The Escapist on Micro-Transactions
By
Agahnim,
Posted on: 2011-08-08 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Seems contradictory. First he says that you shouldn't sell power because it makes players feel like they have to pay to play, then he says it's okay to sell 'levelling speed' which to me is selling power that makes me feel like I have to pay to play.
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Farewell is like the end
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Seems contradictory. First he says that you shouldn't sell power because it makes players feel like they have to pay to play, then he says it's okay to sell 'levelling speed' which to me is selling power that makes me feel like I have to pay to play.
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Sometimes, Tenzhi, you say something so sublime and wonderful I want to cry.
*wipes tear*
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Not quite.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Seems contradictory. First he says that you shouldn't sell power because it makes players feel like they have to pay to play, then he says it's okay to sell 'levelling speed' which to me is selling power that makes me feel like I have to pay to play.
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Selling a faster levelling speed doesn't inherently unbalance anything; sure some players level faster than others, but they're always going to be equal at any given level. The same goes for things like enhancement unslotters, they're not conferring an inherent advantage to paid players, just a convenience.
The problem comes when you start selling things that give specific advantages to paid players. Things like massive buffs or epic armour or perma-Quad Damage. These things mean that players who pay money can do things that free players can't no matter how much time and effort they put in.
Giving paid players a time/convenience advantage isn't bad (unless you've designed your game in such a way that it is), giving them an ability advantage that free players can't achieve is.
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i love ec, but the guy sometimes is too idealistic for hi own good.
as for tenzi's complaint, I think the distinction he is trying to make is selling items with capacities outside of what you can ever achieve playing the game. say, an item that gives you 5% more damage over and above what you can get by doing all the ingame tasks. leveling, while slightly slower, is something that wont give you a mechanical advantage over other players. everyone gets there, just slower, so its a difference between a convenience and a mathematical disparity. now your personal preferences could be that leveling speed is important enough to be considered power, but i think the distinction is that you wont be any more powerful getting to max level in 3 weeks than i will in 3 months, it will simply be more convenient for you.
an argument could be made, of course, that you could run 3 alts up in that time and build up a stable of characters that would be more reactive to situations than mine, and raid at high level sooner and thus will have access to high tier stuff longer than i, and im not arguing that, just a basic distinction, and frankly, i dont really agree with him even on that level, power is tricky to define. unslotters are a convenience, but if i dont have to juggle io's with limited enhance space in a full respec or destroy old sets that i can then tos to alts, then that certainly is a form of power for sale, but I dont see it fitting his math definition.
Anyway, good video with some very good points and I think, on the whole, that Freedom ticks most of the boxes.
That said, I still have concerns about the VIP Server (If handled badly) and the Chat/Team Forming/Forum Posting restrictions on F2P players discouraging them from engaging with the community.
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I guess the COH equivalent example to selling power might be selling access to the enhancement screen and system.
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Yeah, liked the vid. Good points.
I do still think the VIP server is....well, it's a hit and miss thing.
Downside;
It splits the player base into 'Them and Us' kinda thing.
Upside;
The people who'll use it are, odds on, probably NOT the kind of people you want interacting with Freebies anyway. Because they'll be intolerant, egotistical and cold shouldering goits that you want away from new peeps. Leaving only those who are more welcoming or, at the worst, a little indifferent to everyone.
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Convenience is an advantage.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Not quite.
Selling a faster levelling speed doesn't inherently unbalance anything; sure some players level faster than others, but they're always going to be equal at any given level. The same goes for things like enhancement unslotters, they're not conferring an inherent advantage to paid players, just a convenience. The problem comes when you start selling things that give specific advantages to paid players. Things like massive buffs or epic armour or perma-Quad Damage. These things mean that players who pay money can do things that free players can't no matter how much time and effort they put in. Giving paid players a time/convenience advantage isn't bad (unless you've designed your game in such a way that it is), giving them an ability advantage that free players can't achieve is. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Wasn't this video posted before, swear I've seen it here before.
-Edit-
Found it, posted a while back by Samuel_Tow
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Might be the wrong place to post this, but this is the only applicable thread within the first page, so here goes:
Extra Credit released a very cool video on microtransactions that's probably worth seeing. |
And a rebuttal by LordKat also posted in the thread
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
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Yep, don't think i'll be using the VIP server. Its a daft idea imo -_-.
I've played a few f2p games, and i've actually used the store in two to buy levelling speed and to get some cool outfits (they had a catgirl outfit, i HAD to!).
The levelling speed isn't power. It doesn't make my character hit harder or make me live longer. But it did save me from having to grind out a level to get to next content.
I did try one where they were selling power. You could buy an item which would automatically heal you to full when you dropped to 25% health. It effectively let you do content you were sposed to have a team to do. They gave you one to sample as you levelled up. Might've been fine, but they put in so much content which required groups it just got tedious. I never gave in and bought them, i quit instead 
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yeah it was posted in several freedom related threads, but never as a stand alone topic. and wow, lordkat was far less convincing than ec, even though i think ec was being fundamentally naive. is that guy usually such a condescending twit? he barely had a point beyond pedantic pronunciation snipes and hair splitting over what constitutes a microtranaction.
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Originally Posted by Unknown_User
Wasn't this video posted before, swear I've seen it here before.
And a rebuttal by LordKat also posted in the thread |
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I haven't seen that word used in a long time. Happy memories. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...goits...
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Personally I don't see selling levelling speed as selling power. It's no different to an intensive powerlevelling session. It's little more than a convenience, albeit a possible detrimental one as you'd out-level content faster, but YMMV.
A possible (and I hope never to be implemented) example of CoH selling power would be if they introduced some form of super enhancement, unattainable in game, which boosted 3-4 stats to ridiculous levels and was unaffected by ED.
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That's a few of the issues I have with EC video on micro-transactions. Guy comes off thinking that everything will be sunshine and lollipops if every MMO and Game Developer followed the guidelines he states in his video. I just can't take the video very seriously, and quite honestly anything he says about the issue comes off as a basic gamer rant.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
... even though i think ec was being fundamentally naive...
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I'm inclined to agree with Sapph here. Even with a few informal chats with Z and B, I still don't get the allure of the VIP server, UNLESS I get free unlimited transfers or, better yet, character copies to that server, to socialize with players from other server hosts. |
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Yep, don't think i'll be using the VIP server. Its a daft idea imo -_-.
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I don't like the idea of being away from new players. I feel like a Bad Parent(tm).
(I did like the prime placement of the COH screenshot at 2m37s, with the comment of "Players ARE content".)
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Not a gameplay advantage.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Convenience is an advantage.
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That's...|
Originally Posted by Unknown_User
And a rebuttal by LordKat also posted in the thread
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quite something. Disgustingly so.
All I could get what "I settle for things already existing, stop trying to make more things! It's bad!".
I'm thinking the writing was made too fast / s/he didn't re-read what s/he wrote before posting it.
I mean it's like puking on my screen from across the internetz.
And no, the video from the other link is not the word of god or whatever, either.
It's just heading in a better direction; not necessarily the best (all things being situational and all).
That video was so annoying I couldn't finish it.
Rambling in a sped-up voice != sound advice for the gaming industry.
And furthermore, if costume pieces in the new Freedom system are literally going to cost anywhere from 1-4 quarters apiece, why is a video on microtransaction price-gouging even relevant?
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I'm hoping that they do sell powers. Would love to buy some.
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Actually, the problem here is that the notion of an "advantage" is vague. Let me be precise. The reason why you should be cautious about selling "power" is specifically because most MMOs are built with a design principle of game balance: balance between the power levels of players and other players, and balance between the power levels of players and the content. If you're going to factor these metrics into the design of your game, then selling power that can directly affect these metrics is, essentially, selling the ability to affect those design metrics to players. Its, in effect, selling your design soul. |
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Not quite.
Selling a faster levelling speed doesn't inherently unbalance anything; sure some players level faster than others, but they're always going to be equal at any given level. The same goes for things like enhancement unslotters, they're not conferring an inherent advantage to paid players, just a convenience. The problem comes when you start selling things that give specific advantages to paid players. Things like massive buffs or epic armour or perma-Quad Damage. These things mean that players who pay money can do things that free players can't no matter how much time and effort they put in. Giving paid players a time/convenience advantage isn't bad (unless you've designed your game in such a way that it is), giving them an ability advantage that free players can't achieve is. |
That's why you have to be extremely careful. But I think the Extra Credit video is being extremely oversimplistic, because even by their own reckoning there is a difference between "convenience" and "power" when that line is actually very blurry. They also specifically mention the issue of earning in-game *real* money, and and if anything equals power, its cash. They say its fine to earn actual currency that is equivalent (if not directly exchangeable) to cash, so long as the time cost is balanced to be extremely long.
If that is the case, then as a corollary it should be ok to sell "power" provided that the boost that is sold is counterbalanced by their effective monetary cost. For example, no one would care if players could buy small insps from the store at almost any cost however small, because those things fall from the sky and can be earned in-game trivially. Their monetary cost is practically zero. You'd only be selling convenience. Access to much more powerful inspirations, on the other hand, has to be more carefully considered because those are things that can grant to the player more effective power than they otherwise could have. But that's tempered by the fact that inspirations have limited lifespan, ones you can earn in the game are already pretty powerful anyway, and in terms of overall impact they can't do much more than affect a single fight or two.
There is a huge grey area that I think the Extra Credit video bulldozes over. Perhaps that's because its been radically oversimplified to target a relatively uninvolved audience. But if that is the case, its basically saying nothing interesting to me I haven't thought about myself for a long time.
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I did point out in the post that the link is originally in that LordKat basically argued semantics over what a Microtransaction was. He uses the definition used by companies then does a 'oh but if you're using the generic term...' as if 95% of gamers don't simply use the term 'Microtransaction' to mean exactly the same as Extra Credits uses the term for. It seemed like him being an (PANCAKE) for (PANCAKE) sake. |
Originally Posted by Narkor
That's...
quite something. Disgustingly so. All I could get what "I settle for things already existing, stop trying to make more things! It's bad!". I'm thinking the writing was made too fast / s/he didn't re-read what s/he wrote before posting it. I mean it's like puking on my screen from across the internetz. And no, the video from the other link is not the word of god or whatever, either. It's just heading in a better direction; not necessarily the best (all things being situational and all). |
If there's one thing I can't stand its people arguing like that, the 'oh but the dictionary says this' line of arguement is always the easiest and most boring to use and wins only on technicality.
I will say that Extra Credits does edge into the 'naive' side of things sometimes but LordKat just came across as a proper (PANCAKE) in that rebuttal, there's a way to disagree with someone without being petty and whiney about it.
Edit: Seriously every single letter Mods...I could understand if the word was reduced to Pancake but that's just god damn annoying (and yes I did just editted it down to one word per censor, rather than having about eight of them replacing one word).
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Glad I wasn't the only one.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
That video was so annoying I couldn't finish it.
Rambling in a sped-up voice != sound advice for the gaming industry. |
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I'll be using it for the free slots.
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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Yep, don't think i'll be using the VIP server. Its a daft idea imo -_-.
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LordKat was naive in his own way:|
Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
I will say that Extra Credits does edge into the 'naive' side of things sometimes but LordKat just came across as a proper (PANCAKE) in that rebuttal, there's a way to disagree with someone without being petty and whiney about it.
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| for example, your contention that developers shouldn't sell items that unbalances the game only applies in cases where player-versus-player interaction is essential to a fun environment |
I hear this a lot in online discussions:
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| While I fundamentally agree that keeping a multiplayer game balanced between the haves and have-nots is essential to cultivating a positive ecosystem. This model does not apply to games that simply don't rely on player-versus-player interaction; for example player-versus-enemy only online games, single player games, and social networking games. |
But just to close out the idea, I'll look at an exception that proves the rule:
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| While we're on the topic of social games, let's talk about Zynga (pronounced "zin-ga" as clarified numerous times by the CEO, you erroneously called "zain-ga"). This company - and many others like it - does not fit your model of the ideal microtransaction business. In fact, if they were to take your advice, and balance the haves with the have nots, games like Farmville would undoubtedly see their profits take a sharp dive. |
Because there is no balance requirements in Farmville (in this sense) there is no balance to break in selling "power." Its not that the rules don't apply to Farmville, its that Farmville doesn't implement anything the rules talk about.
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Not really. For example, the attitude of the video on buying leveling speed was grudging acceptance, rather than a glowing endorsement. And in the end they say that micro-transactions aren't a panacea and some games should remain subscription-based.|
Originally Posted by Unknown_User
That's a few of the issues I have with EC video on micro-transactions. Guy comes off thinking that everything will be sunshine and lollipops if every MMO and Game Developer followed the guidelines he states in his video. I just can't take the video very seriously, and quite honestly anything he says about the issue comes off as a basic gamer rant.
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The issue with segregating players based on what they pay for is already a problem. Several times I've been in a league and the leader queues us, but this fails. He then wastes five or 10 minutes of 20 people's time trying to figure out what's going on, and eventually someone realizes that they haven't bought Going Rogue (or are not yet level 50, which makes me want to rap the leader's knuckles). Not getting into Praetoria isn't as much of a problem, but I've been on teams where someone wanted to do the zone event there, I've spent five minutes getting my character there, and then the player who doesn't have GR is stuck in Pocket D, and then the zone event ends and it was all for naught.
This will only get worse as the number of pay-to-play content choices increases (the signature arcs will have the same problem, I assume). The devs are betting that the have-nots will be convinced to join their friends and pony up the cash when they can't get into the content. But the other possibility is have-nots will quit in disgust, irritated by getting nickeled and dimed to death, and their subscribing friends will follow them.
The point is, segregation causes delays, problems that appear to be bugs and annoyance for everyone, including paying players.
It's a tough call either way, and I don't envy the devs having to make decisions like this. I'm fine with subscriptions, but I can see the MT pressure mounting.
An interesting look at micro-transaction models, especially as it applies to the upcoming COHF.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...rotransactions
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