Captain America & Superman
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-06-28 07:59 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Or they could just learn to write Superman better?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
As I was reading through Ultimate Spider-Man it struck me that Captain America used to be the face of Marvel at some point. He used to be their go to man and even now, in canon, he's still considered an authoritative figure to some degree, but for the most part he has taken a back seat because Spider-Man came into his own and was allowed to flourish...
On the other hand we have Superman and I seem to see many people saying he is stale and boring. And not only is he stale and boring DC continuously tries to right him into the present and tried to make him the center piece of their universe when he just isn't... and this has caused, in my opinion, the lose of allowing other younger creations to flourish and become big stars and get DC the money they want... Do you think that DC should take a page from Marvel and have Superman take a more Captain America-esque role, and maybe even have Batman take a more Nick Fury role? and try to let those character that have potential shine? |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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I agree, getting better writers and ideas for Superman is the way to go. Let's hope that is exactly what happens in the new DC comic books in September.
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Uh, Spider Man has been the flagship character for Marvel pretty much since his creation. Cap is a bigger figure to the characters inside the Marvel Universe, but Spidey has never been second rank to him as far as the "face of Marvel."
@Quasadu
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Originally Posted by Durakken
On the other hand we have Superman and I seem to see many people saying he is stale and boring. And not only is he stale and boring DC continuously tries to right him into the present and tried to make him the center piece of their universe when he just isn't...
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I disagree with this and do agree with the notion that better writers are needed. Superman is central to the DC universe. If anything, I find they don't always give him the respect he should have as the hero most adored by the public. He is the greatest DC hero, but isn't always portrayed as such.
I always loved Superman and Spiderman as flip sides of the same coin. The public loves and trusts Superman and fears and distrusts Spidey. I see appeal in both of those portrayals. If my life were in danger, though, as much as I love my other heroes, I would want Superman to be the one saving me.
Est sularis oth Mithas
Didn't Supes and Cap have a lovechild and name him Statesman?
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i heard he was a total d-bag... got the worst qualities of both of them ^.^
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Originally Posted by Inazuma
Didn't Supes and Cap have a lovechild and name him Statesman?
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Yeah, since the Silver Age began, Spider Man has been the flagship Marvel character. You can see it just in the number of books published. Captain America has had one title to his name, while Spidey has had multiple titles. Captain America didn't even appear till a few years into the Silver Age, when they found him frozen. |
Originally Posted by Quasadu
Uh, Spider Man has been the flagship character for Marvel pretty much since his creation. Cap is a bigger figure to the characters inside the Marvel Universe, but Spidey has never been second rank to him as far as the "face of Marvel."
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On the DC side Superman has had multiple titles for a very long time. Their only other character with such treatment is Batman.
Too many alts to list.
Forget titles. Count the number of reboots.
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I'm not really sure how relevant that is, or even how you'd do it. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Forget titles. Count the number of reboots.
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A flagship character will be featured in more books. That's simple common sense.
Too many alts to list.
I'm saying that Captain America had his run. Then when the new set of heroes came along they brought him back but they didn't focus on him as the flagship.
Where as Superman has clearly had his run and instead of letting him become the respected character he should be in the background and focus on other characters they continuously cut other characters' wings who could really be the next big thing and instead try to "rejuvinate" the man of steel by making him younger, less relevant, and toss everything people actually care about him.
Also I wouldn't consider him the flagship of DC. That would be Batman. He's more interesting and just about everything in the DCU revolves around him in someway...and he has more books which feature him. Also because there can be only one flagship.
I'm not saying, put him out to pasture, but why not put him in a role more akin to Captain America which would make the character fresher and in some ways more relevant to both the real world and the comic world.
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When, pray tell was this run? I suppose maybe in the 40s he might have been their main character, but not since the Silver Age.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm saying that Captain America had his run. Then when the new set of heroes came along they brought him back but they didn't focus on him as the flagship.
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Too many alts to list.
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Yes back then he was their star character.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
When, pray tell was this run? I suppose maybe in the 40s he might have been their main character, but not since the Silver Age.
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In JLA Avengers, Superman is actually angered by the fact that heroes can be mistrusted......even the treatment Batman received in the past did not compare to what Marvel heroes have to go through. |
Originally Posted by Arnabas
The public loves and trusts Superman and fears and distrusts Spidey. |
It's an interesting discussion at times if you do not include real life analogies (though if you did, people in real life act like the Marvel populace) In Superman's eyes, the Marvel heroes failed in inspire the populace. In Captain America's eyes however, the DC heroes parade around like demigods.
EDIT: Sorry for the picture being so large for those of you not on widescreen monitors.
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This is true, and it's one of the reasons I adore JLA/Avengers (or Avengers/JLA) so. Thing is, no matter the differences between the two universes, their heroes are still heroes. Superman and the JLA never demanded the praise and admiration they recieve, they earned it through their actions. Meanwhile, the Avengers and other Marvel heroes soldier on in spite of the public's more fickle attitude toward their efforts, which is what makes them heroic; continuing to do what they do with no expectation of recognition or reward.
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Originally Posted by Nightphall
In JLA Avengers, Superman is actually angered by the fact that heroes can be mistrusted......even the treatment Batman received in the past did not compare to what Marvel heroes have to go through.
[snip] It's an interesting discussion at times if you do not include real life analogies (though if you did, people in real life act like the Marvel populace) In Superman's eyes, the Marvel heroes failed in inspire the populace. In Captain America's eyes however, the DC heroes parade around like demigods. |
There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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I'm not too big on Marvel, but my take is that most of the heroes don't deserve praise...|
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
This is true, and it's one of the reasons I adore JLA/Avengers (or Avengers/JLA) so. Thing is, no matter the differences between the two universes, their heroes are still heroes. Superman and the JLA never demanded the praise and admiration they recieve, they earned it through their actions. Meanwhile, the Avengers and other Marvel heroes soldier on in spite of the public's more fickle attitude toward their efforts, which is what makes them heroic; continuing to do what they do with no expectation of recognition or reward.
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Captain America isn't really a hero and is more of a d-bag than anything from what I have read (which is very little mind you)
Tony Stark is a arms dealer and a drunk chauvinist.
Thor should be the one above, but is aloof and doesn't really care too much about being a hero
Bruce Banner is a whiney idiot that Trashes the world as much or more than super villains.
Xavier can be seen as training an army of super powered people
The Fantastic Four unleash chaos on the world in various forms due to Reed messing with stuff.
The only real example of a hero they have that I've seen is Spider-Man and those affiliated directly with him.
Of course, the civilians themselves are fairly d-baggy themselves with cops pulling guns and shooting at people who are clearly not a threat, people accusing heroes of being in league with villains, and various other crap...
Seems to me that the civilians get the heroes they deserve in the Marvel universe, at least the Ultimate Marvel Universe
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Geoff Johns recent run on Action Comics was amazing. he should jusr write everything :P
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Or they could just learn to write Superman better?
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Superman is one of my favorite reads, and he is relevant to me. Thankfully Dc doesn't seem interested in ending his run, or Batman's (even though he's been elevated to ridiculous heights for a non-powered person), while Marvel will keep giving me Cap and Spidey.
MisterPiggins!
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Spidey was always the face of Marvel. Before he came around, Marvel didn't really have a "face". I mean, look at all the Marvel logos on their comics over the years, almost all of them are a face of Spidey.
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Funny, didn't I just read some posts about the nature of the character being made better by those who wrote them....? Food for thought, I think.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
i heard he was a total d-bag... got the worst qualities of both of them ^.^
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S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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again, quality of writing is key, bring in hickman to see him done right |
Originally Posted by Durakken
i heard he was a total d-bag... got the worst qualities of both of them ^.^
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I never got that impression with Captain America. But like you, I don't read him often (Spider-Man and X-titles tend to be my favorite titles).|
Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm not too big on Marvel, but my take is that most of the heroes don't deserve praise...
Captain America isn't really a hero and is more of a d-bag than anything from what I have read (which is very little mind you) Tony Stark is a arms dealer and a drunk chauvinist. Thor should be the one above, but is aloof and doesn't really care too much about being a hero Bruce Banner is a whiney idiot that Trashes the world as much or more than super villains. Xavier can be seen as training an army of super powered people The Fantastic Four unleash chaos on the world in various forms due to Reed messing with stuff. The only real example of a hero they have that I've seen is Spider-Man and those affiliated directly with him. Of course, the civilians themselves are fairly d-baggy themselves with cops pulling guns and shooting at people who are clearly not a threat, people accusing heroes of being in league with villains, and various other crap... Seems to me that the civilians get the heroes they deserve in the Marvel universe, at least the Ultimate Marvel Universe |
Hulk I never saw as a real hero per se. He can it's not really what he is. This also depends on what's going on with him at the time. Full time Hulk with Banner in control he seemed to be a bit more the hero type.
FF tend to be heroes, but at the same time, it's not their focus per se. Same with the X-Men.
In fact, I'd love an X-team that actually had more of a hero theme. Put on the spandex, and acted like a team of heroes much like Spidey.
And that's probably the biggest difference between Marvel and DC. Most of DC style heroes are the type to patrol the city.
Marvel's is less likely to do such a thing. More likely to be sent out on a job, or off doing something and answering the call when something big happens.
Of course there are exceptions to this rule on both sides, but DC seems to be the most likely heroes to for instance to stop a bank robbery in progress than Marvel heroes.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Ultimate Captain America is a Jerk. He has few redeeming qualities. 616 Captain America, when written well, is the acme of heroism, and a pretty awesome guy to hang out with.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Captain America isn't really a hero and is more of a d-bag than anything from what I have read (which is very little mind you)
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| Tony Stark is a arms dealer and a drunk chauvinist. |
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| Thor should be the one above, but is aloof and doesn't really care too much about being a hero |
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| Bruce Banner is a whiney idiot that Trashes the world as much or more than super villains. |
I'm just going to stop there.
Ah, the internet, where people can share their opinions on things they have no information about.
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And despite it all, they manage to save the world just as often as anyone in DC.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I'm not too big on Marvel, but my take is that most of the heroes don't deserve praise...
Captain America isn't really a hero and is more of a d-bag than anything from what I have read (which is very little mind you) Tony Stark is a arms dealer and a drunk chauvinist. Thor should be the one above, but is aloof and doesn't really care too much about being a hero Bruce Banner is a whiney idiot that Trashes the world as much or more than super villains. Xavier can be seen as training an army of super powered people The Fantastic Four unleash chaos on the world in various forms due to Reed messing with stuff. The only real example of a hero they have that I've seen is Spider-Man and those affiliated directly with him. Of course, the civilians themselves are fairly d-baggy themselves with cops pulling guns and shooting at people who are clearly not a threat, people accusing heroes of being in league with villains, and various other crap... Seems to me that the civilians get the heroes they deserve in the Marvel universe, at least the Ultimate Marvel Universe |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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He'd actually be love child #2 for them. Their first was the Amalgam Comics creation Super-Soldier.
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Originally Posted by Inazuma
Didn't Supes and Cap have a lovechild and name him Statesman?
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As I was reading through Ultimate Spider-Man it struck me that Captain America used to be the face of Marvel at some point. He used to be their go to man and even now, in canon, he's still considered an authoritative figure to some degree, but for the most part he has taken a back seat because Spider-Man came into his own and was allowed to flourish...
On the other hand we have Superman and I seem to see many people saying he is stale and boring. And not only is he stale and boring DC continuously tries to right him into the present and tried to make him the center piece of their universe when he just isn't... and this has caused, in my opinion, the lose of allowing other younger creations to flourish and become big stars and get DC the money they want...
Do you think that DC should take a page from Marvel and have Superman take a more Captain America-esque role, and maybe even have Batman take a more Nick Fury role? and try to let those character that have potential shine?