I used to want to respec my Invul/Fire Tanker once upon a time...then IOs and i13 buffs came out and solved my woes 
For one, kudos to Haetron for going beyond the "But I want, this is stupid!" that this seems to see so often in response. (Not being sarcastic. His reply's *exactly* the sort of thing these were designed for. Fast forward the conversation, start from "Here's where we stand now.")
That said...
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I'm going to ignore absolutely everything else and focus on this, because if anything it takes the idea of powerset respecs - that the devs have already said a flat out "No" to, not because of tech, but because *they don't like the idea,* - and slaps it down, curbstomps it a few times, grinds broken glass into its skin and sprinkles it with lemon juice. |
Originally Posted by Haetron
That's over a year ago. Things have changed with CoH Freedom. Im hoping the devs will change their minds and say "yes." With the switch to a more micro-transaction based system, Powerset Respecs are a valuable service that could serve to increase profit. |
Look at what you said above. Then think about the limits put in with Free and Premium... *specifically* the limits on the number of characters.
A powerset respec? One time fee. Respec powerset. *No extra slots.*
Do you think PS wants simply that one time fee - or would it make *far* more sense to say "Well, you want more characters, we've got this awesome VIP plan that gives you 12 slots on every server... *plus a whole new server!" Plus more powersets! Come, give us a subscription fee!"
If anything, Freedom should be seen as not the nail in the coffin of powerset respecs, but the steel-reinforced zombieproof able-to-withstand-a-nuclear-blast concrete sarcophagus around the coffin that's been buried extra deep.
So when we get power set respecs, when do AT respecs happen? 
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See, I disagree, and there's really no way of knowing if the Devs thought process has changed or not. I personally do not think that the absence of this feature is going to be a driving cause for people to sub. If a premium/F2P character wants more characters, they can simply buy more slots for a one time fee. PS seems happy with this idea. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Look at what you said above. Then think about the limits put in with Free and Premium... *specifically* the limits on the number of characters.
A powerset respec? One time fee. Respec powerset. *No extra slots.* Do you think PS wants simply that one time fee - or would it make *far* more sense to say "Well, you want more characters, we've got this awesome VIP plan that gives you 12 slots on every server... *plus a whole new server!" Plus more powersets! Come, give us a subscription fee!" |
And the core source of most powerset respec requests is wanting to keep an active character and their badges. The individual reasons deviate from that core reason, generally speaking. It has nothing to do with wanting more characters. That's the reason it currently comes up quite a bit even now. Do I have the extra slots to just rebuild a character to level 50? Yeah. Could I pay for a name change, or even better, which I've done, just slap a hyphen in there or make a variant of it? Yeah, and I've done it. But that said, there's at least 3 characters on my account that, if I could, I would pay for powerset respecing. And this is money that PS could be taking from me, even with my current subscription.
The Microtransaction/subscription Hybrid system thrives on providing unique things to subscribed players that are not included with their subscription, and providing the services enjoyed with a subscription to the free player crowd for a one time fee. If this were to be provided, it would be doing both, and should be priced accordingly. Price it above the cost of subscribing for a month, and above the cost of character slot and name change tokens. Then you can have premium players paying a large one time cost to keep a character and change sets, instead of lesser cost to restart in a new slot, if they want the option. Plus, it's a new "VIP" service that subscribed players can either retain and use their stipends on, OR, even better, pay more money for.
I simply, financially, don't see any reason for NCsoft/PS to not offer this with this transition (or shortly afterward) other than if the cost of developing it would be exorbitant enough to the point it'd be hard to turn a profit on.
Now, there may be ideological reasons not to, and that's something entirely different, and if it is the case, it's pointless to argue.
(And a note because I always see this when Powerset Respecs/AT Respecs get suggested. The "Ok, but make them start over from level 1!" option. That would be a great idea for an in-game earned reward, but it would be horrible as a paid service because it'd be just as simple to delete the character and remake it, and not pay PS anything.)
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It's very easy to repetitively bash a hammer and chisel into a rock.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
If it's not that hard, the game isn't that difficult, etc.. Then that debunks the entire "Learning powersets is a hard and long process!"
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It's extremely difficult to sculpt a replica of the human form while doing so.
That's the key difference; it's not hard to level, no. But it IS more difficult to firmly grasp every ability of your AT's primary/secondary combination, harness the strengths, and fix the weaknesses.
Don't believe me?
Have a friend with a Claws/Fire Brute AE powerlevel you a Dark Melee/Dark Armor brute. Come back to me once you've got the character's playstyle, IO build, tactics, and preferred enemy group to fight down.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Good idea.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I'd support primary/secondary respecs IF:
- It started you back down at level one, but gave you a "bonus patrol xp" power (akin to the vet reward) with enough charges to roughly last up to the level you were when taking that power. That way, it could be used for people that want to keep their badges while requiring the person to learn the new aspects of the power at an accelerated leveling rate. |
OP: Bad idea.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
I could support a respec that reset you to level 1 but you kept your badges. I'm unsure how many would use it; holding on to the levels, even on another server would be "worth more" to many people than keeping badges. But on some of my characters, like the Joan of Arkansas character who uses a halo in her costume and thus can only be rerolled at Christmas time, it might be worth it.
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So what you're saying is people can get a character to level 50 with no clue as to how their powers work with the existing system with minimum effort. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Have a friend with a Claws/Fire Brute AE powerlevel you a Dark Melee/Dark Armor brute. Come back to me once you've got the character's playstyle, IO build, tactics, and preferred enemy group to fight down.
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How is this an argument against letting PS go ahead and make a profit by providing it as a service again?
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Because the people that take advantage of that will be thrown into a totally new powerset that they may or may not have played before. If they've played it, great! They know what they're doing.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
So what you're saying is people can get a character to level 50 with no clue as to how their powers work with the existing system with minimum effort.
How is this an argument against letting PS go ahead and make a profit by providing it as a service again? |
If they don't, they'll fumble around trying to figure it out and the majority of folks will be REALLY mad they paid for a Powerset Change service because "their new powers suck."
Just trust me on this, you HAVE to crawl before you walk and you HAVE to walk before you run. There is no shortcut, you'll fall on your face.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Because the people that take advantage of that will be thrown into a totally new powerset that they may or may not have played before. If they've played it, great! They know what they're doing.
If they don't, they'll fumble around trying to figure it out and the majority of folks will be REALLY mad they paid for a Powerset Change service because "their new powers suck." Just trust me on this, you HAVE to crawl before you walk and you HAVE to walk before you run. There is no shortcut, you'll fall on your face. |
I think you're overestimating the difficulty it takes to pick up a powerset and learn it, personally. But this still isn't really an argument against providing it as a paid service, because worst case scenario, if the person was completely incapable of learning the new set, they could always pay for a revert. Or perhaps PS could even include a 24-48 hour buyer's remorse "reverse" change. The ability to just roll back to a saved copy of the character prior to the powerset change. But this would likely be extra work, if I was in PS shoes I'd just sale the service with an appropriate disclaimer and if the person wants to reverse it anyway, let them pay for it again.
I really think they should do this. I would suggest that it be gated, in that only one Powerset Respec could be purchased per account per month. It would NOT allow you to switch ATs. But here's the kicker-- it would only affect one of your builds, so build 1 could be a DM/ELA Brute while build 2 could be a DB/Invuln Brute. (In fact, it would probably HAVE to affect only one build, as the other builds would have their own respective IOs.)
This is highly unlikely.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
You forgot to quote Acemace. 
Positron has said that the idea of power set respecs makes the deveopers' heads explode
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Honestly, why would I pay 5, 10 ,15 or 20 dollars or more for this when I can simply power level a new character with the power sets I want in less then a day?
I see no need for it, but I could understand maybe someone with a main badge hunter that don't want to lose their badges and whatnot in order to switch to another power set because they don't like their current primary or secondary.
I would like in on one of my mains, so I wouldn't mind it, but I could do without.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
This is one of the reasons I wish anniversary badges were universally unlocked. I have toons that I would just hate to lose the badge on but I just don't want to play with the powersets they have.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
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That is all.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
This is highly unlikely.
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BUUUUUUT, yeah I'd pay up to 50 dollars for it if they ever offered it as a service.
Yes, I'm serious.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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*raises hand* That's me, right here. I HATE SUPER REFLEXES. And Willpower fits the character concept a lot better, anyway.|
Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
I see no need for it, but I could understand maybe someone with a main badge hunter that don't want to lose their badges and whatnot in order to switch to another power set because they don't like their current primary or secondary.
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I would gladly return to level 1 if I got to keep all my badges and swap SR for Willpower. (Bonus points if I got Energy Melee as a Scrapper option, too!) It'd take me a couple months to get back up to 50, but I'd be much happier with my character's powers and performance as a result.
I wouldn't quite pay $50 for it, but I would definitely pay $20 each to get my Scrapper and Stalker both Energy Melee/Willpower.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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The best example of this was the AE Baby influx.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
I think you're overestimating the difficulty it takes to pick up a powerset and learn it, personally.
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Everyone and their brother leveled Blasters, Scrappers and Controllers (heroside at the time) to 50 within hours. Not like 20 hours either; 8 hours or less.
I have never seen such horrid playing. A Blaster that drops Bonfire on every spawn? A /Regen Scrapper with all 4 Medicine powers, 3 attacks and Confront? A /Rad Controller who says the "toggles cost too much to use and don't do much anyway."
I think you're underestimating people's capacity to get frustrated, make mistakes and throw in the towel when it comes to a game like this.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I like the cut of your concept's jib, Chase.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I'd support primary/secondary respecs IF:
- It started you back down at level one, but gave you a "bonus patrol xp" power (akin to the vet reward) with enough charges to roughly last up to the level you were when taking that power. That way, it could be used for people that want to keep their badges while requiring the person to learn the new aspects of the power at an accelerated leveling rate. |
Seriously, how many of you remember a few years back when Superman's powers went all energy based, then he was split into a Red and Blue Superman? Anyone? C'mon, let's get those hands up! Okay, you...you...a few of you. Great. That's good to see.
Yeah THAT'S the kind of thing that would be fun to play...like if my main went from Electrical Blaster to Electric Melee, or Electric Tank! 'Course I can *play* both Blasters and Tanks, though I'm a little better with the Tanks, and I'm finding myself not bad with Scrappers, and for a game that encourages alts I'm sure a lot of us can handle many ATs quite well.
But that would mean I'd have MANY sets and various Enhancements that just wouldn't work anymore, and if you want to go from "Class" to "Class", I think it should be treated as a complete rebuild of your character from Level 1.
'Course the argument against IMHO is that the only reason not to build a new but similar character (ex: My Tank "Superman" is now joined on Guardian by my Blaster "Electric Superman") is that you want to be able to keep "all your stuff". A valid point, to be sure, but with our account-wide Veterans Rewards and the new ease of transferring Inf without needing a third party negates much of that.
So yeah...Devs'll say no, playerbase will (likely) say collectively "no" as well. There's really no need, just make a new character and it becomes an RP issue at that point.
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
If people are worried about people leveling one character and then just paying money out to respec it over and over, could just limit it to a certain number of times per account/character/whatever.
A one time purchase for one character per account! Or a one time purchase per character. So they couldn't do it over and over again (and hey they may even regret it) but it would give some an opportunity to keep their badges on a character they possibly like the concept of but not the powersets.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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The funny thing is the the original guide for the game (the one back at release) listed powerset respec as the reward for the Tera Vota (sp?) trial. It claimed that you could respec everything except origin. Unfortunatly, when they finally activated the trial, it had changed into the respecs we currently have, which don't allow for changing power sets.
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Originally Posted by Grae Knight
I am hoping that the new store will offer us a chance to purchase powerset respecs. I know I am not the only one with that beloved level 50 from Issue 2 that would like to change one or both of their sets to something else. I would even support it being a relatively high price to keep it from being abused.
Does this interest anyone else or would this be too game-breaking? |
Be a hero!!
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Now see, this post doesn't seem so much like you're concerned what the person paying for the respec and instead are concerned on what it'd be like playing with the person after a respec. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The best example of this was the AE Baby influx.
Everyone and their brother leveled Blasters, Scrappers and Controllers (heroside at the time) to 50 within hours. Not like 20 hours either; 8 hours or less. I have never seen such horrid playing. A Blaster that drops Bonfire on every spawn? A /Regen Scrapper with all 4 Medicine powers, 3 attacks and Confront? A /Rad Controller who says the "toggles cost too much to use and don't do much anyway." I think you're underestimating people's capacity to get frustrated, make mistakes and throw in the towel when it comes to a game like this. |
But, Red Name statement is "Unlikely." It's a step up from No, but hey. Not by much.
We're going to be getting an entire new server that people can transfer retired alts to. Or they can be transferred to the French and German servers if a player isn't playing on them. That's 36 unused slots for some people. 24 if they go Premium.