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It doesn't crit. It just hits for harder than an AS crit all the time.
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Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Is that with or with out a crit?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Then to be perfectly blunt about it, they're going to lose to the typical pvp characters. There's a reason that they're typical. And I even play some of those "non-traditional" characters in "just for fun" arena matches, but I don't expect to be successful, or even really competitive. |
Originally Posted by Mod_Noc
Because some players have fun playing toons that are different than the topical pvp toons?
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Playing a melee in general isn't a recipe for killing things in PvP, it's more of an "I don't want to die as often" move - and if you don't want the typical PvP character you wouldn't even ask about a Regen, which has been FotM since forever. The difference between a Regen Brute and a Regen Scrapper is that the Scrapper has a chance to get a kill or two against someone not paying attention, while for the Brute they have to also be either stupid or afk.
Welcome to damage-spam-and-sack-of-hp PvP. Issue 13 did more to kill variety and encourage FotM builds while simultaneously increasing the barrier to entry due to changing how powers work, in direct opposition to the stated goals of encouraging new players to try it and reducing "requisite" builds. That's why it's a huge failure, and why it never should have gone live and should have been revisited long before now.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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And why I have readily ignored PvP zones since then. Still hoping for a revert! *crosses fingers*
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Welcome to damage-spam-and-sack-of-hp PvP. Issue 13 did more to kill variety and encourage FotM builds while simultaneously increasing the barrier to entry due to changing how powers work, in direct opposition to the stated goals of encouraging new players to try it and reducing "requisite" builds. That's why it's a huge failure, and why it never should have gone live and should have been revisited long before now.
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No snarky involved, but good luck waiting for a PvP zone reversion of pre-i13 play...its i21 now. I guess it could happen, just seems unlikely at this point.
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Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
And why I have readily ignored PvP zones since then. Still hoping for a revert! *crosses fingers*
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"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
I've been trying to find an SS character I can stick with.
An SS/Regen brute might be the one.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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It has always seemed unlikely. No one ever reverts - they move forward. A revamp that pulls in some of the better parts of pre-i13 and throws out 99.9% of post-i13 is possible. A revert is a waste of time to ask for.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
No snarky involved, but good luck waiting for a PvP zone reversion of pre-i13 play...its i21 now. I guess it could happen, just seems unlikely at this point.
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Note that this in no way shape or form implies I think a revert would be a bad idea, it's just that it is never going to happen, so I feel energy is better spent pushing for something that may happen.
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A lot of that math has already been done with scrappers here:|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Here is a thought. Since WP has stolen so much of Regen's thunder what about taking part of it back? I was thinking maybe its possible to spec a regen in such a way that its closer to WP. While I know defense wont be possible without broadsword or katana I am just going to forgo that part since its just a cruch that makes the set not look as bad as it is and work on resistance and regeneration as well as HP. In a sense what I want to try is to get enough passive regeneration that it equals a fully saturated RttC when instant healing is not in use. Essentially I do not want to use instant healing unless I just absolutely have to. While I have seen how most folks say get as much recharge as you can that does not do a whole lotta good when we have so much -recharge right now. Its to the point where red side is just a freaking death sentence for any regen. This build I am trying work on will be for hero only brutes that will do most end game stuff aside from the incarnate trials. So you guys think this will be a waste of time or even possible?
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=260718
Unless you are dead set on skipping iTrials; Rebirth +regen side == significant amounts of time spent at the regen cap.
Okay, so that's sort of cheating in terms of builds.Either way, recharge is your friend. Stacking dp in beta was pretty interesting, though I'm not sure how to get there without burnout. Haven't really settled on a combo yet though, was hoping stj/ would be out sooner rather than later :/
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Assuming you take Hasten (and, I think, that's one of the almost-required powers for a clicky set like Regen) you need a little north of 70% global recharge for perma DP. Won't have it double-stacked often with that amount but you can crack 100-120% before Hasten if you go crazy with IOs and then you should have it stacked for a decent amount of time.
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Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
Stacking dp in beta was pretty interesting, though I'm not sure how to get there without burnout.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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WP's RttC make regen feel weak when you look at WP's other layers it has good def and res i think regen needs something what SR has possible way to get capped regen debuff resistance and res scaling as SR the lower the HP the tougher you become give sometime to get reconstrution off and maybe give Intergration 200% regen base fully enhanceable.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Here is a thought. Since WP has stolen so much of Regen's thunder what about taking part of it back? I was thinking maybe its possible to spec a regen in such a way that its closer to WP. While I know defense wont be possible without broadsword or katana I am just going to forgo that part since its just a cruch that makes the set not look as bad as it is and work on resistance and regeneration as well as HP. In a sense what I want to try is to get enough passive regeneration that it equals a fully saturated RttC when instant healing is not in use. Essentially I do not want to use instant healing unless I just absolutely have to. While I have seen how most folks say get as much recharge as you can that does not do a whole lotta good when we have so much -recharge right now. Its to the point where red side is just a freaking death sentence for any regen. This build I am trying work on will be for hero only brutes that will do most end game stuff aside from the incarnate trials. So you guys think this will be a waste of time or even possible?
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just my 2 cents
Instead of adding different layers of mitigation to help Regen Brutes out... how about we stick with the core concept and use it in different ways. Don't get me wrong, I love that we get some resists to help us out... but the set is all about healing yourself in order to survive. Why not give us a toggle that does a decent heal over time? We've seen the concept (HoT) in action with the Time Manipulation set.. wouldn't it make even more sense on a Regen? And the best part is: -Regen powers wouldn't effect it because it's not technically regen.
I suggest Resilience be changed to a toggle, and add a moderate Self-HoT to it. Of course, balancing it could be tricky. I'm not good with numbers, but I'm thinking if it healed... maybe... 150 HP (roughly 10%) every 5 seconds @ level 50 un-enhanced? Does that sound pretty fair?
I'll submit that regen is THE iconic brute defense set (with the iconic brute being the Hulk). I do think that it could be improved though. Especially revive. Why does the set that is all about coming back from defeat have the weakest rez in the game? I would add 10 seconds of invulnerability and 60s of IH level regeneration if I had my way.
TW/Elec Optimization
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Hell, i'd settle for increased heal (say, 75% base, instead of 50%) and 10 seconds of untouchable, that way you can atleast get on your feet before being knocked down again.|
Originally Posted by Combat
I'll submit that regen is THE iconic brute defense set (with the iconic brute being the Hulk). I do think that it could be improved though. Especially revive. Why does the set that is all about coming back from defeat have the weakest rez in the game? I would add 10 seconds of invulnerability and 60s of IH level regeneration if I had my way.
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Heck, the second worst self rez (willpower) still gives a pretty massive +damage +tohit buff..
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Hulk is far more Inv than Regen. His 'raaaaaarrrrghhhh!' and heal quickly from being near the point of defeat is probably why Inv has dull pain.|
Originally Posted by Combat
I'll submit that regen is THE iconic brute defense set (with the iconic brute being the Hulk). I do think that it could be improved though. Especially revive. Why does the set that is all about coming back from defeat have the weakest rez in the game? I would add 10 seconds of invulnerability and 60s of IH level regeneration if I had my way.
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Though if you want a good 90s+ hulk defense set it's WP. Highly resistant to physical attacks, less resistant to energy attacks, slightly resistant to psi attacks (Hulk is often 'too angry' to mind control), and a really fast healing factor. Basically if you can't one shot him, you aren't beating him down. Which is exactly how WP plays out.
The concept behind WP doesn't match the game effects of the set in the slightest.
I like your changes to revive, though. As has been pointed out you're better off taking resilience and using an awaken. At least you get resistances for the time you're on your feet rather than a rez that will often have you faceplanted before animation is complete (I use revive and queue moment of glory. Sometimes that's enough to get me upright again.)
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Well, in my mind Hulk has minor resistances to amazing resistances depending on anger level (resilience to popping MoG), and he has max level regeneration. He can regrow organs, skins, and muscle tissue as well as heal any injury. His healing isn't connected to his brain, but his DNA, allowing to regrow even if his head is destroyed, and the only sure way to kill him is to destroy every DNA molecule in his body. Hulk has even demonstrated the ability to regenerate from being reduced to gamma irradiated cells. His invulnerability is actually the IH of olden days, where you simply regenerate so fast that wounds don't have time to become visible.
I'll concede that Willpower is probably a "better" regeneration, both I believe both took serious cues from the Hulk. Willpower just took better cues and was better implemented. In all honesty, I think Willpower would have been named regeneration if regeneration hadn't already existed.
TW/Elec Optimization
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This is why I refer to Regeneration (powerset) as Self-Empathy. Willpower IS what Regeneration wants to be.
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Originally Posted by Combat
I'll concede that Willpower is probably a "better" regeneration...Willpower just took better cues as was better implemented. In all honesty, I think Willpower would have been named regeneration if regeneration hadn't already existed.
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Maybe turn IH back to a toggle 100% regen enhanceable than something that starts at 60% HP for every 1% you get below 60% max HP regen increases 10% (around 19% when slotted)
i would make it unique and give the feel of instand healing the worse the wounds the harder it start to regenerate the health back.
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Hulk is one of my favorite characters, and a large part of why BRute is my favorite AT, but I can't say I like all of what they've done since Peter David's run, where fans where freaking that Hulk could regenerate a hole through his upper body, as far as his healing factor is concerned.|
Originally Posted by Combat
Well, in my mind Hulk has minor resistances to amazing resistances depending on anger level (resilience to popping MoG), and he has max level regeneration. He can regrow organs, skins, and muscle tissue as well as heal any injury. His healing isn't connected to his brain, but his DNA, allowing to regrow even if his head is destroyed, and the only sure way to kill him is to destroy every DNA molecule in his body. Hulk has even demonstrated the ability to regenerate from being reduced to gamma irradiated cells. His invulnerability is actually the IH of olden days, where you simply regenerate so fast that wounds don't have time to become visible.
I'll concede that Willpower is probably a "better" regeneration, both I believe both took serious cues from the Hulk. Willpower just took better cues and was better implemented. In all honesty, I think Willpower would have been named regeneration if regeneration hadn't already existed. |
Regenerate from gamma irradiated cells? Explain that to the Maestro, a far more powerful future Hulk, who died when he was sent back in time to ground zero of the gamma bomb test that created him and vaporized (not the distance Banner was when he was irradiated, which wouldn't bug any version of Hulk in the slightest).
That aside I would love to see even more regeneration buffs. Conceptually I love regenerators (though not the regrow from a cell ones like Deadpool) and play even my Inv's like they are regenerating the damage almost as fast as it's accumulating.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Well, technically Maestro came back, even if he was in a weakened state (I believe its issue #460, but don't quote me). I think Maestro even says something to the effect that he and the Hulk will always come back, whether it takes minutes or decades. I'm not completely sure, its been awhile, but I do think that Hulk regeneration is supposed to be immune to everything but god/incarnate levels of power.
And yes, I love the conceptual of comic book regeneration as well, if not quite the level of the Hulk. Personally, if I were to buff /regen it would be to IH and Revive. Not huge buffs, but substantial ones, like letting all of IH be enhanced and the Revive buff I mentioned before. I personally would like to see Revive be the best of the non-enemy affecting rezs, because it just would make conceptual sense.
TW/Elec Optimization
Maybe make MoG tier 8 and Revive tier 9 change name to "9 lives" cooldown like all godmode powers and duration of 3 mins in those 3 mins its like having 9 health bars no detoggles you just cheated death at the very last moment.
I thought regen had gone down the same path as stalkers and was now practically obsolete, has something happened to make them worth while again. I have a 50 somewhere that quite frankly was fun to 50 and then very weak after the fact.
My regen scrapper is a gold mine he makes tons of influence selling stuff other toons acquire. Just like my stalker.
As for PVP I’ve seen one good regen scrapper in pvp shortly after IO’s were released he was a beast until other toons got IO’ed up then I never saw that toon again.
"if you ever get offered a burger from a clown and its not ronald mcdonald don�t eat it, I learnt that the hard way"
My Regen brute is now 47 and I bought most of his IO build.... I did an ITF on him and got crushed (and what's worse, there was an Invuln tank there making me look like a jackass). The focus was recharge and HP... I know it's not complete, but it looks like he's going to get crushed on all ITF runs simply because:
A) He's a Stone Melee and Romans are particularly resistant to his knockdowns/stuns.
B) Alone, even with made recharge and a higher HP max, Regen just isn't enough to keep him alive when facing anything more difficult than 3 minions.
Sure I can probably solo most regular missions at +4 difficulty... but I love my ITFs. 
I've already spent quite a bit of money getting his IO's... I'm afraid I might have to retool so he can be more ITF friendly... but I just don't have the inf for it right now.
The problem I see in regen doing this is lack of slots. The click heal powers you will want to 5 slot for heal/recharge and the others need some decent slots to work.
It will be also hard doing this with trying to slot powers for regen/+HP bonus like 3 slotting a power like combat jumping with LOTG set for the +HP.
It will be a really tight build and will a good challenge to get the right mix of defense, recharge, + regen/Hp in the build.
I think I would try and shoot for 30-35 S/L defense, grabbing soul mastery to help out, as much recharge as I can (perma Dull Pain is pretty easy) , and as much +HP as I can fit in.
I still think the set is behind I had 2 in Beta and using just IO's I felt very weak.
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