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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
These were not formally announced, they were hinted at on a Massively.com article and then mentioned on the Ustream chat as not being part of i21.
They will, supposedly, be a new powerset. If they make it out of testing. |
I didn't say when they were coming out, just that they were confirmed. That's not the point at all though, the point is that they are obviously spending time designing brand new powersets before looking at the broken ones.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
"Premise" is a word that basically means foundation. So, for what I was responding to, neither Dominators or Kheldians have a flawed foundation. Dominators did not have their entire foundation changed with their revamp, they had their "Domination or nothing" aspect adjusted, so Domination is still nice, but it's not the whole basis by which they have to exist. Their premise is still the same, with the ability to crowd control and do some damage, with their Primary being accentuated by their Inherent power, Domination.
Kheldians have had their premise clouded like Domination: special enemies that do special damage, having their damage be down when they are solo, etc. Those things have been mostly peeled away, but not entirely. As you pointed out, the time shapeshifting takes inhibits things for the premise of Kheldians still, among other things. But I am not saying they don't need changes, they do. I'm just going to resist anyone saying Kheldians have a flawed premise, because they don't. They have a fun concept behind them (or since some get hung up on the term "fun," the concept is one that can be effective), and there is further adjusting needed to making it happen. People have been pretty united in the idea of their needing an adjustment, so I don't think anything is holding back the developers there. People tend to paint pictures overly dark, and I rather hate that. So that's why I jumped on the "flawed premise" statement. There aren't any broken ATs in CoH... you can do well with any AT out there. Some still need adjusting to get more in line with the others, however, probably Kheldians and Stalkers, mostly. |
yeah i agree with this.. people are calling for a whole revamp.. but we really dont need that...
I and a couple of others pvp every night with peacebringers.. yes peacebringers.. and have many solo and team kills.. its even crazier when a team of peacebringers is stalking the zone.. Albeit that all of our pb's are io'd to the brim but with a lil love the AT is gleaming... And alot of people like how pb's play in pve..
Its not a overhaul we need its just fine tuning, and fixing.. WS are pretty much ok..
just shorten animation of the shifting time.
and suppress toggles not detoggle them while switching.
raise their mez components and make their inherent more useable while solo and boom bamm their fixed..
pb's i think needs
1. Inherent fix so its useable while solo.
2. Photon seekers fix so. preferable changed to a targeted aoe. or has mm controls so it can home in on desired target and shorten the recharge time.
3.Get rid of group fly, and give us something with tohit buff or maybe a mez resist/ resistance debuff protection... auto or toggle.. or rechargeable is fine..
4. Give light form Def shorten the duration to 30sec.. shorten the recharge to 120sec enhanceable. keep the animation, i like my light ball...
5.Raise the dmg modifier so we do a little more dmg.
6. Shorten the time it takes to switch to form, and make it so its un inturuptable
7. Last but not least suppress the toggles while in form instead of shutting them off.. i think the biggest prob why people would rather stay away from farms is the shifting time, and having to retoggle them when going back to human.. on my pb personally i have 9 toggles to re apply in a hot pvp zone.. that the main reason i dropped back to all human build.. that heal in dwarf is not that great if you cant escape or fight after you change.
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
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really? I would have that that this would have counted as an announcement
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
These were not formally announced, they were hinted at on a Massively.com article and then mentioned on the Ustream chat as not being part of i21.
They will, supposedly, be a new powerset. If they make it out of testing. |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Another thing I forgot to mention here, is that White and Black Dwarf both need a taunt aura.
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I'd be fine with the taunt for Dwarves being auto hit, at least in PvE. That, minus an aura is fine by me, since you don't want them to overlap with what Tanks can do. With the limit of four attacks it might still be okay, but I don't think it's need.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Another thing I forgot to mention here, is that White and Black Dwarf both need a taunt aura.
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The no accuracy check for the taunt is needed, though: it's hard to tank for a team when your to-hit is floored, or you're facing some higher level mobs. I was extremely dismayed when facing Nosferatu on my PB... he kep turning to hit the squishies since I couldn't hit him at all.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I'd be fine with the taunt for Dwarves being auto hit, at least in PvE. That, minus an aura is fine by me, since you don't want them to overlap with what Tanks can do. With the limit of four attacks it might still be okay, but I don't think it's need.
The no accuracy check for the taunt is needed, though: it's hard to tank for a team when your to-hit is floored, or you're facing some higher level mobs. I was extremely dismayed when facing Nosferatu on my PB... he kep turning to hit the squishies since I couldn't hit him at all. |
Honestly on my Warshade, I wish all of his attacks, even nova blasts, had auto taunt in them. I have some friends I like to play with on regular mission teams from time to time and I feel like I can't bring my Warshade because whenever I do it turns into me killing everything while everyone else is dead... Basically without a taunt aura, we have to turn the difficulty down, which makes playing my warshade much less fun so I end up switching to something else. I shift forms so fast that it would slow me down a lot to have to keep firing off Dwarf taunt. If for example every time I hit dwarf mire it taunted everything it hit, though, that would be fantastic.
LOLKHELDS wanting fixes.
Too soon?
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Originally Posted by Crab Nebula
LOLKHELDS wanting fixes.
Too soon? |
[lol]You know you ain't right.... don't ya?[/lol]
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
With Warshades, you do get to a point where your character is solid and fun. But with PB, you just never come out with a character that's ever going to shine. It needs fundamental changes. If shapeshifting is the name of the game, then we need to make that conversion something that plays well with the game.
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"My life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely pretty and well preserved, but rather I will skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...WOW...What a Ride"
Funny thing is it only feels like a little while ago that Khelds got the ability to use Dark sustenance/Cosmic Balance in forms and have Stamina/Swift carry over. And I still sometimes forget how quickly the dwarf mire recharges now.
They have been a lot of Kheld improvements, I remember what Warshades were the lame duck and PB's we the only Kheld worth trying, then it flip-flopped.
I think that PB's could do with another pass, but I really don't feel that we've been "Ignored"
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A lot of that was in Issue 13, back in December of 2008.|
Originally Posted by Serva_Obscura
Funny thing is it only feels like a little while ago that Khelds got the ability to use Dark sustenance/Cosmic Balance in forms and have Stamina/Swift carry over. And I still sometimes forget how quickly the dwarf mire recharges now.
They have been a lot of Kheld improvements, I remember what Warshades were the lame duck and PB's we the only Kheld worth trying, then it flip-flopped. I think that PB's could do with another pass, but I really don't feel that we've been "Ignored" |
Three years is a fairly long time, especially considering the games only seven years old. Took four years to get the first pass, ill feel better if it doesn't take another four for the next one...
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I'm the other way around; I prefer WS to PB. But for another more personal reason. I'm VERY sensitive to sounds of a certain frequency, and PBs make those kinds of noise ALL THE FREAKING TIME. It's like trying to play with a five-year-old on either side of you going "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" right in each ear.
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Originally Posted by Mr_NoBody
True... I loved my WS before I left the game, I returned 4 years later and rolled a PB. I have to admit I'm having more fun with my PB now then I did with my WS. I guess it's just a matter of perspective.
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My PB is a lvl 50 Incarnate. I agree that the AT needs developer attention. Playing a similar (multi-form wise) class in a different game, I was amazed at how quickly they changed form in combat situations. It felt like, I don't know, I was a shapechanger. I did most of my leveling as a human built because of the time it takes to change forms. Yes I can self rez but I rather not have to do it because it takes "forever" to change forms. My second highest character is a SOA. He has the flexibility and diversity that I love with my PB but he is a more "balanced" At. The attacks and defenses flow together. I feel hamstrung as a PB. The powers are cool. It is the love and coolness of the AT that strengthened me to survive until 50 and sometimes instead of feeling super with my Incarnate abilities, I feel relieved that I've covered several of my Achilles Heels.
I love the idea of having an arch nemesis: Void Hunters and the like. I would love to see them in upcoming solo Incarnate storylines using old PB contacts. (Please, Please and one more time - Pretty please)
It's been said that money talks. Players will be asked to pay to play PBs. This AT in its current state will have many new players requesting refunds. Hey developers, let us test the new PBs before Freedom launches. Right now you have a bunch of people who love this AT in spite of its weaknesses and shortcomings. If you want new people to invest their money for a PB relationship, the AT needs at least some new suits and a hair cut.
Oh didn't you get the memo? Kheldians will soon be discontinued because having two epic ATs might be too confusing to new free players and VIPs. Also body snatching aliens are bad, mkay? From now on you will all get to play prancing fuzzy little bears with rainbow flight and cotton candy fur instead! It's just more friendly this way.
Seriously though, they will probably do something lame like moving Shadowstar to Atlas which just feels wrong.
Update- Another two powersets scheduled to be released... That even subscribers will have to pay for (?!?! that's another story..)
The bottom line is that new sets that aren't even in the game yet are being discussed/addressed by the Dev's while Kheldians continue to get the short end of it.
Yep...all this GREAT NEW STUFF and we get ignored...Status quo maintained.
We really should be more proactive on this. We'll get called whiners a lot, I mean...how dare we not be pleased as punch with our AT. Hell, Im half willing to bet Sunstorm and Shadowstar just vanish...Shadowstar cause Galaxy got rocked, and Sunstorm cause "Wait khelds have contacts?". Then theres the new fifth power in the travel pools, of which we're locked out of flight and teleport, so no afterburner or long range port for us...and Im sure not expecting a "Buffing of the Kheldian" IO set to be "ready" when all the other AT's get their new IO sets that folks were talking about...
By this point, if they actually had stuff for us they'd have told us...we'd be the most ecstatic bunch in the game, the devs could do no wrong because holy crap they actually DID something for Khelds for a change...something that didn't require us reminding them that we'd be broke if they didnt, or that we actually exist and someone plays the AT's still...Im angry...Im sick of being left out in the cold and told "When we have time, when we have time", while they just go off and keep making new stuff instead of balancing the crap they put in the game years ago. Im sick of the same old run around that we get every single patch. The same old run around thats just there to shut us up...
Pardon my soap box ranting there, but I really am frustrated over all this...I like the devs, I like the game, and I am excited for the new stuff coming; but I've been waiting for a long LOOOOOOONG time for them to finally sit down and look at the AT of my main...who is my main in SPITE of the fact that he's a PB, not because of it.
So what can we do? Im open to suggestions, because its pretty obvious being quiet and talking amongst ourselves with the occasional politely put forth question hasnt worked. How do we draw attention, how do we get them to stand up and take notice and DO something? Its gonna have to be organized whatever it is, and we need to do it right, not just storming about with torches and pitchforks, because that just gets the whining label thrown around and being ignored. Internet petitions never work...speaking with our wallets wont work because we really aren't that big a portion of the player base, they'd never notice us. I really don't know, I just know I want to do something to get them to do something in return...
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Do we know this for sure? It is possible that Khelds could either get their own version, or the devs are finally planning to open up the Flight and Teleport pools to both Khelds.|
Originally Posted by Zenyth
Then theres the new fifth power in the travel pools, of which we're locked out of flight and teleport, so no afterburner or long range port for us...
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Personally, I'd rather have our own version. I like my WS' TP. I would like the long range to look the same.
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
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Originally Posted by Ossuary
Do we know this for sure? It is possible that Khelds could either get their own version, or the devs are finally planning to open up the Flight and Teleport pools to both Khelds.
Personally, I'd rather have our own version. I like my WS' TP. I would like the long range to look the same. |
First of all, the one I'm REALLY stoked for is the instant recharge option from the speed pool...
Every now and then, my Warshade dies. Even less often, he's mid-Eclipse when that happens- Either due to lots of debuffs, overwhelming -end, or plain old human error...
Now, my stygian return is up WAY more then I use it... That means I can pretty easily rez myself whenever I want. I only need to when I somehow bite off more than I can chew (heh...)
With this new addition, it means that whenever these rarest of circumstances occur, not only can I get up, be invincible and phase if I need to... But I can ALSO instantly recharge eclipse. My mires and nuke will instantly recharge too for good measure.
But,anyways...
I think PB's and WS's should get access to the new "uber" power for each set respectively.... Mostly I would like my PB to be able to zone teleport, but don't forget that the Dark Nova could become a viable travel power with the new flight speed boost if it's allowed.
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For a WS, might work to add a taunt component to Sunless Mire, with a duration equal to the other effects. Gives some aggro management, without overshadowing Tankers.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Another thing I forgot to mention here, is that White and Black Dwarf both need a taunt aura.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
For a WS, might work to add a taunt component to Sunless Mire, with a duration equal to the other effects. Gives some aggro management, without overshadowing Tankers.
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Meh, the Dwarf forms need it most... Of course, my Warshade is capable of holding +4x8 aggro in Nova and Human form, but we have to keep in mind that not all Warshades are created equal and if a taunt aura is put anywhere but the default 'tanking' form it might make it difficult for new players/old players rolling first time Khelds to become accustomed to the AT's.
I've yet to play a kheld past about level 8 simply because it gave me too much headache to worry about how the build was going to play out, whether I was going to be gimped for skipping forms if I decided to play a humanform, or if I'd have enough slots for other powers if I decided to go tri-form or dual-form. And the biggest thing that keeps me from rolling a warshade is the lock-out from flight pool. Flight is my preferred travel power, and scoff if you will I have difficulty getting around the game as well without it, and trying to teleport properly without at least hover makes for a giant pain in the rear for me. When I did play a warshade for a short time I ended up taking nova form simply for flight, with no intent to use it as an actual attack mode, which really just ended up giving me a flight power with a far too long activation time.
Personally, the biggest changes I would make the Khelds based on what I've seen and things that I've read on the forum would be to open up travel pools to both (just gray out anything that could be a redundant pick, ala shield defense and two handed sets in character creation) for greater travel options, buff human form powers so they don't feel so anemic on a peacebringer, don't know if this is needed on warshade but if so, do it, and finally (and I know this is very unlikely to happen but I'm putting it out there anyway) when a player picks a form power, give the six powers that come with it an automatic 3 slots per power. That would allow players at least a little leeway when it comes to slotting their non-form powers and make it not such a huge decision to take one or both of them. I could handle 3-slotted form powers as an extra "I just felt like it for fun" power, and if I made a dual/tri-form build it would be much easier to slot them without totally gimping the rest of my build. Just a mostly outsiders eye on the situation, take it as you will.
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I'm relatively sure that both AT's get access to their respective powers. PBs get afterburner and WSs get the long range port. so really one is only getting locked out from the other. kinda a nitpick but still. | Then theres the new fifth power in the travel pools, of which we're locked out of flight and teleport, so no afterburner or long range port for us... |
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| By this point, if they actually had stuff for us they'd have told us...we'd be the most ecstatic bunch in the game, the devs could do no wrong because holy crap they actually DID something for Khelds for a change...something that didn't require us reminding them that we'd be broke if they didnt, or that we actually exist and someone plays the AT's still...Im angry...Im sick of being left out in the cold and told "When we have time, when we have time", while they just go off and keep making new stuff instead of balancing the crap they put in the game years ago. Im sick of the same old run around that we get every single patch. The same old run around thats just there to shut us up... |
for lack of giving 2 s**ts to explain my feelings on this ima just say, thats da way baseball go.
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| So what can we do? Im open to suggestions, because its pretty obvious being quiet and talking amongst ourselves with the occasional politely put forth question hasnt worked. How do we draw attention, how do we get them to stand up and take notice and DO something? Its gonna have to be organized whatever it is, and we need to do it right, not just storming about with torches and pitchforks, because that just gets the whining label thrown around and being ignored. Internet petitions never work...speaking with our wallets wont work because we really aren't that big a portion of the player base, they'd never notice us. I really don't know, I just know I want to do something to get them to do something in return... |
you can put together all the imperical data, data mining, numbers, subjective feedback whatever you wanna put together as a community, bottom line is the devs will do what the devs will do when the devs wanna do it. ex. pvp theres literally nothing more the community can do to tell the devs pvp sucks (including flat out leaving which also apparently doesn't work) and there still hasn't been any changes since the day i13 was launched.
personally I would say that our best chance is that when freedom hits, game goes f2p, and playing a kheld means having to pay PP (obvs for non VIPs) then there will probably be afew people who complain "LOLWTFISTHISSHITIPAIDFORWHYDOESITSUCK!!11!1!! " and then you might get something done either from the decrease in playtime khelds get or the increase in ******** from mr. john Q f2player.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Yes, I was referring to the version of Sunless Mire on the Dwarf form. They may call it something else, but my only WS is a human-form build, so I don't recall if it's named differently.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Meh, the Dwarf forms need it most... Of course, my Warshade is capable of holding +4x8 aggro in Nova and Human form, but we have to keep in mind that not all Warshades are created equal and if a taunt aura is put anywhere but the default 'tanking' form it might make it difficult for new players/old players rolling first time Khelds to become accustomed to the AT's.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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So you want a taunt effect added to Black Dwarf Mire to match the one in White Dwarf Flare to give the Black Dwarf more tanking ability?|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Yes, I was referring to the version of Sunless Mire on the Dwarf form. They may call it something else, but my only WS is a human-form build, so I don't recall if it's named differently.
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Sure! Just as soon as White Dwarf Flare offers up a damage and tohit buff...
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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And they've even said (in a ustream chat) that they haven't given up on the MA, so that one doesn't QUITE count... yet. Base builders like myself used to be told the same thing about that, too...|
Originally Posted by PC_guy
welcome to the world of PvPers, base builders, MAers, ect.
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| personally I would say that our best chance is that when freedom hits, game goes f2p, and playing a kheld means having to pay PP (obvs for non VIPs) then there will probably be afew people who complain "LOLWTFISTHISSHITIPAIDFORWHYDOESITSUCK!!11!1!! " and then you might get something done either from the decrease in playtime khelds get or the increase in ******** from mr. john Q f2player. |
It's going to happen. I'm not going to say we told them so, even though we have been. I'm not going to be gratified to see them eating crow... with egg on their faces. I've just come to accept the fact that it's the only way they're going to learn. They'll either rise to the challenge... or they won't.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
They will, supposedly, be a new powerset. If they make it out of testing.