Discussion: The Intrepid Informer: Power Set Proliferation
By
Alef_infinity,
Posted on: 2011-07-06 10:45 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Originally Posted by Computer
That isn't the point though. Whether or not the Cottage rule is in play could have some serious ramifications for other sets.
Come to think of it, the changes to Poison's Poison Trap said in this thread is another example of this. Also, I kinda liked Repulse  |
The cottage rule is not some unbreakable fact of nature - it is, as Arcanaville has pointed out in many threads discussing it, a forum name for a list of guidelines the dev's follow when changing a power. The guidelines are there to keep changes from being so drastic that they force respec's or dissapoint a large number of folks - but they CAN get to that point if the dev team feels the power/power set has enough problems to warrant that level of change. It sounds like they have with repulse in stalker EA.
There will pretty much never be a point at which the "cottage rule" guidelines are thrown out completely - even the change you mentioned to poison trap is not outside the guidelines - the power will still do ALL the things it did before, it just does one of them better now (the hold). Technically, the change to noxious gas could be considered outside the usual "cottage rule" guidelines if it had been made to an already in play set - but since its being made to the newly proliferated corruptor/controller versions then it is not looked at the same way.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Wow, everything about this looks awesome. Gonna have to make a Fire/Fire Defender, just because I play like... any kind of Defender... how will I make time while playing my Time Defender though... hmm...
Also I'll have to try this new Poison, while somehow also making time to respec my Energy/Energy Stalker completely because those changes are too good to ignore.
A tiny bit sad to see no Ice Melee fot Stalkers, but I can be patient and wait for it before I make an Ice Armor Stalker.
Speaking of being patient... with all these awesome underperforming set buffs... will Trick Arrows be seeing any love? If there are, you are morally obligated to tell me of all people! I've been pushing for TA buffs for 6 years now!
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[*]Defender
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Ooh, heal you with FIRE!
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, because I'm not, but changing the Stalker's Repulse to a stun aura, doesn't that break the cottage rule?
otherwise HOT F-KING DAMN! IT'S ABOUT TIME!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Paladin would look mighty fine as a Broadsword Brute.
With trials and other content no longer stressing alternate characters as an end-game, is there any thought given to reexamining the "No" to archtype/powerset rerolling for existing characters?
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I was sitting and thinking about something concerning Repulse -> Disrupt. Is the base purpose of Repulse the KB or is the base purpose of Repulse control? If the latter, this change may be more of a forceful bend than a break. I also wonder if this is a 100% removal of the KB or will some of it remain in a low mag. Mag 1 KB would be pretty disruptive yet would be easier to manage plus it could still be slotted for those who want stronger KB.
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Originally Posted by Computer
Did the Cottage rule get thrown out when Castle left?
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Cottage rule does not apply to fixes. You expect squishies to have area denial or foe juggling powers, not melee characters that need to hit foes in melee range.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, because I'm not, but changing the Stalker's Repulse to a stun aura, doesn't that break the cottage rule?
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Hover scrapping sucks anyway. Easy thing to overlook. Assumed SR numbers are up in the tanker thread on the topic. They'll be over the softcap with SOs and nothing else but Weave.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
I did legitimately forget Maneuvers, but I was under the apparently mistaken impression that Hover and Combat Jumping were mutually exclusive, so I guess I stand corrected.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Thats not what it looks like to me though. |
Originally Posted by EricHough
The cottage rule is not some unbreakable fact of nature - it is, as Arcanaville has pointed out in many threads discussing it, a forum name for a list of guidelines the dev's follow when changing a power. The guidelines are there to keep changes from being so drastic that they force respec's or dissapoint a large number of folks - but they CAN get to that point if the dev team feels the power/power set has enough problems to warrant that level of change. It sounds like they have with repulse in stalker EA.
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I can't remember who said it, but someone once stated a good rule of thumb concerning the Cottage Rule. Basically, it was 'If you changed the power in a way that you could no longer slot the same Invention sets in it, you've gone too far.' Which I thought described the whole 'don't change the core of the power' nicely.
Why couldn't Repulse's magnitude be lowered so it did Knockdown? Why couldn't it be changed to do Knock Up? Without knowing the reason behind the change I don't know, however in this case it seems like there are less drastic changes that could have been made that stayed within the boundaries of how I see the Cottage Rule.
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Originally Posted by EricHough
There will pretty much never be a point at which the "cottage rule" guidelines are thrown out completely - even the change you mentioned to poison trap is not outside the guidelines - the power will still do ALL the things it did before, it just does one of them better now (the hold).
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On the other hand, the way I interpret the situation above means I think the Cottage Rule has been 'thrown out' for Repulse because of the changes to the Knockback of the power.
Either way...Set your sights on Dimension Shift developers!
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
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Hooray "new" powersets 
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I don't get why they said it would never happen... WTH in particular would make Dark Blast less likely than anything else to port? Giving an aoe disorient to blasters? Corruptors have had it for ages... (Be nice if they got the updated version!).
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Originally Posted by starrball
Gotta go with you on this one Bill. I've inquired about this with the devs at a convention a few years ago, and was told that would would probably never happen,
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Dark Pit will be in Dark Manipulation, as per today's U-Stream.
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Originally Posted by Lobster
I don't get why they said it would never happen... WTH in particular would make Dark Blast less likely than anything else to port? Giving an aoe disorient to blasters? Corruptors have had it for ages... (Be nice if they got the updated version!).
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Apparently my hard work on revamping Poison has not gone unnoticed - they are making changes.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
i21 confirmed for issue of the year for all possible years. Broadsword brutes? **** YES. Energy Aura for scrappers being not a piece of ****? **** YES.
poison corruptors/controllers? LOL WUT |
Also, I have to admit Energy Aura for stalkers seems to be pretty decent. It's prone to cascade failure like most defense sets but I don't get all the hate at the moment.
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Which version of Psy blast are Corrs going to get? Blaster? Def? A hybrid?
ZOMG.
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Here is a link to a post where Aracanaville summed up the 'list' of guidelines to which I was refering and where she points out how calling it the 'cottage' rule is incorrect:|
Originally Posted by Computer
Thats not what it looks like to me though.
I can't remember who said it, but someone once stated a good rule of thumb concerning the Cottage Rule. Basically, it was 'If you changed the power in a way that you could no longer slot the same Invention sets in it, you've gone too far.' Which I thought described the whole 'don't change the core of the power' nicely. Why couldn't Repulse's magnitude be lowered so it did Knockdown? Why couldn't it be changed to do Knock Up? Without knowing the reason behind the change I don't know, however in this case it seems like there are less drastic changes that could have been made that stayed within the boundaries of how I see the Cottage Rule. That depends on what you interpret the Cottage Rule to mean. If that term had never been coined, the general idea that Developers would be crazy if they changed a powerset or power completely would still be there (One way to interpret the Cottage Rule) regardless. On the other hand, the way I interpret the situation above means I think the Cottage Rule has been 'thrown out' for Repulse because of the changes to the Knockback of the power. Either way...Set your sights on Dimension Shift developers! |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=113
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Please, PLEASE proliferate Energy Melee to scrappers! I've been waiting seven years for this to happen, and there's no reason not to do so, speaking of low-hanging fruit!
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Hover scrapping sucks anyway.
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I hover on both my EA brute and EA Stalker to wonderful effect.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Dark Control / Dark Assault (since you did the blaster bit) when you do get to those "exciting dominator plans," please. 
I'm somewhat leery of Energy Aura getting a taunt aura - I kind of liked *not* having one on that brute set - but we'll see what it does with the other changes.
And I mentioned elsewhere having one power I could see tossing the cottage rule out for for outright replacement. And yes, that was Repulse for Stalkers. That *never* made sense to me to have - it didn't really fit on a melee AT, IMHO.
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Alright then, I won't call it the cottage rule.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
Here is a link to a post where Aracanaville summed up the 'list' of guidelines to which I was refering and where she points out how calling it the 'cottage' rule is incorrect:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=113 |
My new question: Has the first guideline (from your link) shown by Arcanaville and set-up by Castle been eliminated?
Edit: I should also add to the question: ...or has Repulse been changed because of a "critical balance reason?"
Favorite Hero: Computer (Empathy/Energy Blast Defender)
Favorite Villain: Gimp Computer (Fire Control/Psionic Assault Dominator)
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HEY! That's totally un...no, wait, that is entirely accurate. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something to keep those wacky multi-alt types happy
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Like the looks of this proliferation. Just need to figure what to make first.
But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman!
One man's "meh" is another man's "zomg". - Leatherneck
Procrastination meter coming soon.
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1. Don't think you have to worry about changes to doms. They were underperforming before, then we got the domination change - I don't think they're up for a major change, |
Originally Posted by Zamuel
and the possible precedent set by the Repulse -> Disrupt change.
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2. Repulse -> Disrupt = Fold Space -> Wormhole/Singularity and TK -> Ally Fly to Enemy Hold/Repel. (Though I could argue it's less dramatic of a change - it's still a PBAOE control.)
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Read the link again. no, it's not eliminated. It's pretty basic design. As for why the change... we're probably looking at "worked against the AT and wasn't taken, and just readjustments wouldn't fix it."
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Originally Posted by Computer
Alright then, I won't call it the cottage rule.
My new question: Has the first guideline (from your link) shown by Arcanaville and set-up by Castle been eliminated? Edit: I should also add to the question: ...or has Repulse been changed because of a "critical balance reason?" |
All this sounds awesome, but something that bothers me a little bit is the Noxious/Venomous Gas part. I currently have a Thugs/Poison MM with tier 3 Incarnate stuff, squeezing out every single point of +recharge I can possibly manage, and Noxious Gas still isn't 100% uptime. To give the others a toggle version of it is fine and good, necessary even, but I hope the MM version gets the same treatment. Even if it stays as a pet-targetted power, it would be nice to have ours as a toggle as well.
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