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Almost everything in that paragraph is false or inaccurate. Whoever is telling you this stuff is wrong.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
Now Lost I have no watched but from what I understand (possible spoiler) according to the final episode or whatever the island is Limbo and all the people on the island are on the verge of death. The time travel is not time travel but rather showing the characters what was and what may have been. All the other "sci-fi"-ish elements are explained in other similar ways either as metaphor or some such religious mumbo-jumbo so as far as I can tell from what I know it is not sci-fi AND even if it was I'd view it as very bad sci-fi. |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
No B5
No Blake 7
No SG-1
No Thank You!
Dante's rule of thumb when it comes to Top Ten Lists:
Never trust anything that uses the phrase 'of all time'. It demonstrates a very poor grasp of temporal mechanics. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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except it's not and after a brief read in wikipedia's article it seems that even though the final episode pretty much states what i did exactly the creators deny that that is what happened and every other interpretation people have put forth. Therefor more than likely it is what happened and the creative team simply are being mysterious to try to get people to have continued interest in a series that claims to be more clever than they actually are.|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Almost everything in that paragraph is false or inaccurate. Whoever is telling you this stuff is wrong.
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Also the reason I haven't watched it is because the few clips i have seen of it simply bored me out of mind and was completely uninteresting. My lack of enthusiasm for the show also increased with the ******** mysteries that fans like and the constant annoyance of people bringing it up. The show is obviously full of plot holes that have no real explanation and are just there to make you think they are important and make you watch the show to get the answer which never came which most intelligent people predicted long long long before the final season so yeah... i stand by Lost being garbage and not Sci-Fi
Maybe you should watch something before you become the expert. The time travel DID happen on the show. Was there mysticism as well, sure. But saying there is no science fiction or it's elements on the show is false.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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time travel does not make a show science fiction.|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Maybe you should watch something before you become the expert. The time travel DID happen on the show. Was there mysticism as well, sure. But saying there is no science fiction or it's elements on the show is false.
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Also, stating that something didn't happen in a show even though a number of sources say that is exactly what happened is a bit dishonest.
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There are plenty of science fiction elements outside of the time travel. The Dharma Initiative and its studies alone is science fiction.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
time travel does not make a show science fiction.
Also, stating that something didn't happen in a show even though a number of sources say that is exactly what happened is a bit dishonest. |
Time travel happened several times on the show. Your lack of any knowledge of the show is showing through on your lack of perspective and misunderstanding of what actually happened on the show.
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Originally Posted by wiki
Physical travel of both time and space
Confirmed non-human cases On the two-way radio, Sayid and Hurley picked up a radio broadcast from the 1940s that played "Moonlight Serenade" by the Glenn Miller Orchestra. ("The Long Con") ("Lost: A Journey in Time") When Sayid, Frank and Desmond leave the Island in "The Constant", they and those on the island experience events in a different sequence, implying electromagnetic signals and a corpse travel through time. On the island, the Losties pull the body of the ship's doctor out of the water one morning. That evening, they contact the freighter by Morse code. On the freighter, Omar receives the Morse code message during the day, but the doctor's throat was slit at night and was thrown off the freighter at night. In the Orchid orientation film, Dr. Edgar Halliwax talked of a how the Island's properties allow the DHARMA Initiative "to conduct unique experiments of both space and time". He placed rabbit number 15 inside a device he called the "vault", which was constructed adjacent to "negatively charged exotic matter". He explained how the rabbit would travel 100ms ahead of four dimensional spacetime - three consisting of space and one of time. ("There's No Place Like Home, Part 2") Another example was when Ben successfully moved the island. He accomplished this by placing metallic objects inside a chamber in the Orchid, something the orientation film had warned against, and blowing a hole through the wall of the chamber. This allowed him to access the frozen wheel. ("There's No Place Like Home, Part 2") Confirmed human cases Ben turned the frozen wheel to move the Island, and time traveled 10 months into his future. ("There's No Place Like Home, Part 2") When Ben turned the frozen wheel December 31, 2004, ("There's No Place Like Home, Part 2") he found himself in the Sahara Desert 10 months later on October 24, 2005. ("The Shape of Things to Come") The result of the wheel being turned was that the survivors remaining on the Island randomly traveled through time until Locke put the wheel back on its axis, as he too flashed to the exit in the Sahara Desert; in his case, emerging three years later in 2007. ("The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham") When the survivors left behind after Ben's wheel turning experienced a time travel change, there was a blinding purple flash (similar to when the Hatch imploded). After Locke fixed the wheel, there was one last flash, but this time the flash was bright white, rather than purple. In all instances, the travelers experienced severe head pain, most likely caused by the extremely loud noise occurring during the flashes. People who weren't affected by the time travel appeared to be unaware of the blinding flash and loud noise. For example, Danielle didn't react to or mention the noise or light before Jin disappeared, and when he reappeared in her future, she thought Jin was sick because he disappeared ("This Place Is Death"). Ethan also did not react to the noise or light when it began, but kept the gun aimed level at Locke, and said "Goodbye, John Locke" ("Because You Left"). Desmond may have been the sole exception, as he appeared to react to both the noise and flash moments before Daniel disappeared in front of him. ("Because You Left") |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I don't deny that it's Sci Fi. I deny that it's good science fiction. Since it's central sci fi element is time travel and the mystery island, there are numerous shows that handle time and dimension travel better and more entertainingly.|
Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
Ignoring the list itself and whether people believe it should be on this list at all, I'm utterly baffled how Lost is being denied as Science Fiction status from various people (not to mention those who haven't actually seen it O.o
 )Seriously. Baffled. |
Good drama, good mystery, good characters, sure. But the sci fi elements always fell flat on Lost, especially compared to other shows dealing with time travel.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Nothing of what you posted is science fiction.|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
There are plenty of science fiction elements outside of the time travel. The Dharma Initiative and its studies alone is science fiction.
Time travel happened several times on the show. Your lack of any knowledge of the show is showing through on your lack of perspective and misunderstanding of what actually happened on the show. This is but a very small portion of time travel in Lost. An entire season was devoted to members of the cast going to the 70s...not some new agey "what if...." storyline. |
Dharma is a hindu word that is related to religious beliefs while the time travel events you are talking about are more akin to magic items than technological devices
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Again you don't know because you didn't watch. Dharma Initiative was a hippy organization doing scientific experiments on the islands electromagnetic properties.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Nothing of what you posted is science fiction.
Dharma is a hindu word that is related to religious beliefs while the time travel events you are talking about are more akin to magic items than technological devices |
Desmond had his conciousness travel through time due to a scientific experiment.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
I'll just leave this here.
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I might as well put this one up as well.|
Originally Posted by Google search - Define Science Fiction
sci·ence fic·tion
Noun: Fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets. |
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Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
science fiction
noun a form of fiction that draws imaginatively on scientific knowledge and speculation in its plot, setting, theme, etc. |
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Just because something has time travel in it does not make it science fiction. Unless you are going to argue Kate and Leopold is Science Fiction and A Kid in King Arthur's Court is as well. |
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
I'll just leave this here.
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The both have Time travel in them and Kate and Leopold's is scientific but it is at best science fantasy and A kid in king Arthur's court is fantasy.
Mental Maiden, saying scientific research is being done also doesn't make it sci-fi. One of the major things in Sci-Fi is to give reason as to why and how this fantastical thing occured.
let's take Stargate... this is science fiction. leave out that the gate way works via wormholes and it becomes science fantasy.
At best... very thing you describe about Lost is Science Fantasy.
Basically the difference between Science Fantasy and Science Fiction is that Science Fiction explains things and stuff is technology based where as Science Fantasy doesn't explain anything, but says it is technology based.
This is also the case with Star Wars... It is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction.
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ARG! Stupid forums ate my last reply. I'll try and recap.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Just because something has time travel in it does not make it science fiction. Unless you are going to argue Kate and Leopold is Science Fiction and A Kid in King Arthur's Court is as well.
The both have Time travel in them and Kate and Leopold's is scientific but it is at best science fantasy and A kid in king Arthur's court is fantasy. Mental Maiden, saying scientific research is being done also doesn't make it sci-fi. One of the major things in Sci-Fi is to give reason as to why and how this fantastical thing occured. let's take Stargate... this is science fiction. leave out that the gate way works via wormholes and it becomes science fantasy. At best... very thing you describe about Lost is Science Fantasy. Basically the difference between Science Fantasy and Science Fiction is that Science Fiction explains things and stuff is technology based where as Science Fantasy doesn't explain anything, but says it is technology based. This is also the case with Star Wars... It is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction. |
My point about Dharma was that it wasn't a religious or mystical group as you implied. Yes the word Dharma comes from religion, but it was actually a play on words and stood for Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications and was very much a science based group of researchers with a hippy bent, thus the use of Dharma. And their experiments did delve into science fiction themes.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Though anime can indeed be called Sci-Fi and I greatly enjoy anime, I feel that anime should have it's own list. However if such shows from Japan are going to be included then the entire Ultraman franchise (except for Ultraman Powered..ugh..) must be included as well.
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Not themes. Explanations...|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
ARG! Stupid forums ate my last reply. I'll try and recap.
My point about Dharma was that it wasn't a religious or mystical group as you implied. Yes the word Dharma comes from religion, but it was actually a play on words and stood for Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications and was very much a science based group of researchers with a hippy bent, thus the use of Dharma. And their experiments did delve into science fiction themes. |
For example in I know that in Star Trek warp travel allows FTL by compressing space in front of a bubble and expanding it in back of the bubble causing space to bend and the ship to "fall" through space
Or in Slider a slide is done by opening a bridge between universes by grabbing a micro wormhole and expanding it, stabilizing it, and making it visible to humans so that they can then "slide" through it.
Or in EvE Online a ships fly at FTL speeds by creating a field of 0 inertia around their ship
Or in Mass Effect a ship is able to reach FTL speeds by lowering it's mass
You could go on and on about how things works in these series. This is Science Fiction.
What you are describing is that they are saying it's done by science but don't actually explain how it works. This is Science Fantasy.
My own idea for Top 10 list:
1. Star Trek (the entire franchise)
2. Dr. Who
3. Blake's 7
4. Babylon 5
5. Red Dwarf
6. Battlestar Galactica (original and new, minus Galactica 1980)
7. original V miniseries and sequel miniseries (Tv series itself is optional)
8. Six Million Dollar man
9. Incredible Hulk (minus the 3 TV movies) included for the Jeckyl-Hyde dynamic and for some of the issues the show touched on.
10. Firefly/Serenity.
The 'Is Lost Sci-Fi or not?' debate completely misses the fact that the show sucked hard.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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It's weird that anyone would argue a show that was nominated for 48 Saturn Awards and won 13 was either not science fiction or "sucked hard".
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Originally Posted by Starflier
The 'Is Lost Sci-Fi or not?' debate completely misses the fact that the show sucked hard.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
Only if you consider America. Doctor Who has had a much bigger impact in Britain than Star Trek.
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ummmm, then you would only be considering the UK, where as Star Trek has a MUCH bigger following world wide. i personally prefer the Doctor, but if we're going to pick nits, then lets pick them right.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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There are simply other shows that had a bigger impact on shaping what we know as Sci-Fi. Impacts that spanned generations. Lost isn't one of those shows. |
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
May I ask why you feel this way? Personally, I feel that Lost was one of the better written shows out there, let alone one of the better written *Scifi* shows. Their character development alone absolutely destroys half of the shows on your list.
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| Granted... most of the shows you listed are good, some even great. But that's how good Lost was. I highly recommend you watch the show before you spew forth more opinions about it. |
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| Also, thank you for this. You made me laugh pretty damn hard. |
The person that posted that list made no mention of the criteria that was used to decide what shows made his list.
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Fair enough. A solid argument. While I believe that... impact a show had on it's watchers|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
There are simply other shows that had a bigger impact on shaping what we know as Sci-Fi. Impacts that spanned generations. Lost isn't one of those shows.
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is an important measurement by which to judge a program.. I don't feel it should be the only factor. I don't believe nostalgia should play that important of a role. Because people can be impacted by a show... who's quality was actually rather poor at the time.
Otherwise... the original BSG would be getting much more credit than the new adaptation of it.
*edit* Might I also add that... while it may not have had 30 years to influence it's viewers... it did make quite an impact. I've seen pages and pages of text filled with nothing but theory's as to the mysteries happening on that island. People didn't just watch the show, they obsessed over it.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Couldn't watch it. Every single time I tried I was asleep before the first commercial. That's how boring the show was to me. Had the same problem with Heroes, 4400,
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The person that posted that list made no mention of the criteria that was used to decide what shows made his list.
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Having not seen the show, and only rarely hearing of it, I'm curious as to why The Prisoner is on the list.
Is the list composed of shows that fundamentally changed how other shows were produced? or composed of shows that dramatically impacted pop culture? Clearly Dr. Who and the Star Trek franchise fall into both categories.
I agree with other assessments that Star Gate: SG-1, and Six Million Dollar Man (with 1970s Bionic Woman) should be considered for the list. Babylon 5 is one of my all-time favorites, but it didn't really make deep waves in the pop-culture scene.
Probably because CCTV surveillance wasn't widespread yet in the UK when The Prisoner first ran.
Then there's "Rover", a bubble like sentry that rises from the ocean and captures those trying to escape.
The high tech infrastructure that's hidden under the guise of a low tech town.
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Let me correct one thing here. I'm not referring to nostalgia. What I'm talking about is how certain shows broke the mold and set the stage for what future shows tried to imitate and improve upon. They're Iconic.|
Originally Posted by Rock_Crag
Fair enough. A solid argument. While I believe that... impact a show had on it's watchers
is an important measurement by which to judge a program.. I don't feel it should be the only factor. I don't believe nostalgia should play that important of a role. Because people can be impacted by a show... who's quality was actually rather poor at the time. Otherwise... the original BSG would be getting much more credit than the new adaptation of it. |
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| *edit* Might I also add that... while it may not have had 30 years to influence it's viewers... it did make quite an impact. I've seen pages and pages of text filled with nothing but theory's as to the mysteries happening on that island. People didn't just watch the show, they obsessed over it. |
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| Wow, I thought 4400 was really entertaining. And Heroes... well... it had it's ups and downs, that's all I'll say about it here. |
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| Agreed. A list with no explanations for their choices is not a very good list at all. |
Oh and I just got a copy of Space Battleship Yamato 2010 and it's GORRAM AWESOME!
I can't understand a word of it cuz my copy is in Japanese but it's FRELLING AMAZING to watch!
I eagerly await my chance to get a copy in English or at least with subtitles.
If we are adding Gundam, then I suggest we add Voltron as well.