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Why twist what he is saying? It is a far stretch to take an example of someone who is happy to get a reaction from others to ****.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because "no" means "yes", right?
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So that means things like normal gym clothes or riding pants should be avoided, even though they're designed to be practical?
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Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
Yea, i never understood why some females wear very low cut tops or tight pants then get offended when people look at them.
I'd guess they actually want the attention, then try act all offended to get even more attention to themselves so more people look/stare. Cause i'm pretty sure that if you don't wanna be stared at, you dress to cover, not tease  (much like the OP of this thread tbh). |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You're doing a really good job of completely missing my point. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So only dark colors and plenty of covering can keep the Neanderthals away?
Because "no" means "yes", right? |
And we're probably talking about 2 different things.
I'm talking about the kind of tops with a neckline so low you can practically see their belly button. Tops where the bottom strap of their bra is clearly visible. Tops where there is no doubt whatsoever that it was explicitly designed to show off a woman's chest.
And I'm not talking about the guys that will stand there blatantly staring at a woman's chest or make rude comments. I'm talking about the kind of guy who is going to look and then go on about his business.
When a woman wears a top like that and then gets pissed when a guy so much as glances at their chest, it's a little messed up.
Or are you trying to say that you have never in your life taken an appreciative glance at a good looking guy with his shirt off? If you have, you've got no real room to talk.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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People will look regardless of what you're wearing, just some things draw less attention than others.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So that means things like normal gym clothes or riding pants should be avoided, even though they're designed to be practical?
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Because that's who she is and what she does.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Why twist what he is saying?
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Yep.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Because that's who she is and what she does.
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You'd think I would know better by now.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
This thread has taken an ugly turn.
I assume that women wear clothes that they think are comfortable and/or they look good in. This doesn't imply any consent to being ogled, by men or women.
Is this a difficult concept?
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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I think us sane people understand that, but when certain clothes are practically made to show off your body...well...consent is kinda thrown out the window, whether it's Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition good, or Borat DO NOT WANT
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
This thread has taken an ugly turn.
I assume that women wear clothes that they think are comfortable and/or they look good in. This doesn't imply any consent to being ogled, by men or women. Is this a difficult concept? |
I'll bite (so to speak...)
One point:
Is it ok for me to look without the person in question finding out that I'm looking?
I would think the answer is generally no, because I didn't invade anyone's space.
Then, it's the 'discomfort caused by the looking', and not the 'looking' that is the issue.
Another point:
And 'looking' is generally not considered 'Neanderthal', right?
Just a few points I thought might merit consideration.
** - 'looking', here, does not mean 'staring slack-jawed at someone.'
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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People are going to look anyway, attractive or not, pretty much regardless of what's being worn. It's called being human. Is this a difficult concept? There's nothing "ugly" about it. And it applies to men as well as women. |
Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
This thread has taken an ugly turn.
I assume that women wear clothes that they think are comfortable and/or they look good in. This doesn't imply any consent to being ogled, by men or women. Is this a difficult concept? |
That said, there's a difference between, say, checking someone out as he or she walks past and getting up and following them around making comments. The first happens, don't sweat it. It's silly to get offended or outraged about. The second is when you get security (or make sure there's not toilet paper stuck to your shoe or something.)
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Wait... you have... Gingervitis! |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I would like a server for only people with red hair. One of my characters often gets harassed because of the color of his hair, and it is very sensitive to me since I also happen to have red hair in real life. Everyone who sees my character is obviously aware of this, and that's why they choose to torment me.
 |
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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This thread has a valid question in the original post. And the correct answer (/petition, /ignore, move on) was already given.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Because that's who she is and what she does.
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But I knew, I just knew, when I saw the thread title that certain persons would come in here and do their usual thing and waste everyone's time with the usual shallow and vacuous posts.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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This tends to be true. Light, even slightly baggy clothing, actually tends to be best for warding off heat-related illnesses, and, obviously, exposing more skin similarly exposes one to harmful UV rays (and the painful sunburns that go along with them!).
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
exposing more skin when it's hot outside is actually a bad thing if I remember right, of course that doesn't involve going to the beach.
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You don't care what people think about what you wear.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So only dark colors and plenty of covering can keep the Neanderthals away?
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Ummm, no. Because then your gonna have to have male only servers. and the male PRETENDING they're a female server, and the female pretending they're a male server, and the chicken pretending they're a human server, and the intelligent space alien that is using CoH as a way to learn about humanity before invading and destroying us server, and the wall of text that pretends to be a complete paragraph server.
Just say no, and use your ignore.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
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When I go out in the summer, I wear a T-shirt, and an unbuttoned white over-shirt. That will actually keep me cooler than going out in one of my typical black t-shirts. In the winter, I'll wear a T-shirt, a flannel shirt, and a denim jacket. The only time I'll wear anything shorter than blue (or black) jeans is when I go swimming. No matter what I wear (other than dress clothes) I'm comfortable. I'm also not really sending an obvious open invitation to be ogled by every woman on the planet either. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because it's more comfortable in hot weather than something with a high neck?
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The clothes I wear to draw attention to myself are my pirate or Renaissance costumes. Those actually cover more of me than my normal clothes. And wearing a Steampunk leather jacket in the summer isn't as hot as you'd think, if it's fitted correctly.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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I was actually agreeing with you. For myself, looking alone will never constitute harassment. There needs to be something more - a comment or action - before it reaches that stage.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I never said women wearing revealing clothing should expect to be harassed. But they should expect that a low cut top is going to draw attention to their chest.
I was referring to those women who wear a low cut, brightly colored shirt that draws attention to their chest, who then get upset when people look at their chest. Some people's definition of harassment is "that guy glanced at my cleavage when he was waiting on me at the store, he's harassing me!" Also, you'd be amazed at the number of women who make a big show of being offended when someone looks at their chest, who are then smiling as they walk away. (I work at a job where I have the opportunity to observe people without drawing much attention to myself, few people notice the janitor) |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
People are going to look anyway, attractive or not, pretty much regardless of what's being worn. It's called being human. Is this a difficult concept? There's nothing "ugly" about it. And it applies to men as well as women.
That said, there's a difference between, say, checking someone out as he or she walks past and getting up and following them around making comments. The first happens, don't sweat it. It's silly to get offended or outraged about. The second is when you get security (or make sure there's not toilet paper stuck to your shoe or something.) |
edit - sp.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Yes, it's a difficult concept. Mainly because one doesn't *need* consent to "ogle". Looking, in public, is free. Man or woman, what you look like and what you wear may affect how often (or how long) you are looked at in public. If you dont like being looked at you can try to dress in such way as to avoid attention or else don't go out in public, but the public has every right to look at what is publically displayed.
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
This thread has taken an ugly turn.
I assume that women wear clothes that they think are comfortable and/or they look good in. This doesn't imply any consent to being ogled, by men or women. Is this a difficult concept? |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Hello everyone,
We understand that these are issues that many of you feel strongly about. Sexism and other forms of harassment are unacceptable regardless of the context, and we encourage players to make use of the petition and ignore features as appropriate. As many people have stated, ignoring does not solve the underlying problem of a player harassing others, but it can ensure that you are not bothered until we can address your petition.
As far as this thread is concerned, there have been an alarming amount of personal attacks, inappropriate comments, and generally disrespectful language. I would like to remind you all to treat each other with respect, and to avoid incendiary political commentary. These subjects are not appropriate for the City of Heroes Forums.
Thank you,
Moderator 13
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Not anoucing you are a girl is not lying about your gender. If your a lil thin skined about having suggestive comments thrown your way I think it's valid advice to just simple not state your a girl. There is no lie in the silence. |
Originally Posted by MisterMagpie
Little uncomfortable by how many times I saw the suggestion that (general) you should lie about your gender to avoid abuse, because that puts the blame on you for you know, being honest. Or being a woman at all.
I much preferred the report them suggestions, which I should have done when a guy decided that since I was talking to him on a female avatar, that meant I wanted him to send me pictures of his *****. I was so confused, I thought it was a radioactive mushroom. |
I give similar advice for those entering PvP zones for the first time, turn off broadcast to avoid some of the harsher comments.
If you do get bothered (in game) then reporting it in game is an option, with /ignore the follow up. There is very little recourse for any thing said on a teamspeak/ventrilo server though other than to complain to the server owner.
Whats really interesting is the pic's that some of the "girls" in the game post on CoH faces (sometimes weekly if not daily). Some are very showing and suggestive I would imagine it garners a bit of attention when they are seen in game. I have also known people to behave in such a way to get guys in the game to give them things or PL them I know both girls and guys pretending to be girls (who even post girl pics to their faces account) who do this. Everyones reaction to "attention" is different. The OP never defined what she felt was harasment, it may not be what someone else defines it as.
There is always a certain amount of personal responsibility that we need to take in both our actions and our reactions.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Great quote.../agree with post also.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
There is always a certain amount of personal responsibility that we need to take in both our actions and our reactions.
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So, I should be excluded because some people, of the same sex as me, harass others...
Suddenly, I feel like I'm being discriminated against!!
Can't we all just get along?
(Funny... If I follow that with a "Nudge, nudge, say no more..." it takes on a different meaning in context of this thread... Oh, great... now I'm going to be shunned for this...)
Eh... Okay, in a bit of seriousness...
Being harassed and/or just dealing with rude, stupid, immature and inappropriate stuff sucks and it makes me mad that we have to deal with such things from time to time.
I've had situations where RL friends of mine have run into issues with virtual strangers over-stepping the bounds.
Fortunately, nothing too bad and everything was manageable with a bit of friendly intervention and words to set things straight.
It wasn't on the rude side though. More on the lack of understanding of personal boundaries side of things. Which, some people don't seem to have the ability to recognize.
Directly to the OP (and anyone else who may have to deal with these things):
I highly suggest nipping these things in the bud.
Don't put up with a little bit. Make your opinion clear. Stop it right away.
If this does not bring positive results immediately, /ignore and/or report.
Ditch the Team, League, TF whatever, as no game function is worth any personal hassle whatsoever and no reasonable person could disagree.
If the people respond and behave agreeably afterward, then great. If not... then these are not the kind of people that you want to play with (obviously), so ignore and/or report and move on.
It's not cowardly. It's brave, smart and the right thing to do.
Most importantly... For every rare jerk that is out there, there are tons of reasonable, mature and great players to have fun with.
Don't lump them all together. Dismiss those unworthy and continue to play with and meet the people who are worthy. Everyone will be better for it.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Might I suggest closing this thread? The OP did later admit to it being on a Teamspeak server, outside your remit, and the correct action has been repeated several times already. And there's been nothing but social commentary for the last few pages.|
Originally Posted by Moderator 13
Hello everyone,
We understand that these are issues that many of you feel strongly about. Sexism and other forms of harassment are unacceptable regardless of the context, and we encourage players to make use of the petition and ignore features as appropriate. As many people have stated, ignoring does not solve the underlying problem of a player harassing others, but it can ensure that you are not bothered until we can address your petition. As far as this thread is concerned, there have been an alarming amount of personal attacks, inappropriate comments, and generally disrespectful language. I would like to remind you all to treat each other with respect, and to avoid incendiary political commentary. These subjects are not appropriate for the City of Heroes Forums. Thank you, Moderator 13 |
To add something to the discussion: I was once playing my second female Tanker, who admittedly does have her chest slider leaning to the right but doesn't walk around in the eden-bikini combo. I went idle in the Atlas hospital where a superman-clone going by Cal-El asked if I wanted to team then because I didn't answer immediately (checked my logs and there was about five seconds between this) he called her a **** and ran off which is where I returned. I sent a petition in about it and the next time I saw him he'd had his name changed and was complaining that he'd just come back from a suspension. I was on a different toon that time but it was gratifying that he'd been suitably chastised for either his behaviour, the infringement or both.
In real life there is a certain burden of proof but online there are chatlogs and banhammers.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Also, just because they look, doesn't make them a neanderthal. If they start making noises and rude gestures towards you, then you have a point.