I'm sorry, but I say no.


Ad Astra

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
Learn to read people.
Since you opened the door to being blunt and dismissive by doing so to the people who responded to you with this comment, I will say this:

Not until you learn to write.

Dinging people for not understanding your point when you bury it in a lot of passive voice ******** and overused repetition, is ludicrous.

In writing or speaking repetition is a good mechanism for emphasizing your point, but not when it's overused to the point that everything you say looks the same.

On top of that, going on to explain in detail, without giving details and burying your meaning in convoluted language at the same time you expect people to know what aspects of the program you're referring to is not only vague, but next to impossible to parse out.

You'd have been far better off citing the a handful of specific examples of the things you're bothered about, and explaining why they bother you.

Telling people they're not understanding what you said when what you said isn't understandable. Do you see the irony in that?

PS- Don't knock the value of a simple declarative sentence.

PPS- This game has a unique F2P model because out of all the F2P games, it is in a unique position. It's not being born as F2P. It's not trying to save a sinking ship where the subscription model failed. It's got a strong core model based on subscriptions, and they want to give more to those subscribers at the same time they attract new people. They're not out to gouge anyone. They're just trying to stay true to what they have at the same time they accept the changing realities of the MMO market, and create a more efficient delivery mechanism for all the great stuff they have made.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

And to add to Lemur's excellent post, it's also a business. Businesses are there to make money. It's not a public service like trash collection or the police. If they don't make money then even the VIPs eventually will have nothing.

I do think that the Marketing department could take the opportunity to explain that F2P doesn't mean everyone gets everything for free.

But I also wish that people had more common sense when it comes to the issue of paying for entertainment: It would be lovely to have a game as complex and accomplished as City of... that was free, but even saying that exposes how lacking in common sense the idea is.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
PPS- This game has a unique F2P model because out of all the F2P games, it is in a unique position. It's not being born as F2P. It's not trying to save a sinking ship where the subscription model failed. It's got a strong core model based on subscriptions, and they want to give more to those subscribers at the same time they attract new people. They're not out to gouge anyone. They're just trying to stay true to what they have at the same time they accept the changing realities of the MMO market, and create a more efficient delivery mechanism for all the great stuff they have made.
I feel this is a solid starting point for my comments to the OP.

(and yes, I actually tried to read through the OP...)

OP, let's get one thing straight: Paragon/NCSoft is adding a F2P/expanded MTS system into CoH, not converting into a F2P game. If you keep subscribed, nothing changes and you get additional stuff. Simple as that.

Now you say your a 33+ month vet. If I'm looking at the Paragon Rewards right, you'll of cleared Rewards Level 5, which grants access to 'Trollers & MMs, if you go to Premium. Notice that last statement. Anything mentioned in the Rewards Level descriptions that shows content limits apply to Premium players only. Those who stay subscribed don't loose anything.

The Devs and Mods have been upfront since CoH:F announcement that Subscribers are first and foremost priority. They want current players to stay subscribed and new players to subscribe and everyone to use the Paragon Market (Costumes, Emotes, Powers and Powersets, Services, ect.).

Now there are a couple of fair carrots to keep players subbed: EATs and the Incarnate System. Those are the only things even a Rewards Level 8/Tier 9(non-VIP) can't access. I view that as fair.

The only thing I'll add is about the VIP server. I plan to stay on the Servers I usually play on (Liberty, Justice, Pinnacle, Virtue, and Freedom) with maybe rolling one or two new Characters on the VIP server. I may do some consolidation at some point, but I don't plan a whole hearted abandonment of any of my usual servers anytime soon.

Thank you for the time...


@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)

Arc 5299: Magic, Mystery, and Mayhem Updated!! 09/15/09

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
Learn to read people.
I think you meant, "Learn to read, people."

Oh. The irony.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Don't even get me started on the whole paragon points for a subscriber not covering content that we used to get for free issue either.
Please do though. My understanding is that as long as I stay subscribed, I get all of the content I previously had.
Where did you hear that it was different?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
Please do though. My understanding is that as long as I stay subscribed, I get all of the content I previously had.
Where did you hear that it was different?

You get Time Manipulation.

Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.

Street Justice? You have to buy that.

Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.

So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.

The 400 points a month you get? won't cover them either in a single month.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm View Post
The only thing I'll add is about the VIP server. I plan to stay on the Servers I usually play on (Liberty, Justice, Pinnacle, Virtue, and Freedom) with maybe rolling one or two new Characters on the VIP server. I may do some consolidation at some point, but I don't plan a whole hearted abandonment of any of my usual servers anytime soon.

Thank you for the time...
The only reason I can think of him being upset about VIP players using the VIP server is if he planned all along to cancel his subscription and he irrationally fears that everyone he knows will go to the VIP server to get away from him.

Because if he spent any time reading the posts on the forums and the discussions in the game he'd have seen that the majority of players have said that they have no intention of leaving their current servers and only see the VIP server as an additional 12-48 slots that they'll be able to use to store less played characters.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
You get Time Manipulation.
Truth.
Quote:
Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.
Not true, you get it free with /time.
Quote:
Street Justice? You have to buy that.
Truth, but didn't you have to buy Kinetic melee?
Quote:
Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.
Truth, but again, didn't you have to buy Demon Summoning.. or dual pistols, or Elec control?
Quote:
So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.

The 400 points a month you get, won't cover them either in a single month?
Most of the powersets, on BETA are being priced at 800 points. So.. 2 month subscription gives you those powersets for free. Plus we're getting a lump sum of points once Freedom hits live (its currently at like 1200 points i think, 400 a month since july)

Currently if you want a new powerset thats locked before a purchase, you have to dish out the cold hard cash for it. With freedom, you have the option of dishing out the cash, OR waiting until you get enough free points to just buy it then.

Also, Aren't we getting Ice armor stalkers, regen brutes, SR tankers, etc for free? Poison for Controllers, sonic for MMs. Yea, they aren't entirely new powersets, but they are new for the ATs that are getting them.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
You get Time Manipulation.
Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.
Street Justice? You have to buy that.
Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.
You may have previously gotten that content for free, but those aren't content that I previously got for free.

Also, we have several opportunities to pay for power sets and content in the past. This would be just another one of those rather than a radical departure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.
The 400 points a month you get? won't cover them either in a single month.
Unless the prices change.

Additionally I'll have more than a months worth of points to start.

Second, I am not so sure that I even want those. So, to me it's nice that I can spend my points on just the things that I actually want.

I am not yet convinced that I should choose to be angry.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
You get Time Manipulation.

Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.

Street Justice? You have to buy that.

Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.
We'll be getting a gift of 1200-1600 points when Freedom launches. That's pays for both of the powersets up front.


Quote:
So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.

The 400 points a month you get? won't cover them either in a single month.
No they aren't. They only cost extra if you are a petulant 6 year old with entitlement issues that has to have every shiny he sees as soon as he sees it. Much like the Auction House patience is a virtue, with the exception that in the Paragon Market patience means you don't have to pay a penny.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by all_hell View Post
Also, we have several opportunities to pay for power sets and content in the past.
Hell, power sets are nothing, I remember this one time, they sold us five whole Archetypes. And a bunch of zones, but admittedly they were kind of lame.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
Hell, power sets are nothing, I remember this one time, they sold us five whole Archetypes. And a bunch of zones, but admittedly they were kind of lame.
Truth. And a year later they went and gave those same zones and archetypes to every subscriber for free.

Rumor has it they are gonna do the same thing with Going Rogue sometime around October.


 

Posted

Once I learned the details of the Freedom, I thought that F2P wasn't a very accurate description.

To me it's more of an a la carte deal with an optional extended free trial.

I think the OPs frustration comes in part from the fact that Freedom is different from other F2P models he's comfortable with. Frustration more from that than from there being anything actually wrong or unfair about Freedom.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
You get Time Manipulation.

Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.

Street Justice? You have to buy that.

Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.

So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.

The 400 points a month you get? won't cover them either in a single month.
You're making the ultra common mistake of confusing not getting them NOW for free with not getting them for free. You listed 4 powersets. 1 for free, the others available early on the store. At 800 points each, thats 1 powerset every 2 months for 6months.

I don't know what paradigm for free new powersets you're judging this by, but there has been no stretch in the game's seven year history where they added 4 new sets for free that I can think of.

What you're really mad about is that you need to grow some patience in order to enjoy the new stuff for free.

I paid for my GR pre-order so I could get early access to the new powersets. If I like these new sets enough, then I will do the same again. I see no literal difference in the situation.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post

No they aren't. They only cost extra if you are a petulant 6 year old with entitlement issues that has to have every shiny he sees as soon as he sees it. Much like the Auction House patience is a virtue, with the exception that in the Paragon Market patience means you don't have to pay a penny.

The competion gives subscribers all new 'powersets' for free.

Every hybrid MMO I've played gives subscribers classes for free.

Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run. It is okay to say 'I don't like this', you don't need to ad homienem attack anyone who doesn't respond to every move the devs make with a 'Please sir can I have another'.

Edit:

Periods where they added several powersets for free?

Issues 11-13 Added Dual Blades, Willpower, Villain Epics, shield defense, pain domination.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run.
OH MY GOD the "no ur fanboi" defense. The teleporter really did send me back in time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
The competion gives subscribers all new 'powersets' for free.

Every hybrid MMO I've played gives subscribers classes for free.

Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run. It is okay to say 'I don't like this', you don't need to ad homienem attack anyone who doesn't respond to every move the devs make with a 'Please sir can I have another'.
Don't change what your argument is when someone counters your argument. You didn't try to make the point that what CoH is doing is different than what other games do. You tried to make the point that what CoH is doing now is different that what it's done in the past. It's flat out not, and the people telling you so are not Yes Men for saying so.

You're allowed to disagree with the way they do things. But you should have your facts straight on how they did things before, and how they do things now, and how they're not really different.

Additionally, when you bring a crappy attitude, you don't have a leg to stand on when someone calls you on it. If your posts had been reasonable and rational instead of sulky, then the person who pointed out what you said was childish would indeed have been making an ad hominem attack. Instead they were just calling a spade a spade.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run. It is okay to say 'I don't like this', you don't need to ad homienem attack anyone who doesn't respond to every move the devs make with a 'Please sir can I have another'.
The game had its 7th anniversary this year. We're in the long run now, and the thoughts of people who like most of what the devs have done hasn't driven the game into the ground before now.

You're acting like people who are generally ok with the game's direction and say so is a new thing. I've been dealing with complainers like yourself who resort to comments like this for years. It's never been correct, and you're not correct now.

When I disagree with something the devs do, I tell them and make sure I'm heard. However I don't pollute the forums at large with a general bad attitude that makes me sound like a troll. I agree on what I agree on, and I disagree with what I disagree with, and I'm man enough not to sulk when I turn out to be incorrect. Maybe someday you can learn to do the same.


"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Every hybrid MMO I've played gives subscribers classes for free.
Except for this one.

You are upset that this is something different than what you have grown accustomed to. But, it will end up being okay if you give it a chance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
When I disagree with something the devs do, I tell them and make sure I'm heard. However I don't pollute the forums at large with a general bad attitude that makes me sound like a troll. I agree on what I agree on, and I disagree with what I disagree with, and I'm man enough not to sulk when I turn out to be incorrect. Maybe someday you can learn to do the same.
You sheeple.

/agree (With what you, and other reasonable people said :P)


<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Don't change what your argument is when someone counters your argument. You didn't try to make the point that what CoH is doing is different than what other games do. You tried to make the point that what CoH is doing now is different that what it's done in the past. It's flat out not, and the people telling you so are not Yes Men for saying so.

You're allowed to disagree with the way they do things. But you should have your facts straight on how they did things before, and how they do things now, and how they're not really different.

Additionally, when you bring a crappy attitude, you don't have a leg to stand on when someone calls you on it. If your posts had been reasonable and rational instead of sulky, then the person who pointed out what you said was childish would indeed have been making an ad hominem attack. Instead they were just calling a spade a spade.
I needed to look up dates to show a period in which several 'free' powersets were reduced. If I were to be picky I could point out that added 10 powersets during that time.

Are we allowed to disagree though? The moment we do so we are told we are whiny children.

"OMG You don't like the end game, you are a want everything now child!"

"OMG You don't like paying for extra for powersets, You could jsut wait and spend none of your points on QOL upgrades, you want everything now child!"

Always the same bleeding people as well.

All Paragon needed to do was have their cash shop offer 'extras' for their subscribers, the QOL upgrades, the EXP boosters, just like the proven model of Hybrid MMO's. But apparantly pointing out that you dislike them double charging a subscriber, either in actual cash or in months paid (after all the points you save to buy a powerset, can't then be spent on the QOL upgrades), makes you open for attacks .


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution View Post
We get those, problem solved?
But you can't have those because your monthly PP need to be saved up for buying powersets. Oh of course you could just give them extra money and buy the upgrades that way, which is my whole problem with Paragons cash shop.


Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
But you can't have those because your monthly PP need to be saved up for buying powersets. Oh of course you could just give them extra money and buy the upgrades that way, which is my whole problem with Paragons cash shop.
I paid for my second account for 6 months just so I could sgi :P I'm sure if I want Titan Weapons enough, I'll pay for it.

-Plus, we get QoL in updates (also annoying bugs), and 25% xp doesn't sound worth it.


<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Are we allowed to disagree though? The moment we do so we are told we are whiny children.
Is there any possibility at all that it's related to the manner and tone in which you posted?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
Are we allowed to disagree though? The moment we do so we are told we are whiny children.
Maybe if you disagreed in a non-whining, non-childlike manner? I'm just puttin' it out there.