FYI, I specifically asked Second Measure at Comic Con about Peacebringers (at Grey Pilgrim's request).
He said they're currently in an informal discussion stage, where they realize that they need some love and are weighing their options, but they don't have an opening in the development schedule to get anything done prior to Issue 21's launch. I told him I assumed that Issue 22 was probably locked out as well given the way they're developing 2-3 issues in advance, and he said that wasn't necessarily the case.
So, I'm sorry to report that there won't be anything specific for Kheldians at Issue 21's launch, but there's still the possibility of mid-issue or Issue 22 changes. And you know the producer--the guy who handles the budgeting of resources (including time)--has Kheldian issues on his radar.
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Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I think I already thanked you for asking, Chad, but in case I didn't: thanks! It's good to know we are at least on the radar... the not knowing anything is killer. As for when it will happen, it's always surprising to me how some power changes can be fit in. I was surprised as all get out when Castle made some awesome changes to Fiery Aura just before Going Rogue came out. So we'll definitely hope for the changes to happen soon. 
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I will say thank you for asking, living in the middle of nowhere I'm not really in a position to stalk/corner the devs at cons about this; so I appreciate you doing that much.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
FYI, I specifically asked Second Measure at Comic Con about Peacebringers (at Grey Pilgrim's request).
He said they're currently in an informal discussion stage, where they realize that they need some love and are weighing their options, but they don't have an opening in the development schedule to get anything done prior to Issue 21's launch. I told him I assumed that Issue 22 was probably locked out as well given the way they're developing 2-3 issues in advance, and he said that wasn't necessarily the case. So, I'm sorry to report that there won't be anything specific for Kheldians at Issue 21's launch, but there's still the possibility of mid-issue or Issue 22 changes. And you know the producer--the guy who handles the budgeting of resources (including time)--has Kheldian issues on his radar. |
I cant get my enthusiasm up for the response though. We've been on the short list and they've been discussing what to do for what seems like years now. Im cynical enough to really only believe they're working on us when they pop in and actually TALK to us about it...or when I see it, whichever comes first.
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Hey at least you asked. That's cool.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
FYI, I specifically asked Second Measure at Comic Con about Peacebringers (at Grey Pilgrim's request).
He said they're currently in an informal discussion stage, where they realize that they need some love and are weighing their options, but they don't have an opening in the development schedule to get anything done prior to Issue 21's launch. I told him I assumed that Issue 22 was probably locked out as well given the way they're developing 2-3 issues in advance, and he said that wasn't necessarily the case. So, I'm sorry to report that there won't be anything specific for Kheldians at Issue 21's launch, but there's still the possibility of mid-issue or Issue 22 changes. And you know the producer--the guy who handles the budgeting of resources (including time)--has Kheldian issues on his radar. |
I think with Freedom coming out, they have a lot of new things to add to the cash store and I am pretty sure balancing Kheldians (mainly Peacebringer) isn't even in the top 20 priorities.
So realistically, they know Peacebringer has some issues but are they important enough to devote that much time to it? Probably not.
I truly think some of the issues I have with Peacebringer is design issues. PB has the tools to be very versatile but the shifting delays and restrictions on what powers can be used during forms just make this AT very frustrating. The "fun" value disappears faster for me. It's very cool to have a flying Squid at lvl 6 but it gets old because that's all you are going to get = 4 powers.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
yea i'd feel alot better if they i.e. anyone from the dev team was in here discussing it with us. castle did that with both the SD and FA changes. but thats just me.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Quite honestly, I think they should allow both Dwarf/Nova to use:
1. Photon Seekers (I SERIOUSLY doubt this power is going to ruin the game if Dwarf can cast it)
2. Glowing Touch (now you can have a blaster/tanker with a small heal power to give PB more uniqueness)
3. Conserve Energy
4. Dull Pain
5. Power Pool Powers: Leaderships, Medicine, Hasten. I can see why forms can't use super speed but if they can only restrict the whole set and not individual power, then please at least allow Forms to use Leaderships.
Human form can still have the shields, the blasts, stun and nuke. That is still very versatile.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I hope "weighing their options" includes looking at the plethora of good ideas and concerns we, the rather well-informed players, have posted on the forums. Honestly, if they make another pass at pb's to fix them and it fails to correct most if not all of the AT's issues, it will likely be the kiss of death for the AT, locked as it will be behind purchasable AT status.
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
yea i'd feel alot better if they i.e. anyone from the dev team was in here discussing it with us. castle did that with both the SD and FA changes. but thats just me.
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Originally Posted by Microcosm
I hope "weighing their options" includes looking at the plethora of good ideas and concerns we, the rather well-informed players, have posted on the forums. Honestly, if they make another pass at pb's to fix them and it fails to correct most if not all of the AT's issues, it will likely be the kiss of death for the AT, locked as it will be behind purchasable AT status.
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Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
And I thought I was jaded. Kheldians have been improved upon more than any other AT that I can think of. I'm still so tickled that I can run enemies down now while in Dwarf form.
What would really piss me off is if the devs remade PBs to be clones of Warshades in an attempt to "fix" them. The last thing we need is for them to take away our three minutes of awesome god mode because some people are still whining about the easiest to cope with crash in the game. Just click on EB or even RE and switch to DF and you are right back in the fight.
The ability to use some shields in Nova or HF blasts in Dwarf would be very cool. Give PBs a touch more damage if you want, maybe give Warshades a CC proc or something but for Smurf's sake leave Light Form alone.
I think the reason Light Form is complained about is not just because of the crash, but also because of the long recharge it's on and the inability to switch forms while it's running. You realize it is the PB's answer to Eclipse, which can not only cap the Warshade's resistance to all damage with a small amount of enemies but also be made perma with no crash in sight. Eclipse also carries over in forms... Light form just pales in comparison.
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Nope, can't agree with that. Changing LF to be like Eclipse would make it nearly useless in a lot of boss or AV fights which is a huge part of this game. There's no point in having two Kheldians AT's if they are gonna be exactly alike. Conversely, if you made LF a Strength of Will clone it would flat out just not provide as much resistance as Eclipse or LF currently. There has to be a better way.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I think the reason Light Form is complained about is not just because of the crash, but also because of the long recharge it's on and the inability to switch forms while it's running. You realize it is the PB's answer to Eclipse, which can not only cap the Warshade's resistance to all damage with a small amount of enemies but also be made perma with no crash in sight. Eclipse also carries over in forms... Light form just pales in comparison.
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Making Light Form crashless, and with much shorter duration and recharge will make it much more useful. Make it so that it can break Mez too, and we have a winner.
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1
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Originally Posted by oreso
Making Light Form crashless, and with much shorter duration and recharge will make it much more useful. Make it so that it can break Mez too, and we have a winner.
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This is pretty much how I feel, except I think it should allow for form shifts instead of adding status protection. It definitely needs to be on a shorter recharge, but since it isn't a situational power like Eclipse allowing it to be perma'd would be overpowered imo.
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Nope, can't agree with that. Changing LF to be like Eclipse would make it nearly useless in a lot of boss or AV fights which is a huge part of this game. There's no point in having two Kheldians AT's if they are gonna be exactly alike. Conversely, if you made LF a Strength of Will clone it would flat out just not provide as much resistance as Eclipse or LF currently. There has to be a better way.
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I never said PB's need an Eclipse clone, I just said it was a much worse power.
The only real problem with PBs is merely that Dwarf Form doesn't do quite enough damage at higher levels but I wouldn't want to change that if it means White Dwarfs would have less resistance or slower recharge times or a less effective heal.
Nova isn't as bad because it's safer to drop into HF for Build Up when at range usually.
It's hard to see how changing Light Form by giving a recharge boost to Photon Seekers or some other kind of damage boost when in LF is needed as you are already pretty awesome in LF anyway. The problem also lies in the trade-offs that would have to be made in order to make LF recharge faster. I guess it some kind of ability to switch out of Light Form into Dwarf and Nova with a temporary damage boost could be useful if that's even possible considering the nature of forms and the question of what they'd do about the crash then.
The recharge ratio on LF is not that bad either since you can get it to being up for 3 minutes while down for around 6 with Hasten even without spending tons of money on an IO build to reduce the recharge time even further.
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Why trade offs? Should be fine. I'm thinking of making it a Moment of Glory style power. Much more flexible and fun to use.|
Originally Posted by Irresponsible
It's hard to see how changing Light Form by giving a recharge boost to Photon Seekers or some other kind of damage boost when in LF is needed as you are already pretty awesome in LF anyway. The problem also lies in the trade-offs that would have to be made in order to make LF recharge faster.
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Really, given the high resistance Human form has on teams anyway, Light Form's main contribution is mez protection. It could give much less +res and still hit the hard cap.
EDIT: I lie, the main contribution is the rootless animations ^_^ I -love- that!
OMG! How like, totally kewl are these characters?!1
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
The only real problem with PBs is merely that Dwarf Form doesn't do quite enough damage at higher levels but I wouldn't want to change that if it means White Dwarfs would have less resistance or slower recharge times or a less effective heal.
Nova isn't as bad because it's safer to drop into HF for Build Up when at range usually. It's hard to see how changing Light Form by giving a recharge boost to Photon Seekers or some other kind of damage boost when in LF is needed as you are already pretty awesome in LF anyway. The problem also lies in the trade-offs that would have to be made in order to make LF recharge faster. I guess it some kind of ability to switch out of Light Form into Dwarf and Nova with a temporary damage boost could be useful if that's even possible considering the nature of forms and the question of what they'd do about the crash then. The recharge ratio on LF is not that bad either since you can get it to being up for 3 minutes while down for around 6 with Hasten even without spending tons of money on an IO build to reduce the recharge time even further. |
Photon Seekers are a separate issue and apparently one of the main reasons for the damage differential between WS and PB- Dark Extraction is one of the highest damage pets in the game and PS is... Not.
My friend had the idea that PB's should also lose build up in favor of a Rage clone which I think would be a good way to somewhat compensate for lack of Mires while maintaining the PB's self contained nature (Since you are not familiar with the Warshade, Sunless Mire and Black Dwarf Mire can be stacked pretty much all the time to keep us at the 300% damage cap with enough enemies.)
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I think you're probably in the minority here. Do you not realize that Eclipse also caps resists to all damage in ALL forms with NO negative effects... AND it can be made perma? With the inherent taken into account, my warshade has hardcapped resists with 1 AV as the only eclipse target in dwarf form a lot of the time.
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
The recharge ratio on LF is not that bad either since you can get it to being up for 3 minutes while down for around 6 with Hasten even without spending tons of money on an IO build to reduce the recharge time even further.
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I just think it's unlikely that they are gonna make LF a clone of Eclipse or find some way to make it recharge faster or not crash or apply to all the forms that doesn't gimp it. Would love to be proven wrong. I'd really settle for just being able to click on Build Up and maybe Hasten while in tank form myself.
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Originally Posted by Irresponsible
I just think it's unlikely that they are gonna make LF a clone of Eclipse or find some way to make it recharge faster or not crash or apply to all the forms that doesn't gimp it. Would love to be proven wrong. I'd really settle for just being able to click on Build Up while in tank form myself.
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Here's thing thing- It's already gimped. That's what we're trying to get fixed.
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I wouldn't say gimped so much as outmoded. Light Form's basically an Unstoppable clone. Skip down to the Tanker forum and see what they think about that one. The all out crash is a relic from a very different state of the game (Most notably, pre-IO bonuses).|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Here's thing thing- It's already gimped. That's what we're trying to get fixed.
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Light Form is a big standout among the likely fixes for Kheldians but there are other, more numeric, issues that need to be worked out as well.
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Yep, I can only get White Dwarf to work. I don't use Nova at all and if I use human-form it's straight to the hospital and xp Debt.
My solution would be to grant extra slots at 20, 32, 40, and 50, but cap how many each form can have. This is very balanced since players can only be one form at a time and it supports the concept of a shapeshifting AT.
Or maybe give the Nova and Dwarf 3 inherent slots in each power instead of just one.
Anyway, my PB only works in Dwarf form in the CoH game enviornments. I play many many alts of all types successfully, but the Khelds are badly in need of a fix.
I remember when Regeneration was found to be overpowered they changed it every 6 months till they reached a balanced set. I would like to see that kind of envisioning applied to Khelds because they have been ignored for far too long.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
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This is the kind of thing I don't understand. Human is actually the most survivable form to use at least at high level once you get LF. Dwarf Form is the one that becomes useless at high level cause of the relative lack of damage. You can teleport out and drop to human form for Build Up and Hasten and then tp back in but that greatly reduces your DPS compared to what Black Dwarfs can do. Rigging up a macro or bind to drop to human and hit SF or Build Up before switching back to tanking works also but it is riskier.|
Originally Posted by Quixotik
Yep, I can only get White Dwarf to work. I don't use Nova at all and if I use human-form it's straight to the hospital and xp Debt.
My solution would be to grant extra slots at 20, 32, 40, and 50, but cap how many each form can have. This is very balanced since players can only be one form at a time and it supports the concept of a shapeshifting AT. Or maybe give the Nova and Dwarf 3 inherent slots in each power instead of just one. Anyway, my PB only works in Dwarf form in the CoH game enviornments. I play many many alts of all types successfully, but the Khelds are badly in need of a fix. I remember when Regeneration was found to be overpowered they changed it every 6 months till they reached a balanced set. I would like to see that kind of envisioning applied to Khelds because they have been ignored for far too long. |
Not using Nova as an opening strike and closer to pick off stragglers really just gimps your damage output for no good reason if you are triform. It's like people are playing another game or have never really taken a PB to 50.
Giving us extra slots would be unbalanced with IO/set bonuses and really just isnt needed.
My Peacebringer just hit 42 last night. Gotta take advantage of weekly itf bonus in the end.
How should I put it lightly? Let's just say I've been forcing myself to level PB. I really want to like them but the design just frustrates/annoys me.
Originally I was a Human-only build. Well, I totally dislike Solar Flare's pbaoe KNOCK BACK. PB already has so many knock backs (hello? Photon Seekers) and I just don't see the point of adding one more. Not only that, my build uses Hover and you can't use Solar Flare in air.
Then I respec the build and focus mostly on dual forms: Dwarf and Nova. I mostly use Dwarf because 1. I enjoy the mez protection 2. I've never leveled a Tanker higher than lvl 10. Dwarf form is alright. Its damage is just so low. Are real tankers damage this low? They seem a lot higher than what my Dwarf is doing. And in comparison to Black Dwarf, sure, White Dwarf survives a bit better but I dare say White Dwarf takes 2x longer to kill a group of enemy.
I try to change forms and use human-only powers to make myself more "versatile" but I can't stand the freaking DELAYS. It is just so annoying. If I am on Dwarf form, I am usually grabbing aggro. Now if a friend is dying, I can switch to human to use Glowing Touch but guess what? My Dwarf's aggro is STILL ON ME and I may get hurt so bad or mezzed and spend another 3-4s to get back to Dwarf. The human shields are all de-toggled when you change forms so having them is meaningless if you are changing forms all the time.
Another annoying thing is slow debuff. I was on ITF last night and I usually jumped in first. Man oh man, those warshade debuffed the !@#$ hell of me. They didn't kill me but I also didn't have any attack available. I tried to switch to Nova a few times and almost got myself killed. It was in cave so I didn't have much space to escape.
The problem with Peacebringer is simple. It is not fun. I know it's subjective but the forms have zero synergies and they put so much restriction just to annoy the hell of you. Warshade, on the other hand, has good synergies and can be fun. My WS is only 27 but I am working on him now. I really enjoy the corpse leeching power. I can't wait for the corpse bomb and pet and Eclipse!
Some AT and sets can be under-performing (a bit) but they can't be annoying. Peacebringer is full of annoying restrictions that encourage me NOT to change forms and utilize PB's potential. Hell, I play mostly the most under-forming core AT in the game - Stalker. Statistically Stalker is inferior in almost any shape/form but it at least has a style. PB allows you to have access to different styles but then they also put so many restrictions.
I am lvl 42 but I haven't even picked any new power for a while. There's really not many powers that I would need since I can't use them in Dwarf/Nova form anyway. You want some synergies? Make the nuke crashless or keep it crashable but give Dwarf/Nova some powers to gain back the loss endurance so you can change to human to nuke and then switch back to forms. Let me cast Seekers in both Nova/Dwarf form. They are really not that powerful. I honestly just don't know what new powers I need. I even took Vengence but I have to switch to human and then wait another 3-4s to get back to Dwarf/Nova.
And those human shields should give some passive +resistance so you are getting something even when you switch forms. Is there any way to keep the toggles on after you switch?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.