inaccurate statement.

You can try to twist the meaning of Posi's answer all you want but the truth still remains clear for all to see.

The player asked him about keeping the rewards he earned from running Incarnate Trials, and Posi answered that he would always keep what he earned.



The first sentence of Posi's answer deals specifically with Going Rogue and has nothing to do with Incarnate content.

The second sentence answers the players question about the Incarnate rewards.

Positron's post had nothing to do with content. You don't earn Incarnate Trials, you earn the rewards. And it's the rewards you keep if your account drops to Premium.

You know what, I give up. You're right. The question wasn't asking about Incarnate powers at all. Posi's comment CLEARLY had nothing to do with Incarnate powers. I don't see how anyone could possibly think it did.

The reason I posted that is because one of the many whaaaambulance cries of late has been about certain powersets needing to be purchased (whether it's through the free PP's we get with the sub, PP's you pay cash for, or whatever). The false argument many of them have been trying to use is that "we always got all of the powersets for free" when clearly we didn't (individual purchases of CoH and CoV before they fully merged them, purchase of GR, powers in the Super Boosters, etc.).

I see from your clarification that this wasn't your intent. My point is still valid.

I think this is the key point.

If you drop to Premium you won't be able to run the trials, but you'll keep any of the things you earned in trials you ran previously.

At least if I'm understanding it correctly. You'll keep what you already earned, you'll just lose the ability to earn more.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Actually if you drop to Premium, your Incarnate Powers will become greyed out. No incarnate access at all for non-VIPs.

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

I disagree.

Loss of IO usage is a big one.

I am fine with VIP's only having access to Incarnate, but IO's need to be accessed with a lower threshold for qualifying premium status.

Good!

The way the Freedom system works is by having a wide range of different things locked behind Premium tiers. Ideally, (from the pov of the devs), everyone should think that at least one of those is something they can't play the game without. Something for which they can be persuaded to part with money.

The devs don't want people to decide that playing for free is good enough. Really, of course, they want everyone to decide to take out a sub. But failing that, they'll be good with people playing on Premium but throwing $2 a month their way to use IOs, or paying for AH access, or AE access, or Signature arcs, or whatever.

Premium ought to feel incomplete, and incomplete in important ways that matter to players. That's its design.

Out of curiosity, does that include the stuff that is supposed to be usable when a 50 exemps down to 45?

Not to everyone. Of the hundred+ characters I have on two accounts less than 50 use IO's.