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Edited for clarity. |
Originally Posted by fur_nes
I had to laugh when I read this...
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Okay, obviously, if I'm posting in this thread, I'm here to rain on your little parade.
The fact is, from the time that PvP was added to the game in May 2005's Issue Number 4: Colosseum, to the so called "PvP Disaster" that was Issue 13 in December 2008, the Player-Versus-Player population never rose above single digit percentages.
One of the developers went so far as to once say that the Old-Hollows map, the pre-issue 12 version, averaged more player traffic... that is the number of unique players entering the zone... for each server... than all of the PvP open-area zones and arenas combined.
The simple facts are these: The PvP player population in City of Heroes was never large enough to justify the resources that were spent to develop Issue 4. The PvP player population has never been a large, or profitable, part of the player-base. NCSoft nor Paragon Studios have any financial incentive to focus on PvP development for this game, City Of Heroes.
Now, as far as I am aware, NCSoft's official policy is that they would like to drive PvP-oriented gamers to their Aion and Guild Wars franchises, which have been successful in attracting a wide-range of Player-versus-Player enthusiasts.
My suspicion is that unless NCSoft has a fundamental shift in policy; for example an overwhelming financial incentive; to fund the development of player-versus-player content for City of Heroes, it is very likely that Player-versus-player development is effectively halted.
Now, I get what you are trying to accomplish here.
If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was...
You are not.
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Except it wasn't out of context.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was...
You are not. |
It seems you are confused like usual. Your edited "fix" to his quote doesn't make sense for what he was talking about. That might be correct about the current PvP situation.
The fact is, they did the exact opposite of what Posi said in the quote with i13. They tried to bring in "new blood" with no regards to the current PvP'ers and obviously didn't care about losing them.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Lets see here, 0 for 1.
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If you used your brain power, you could probably also infer that the hollows was a level 6 zone that was connected to the most common starting zone in the game. That quote isn't a reflection of the PvP population, its a reflection of players migrating to the next nearest zone once they get their first few levels. Its been long known there are are a much much larger amount of low level toons than 50's floating around (Which is where most PVP occurs, and even if the zone wasn't for level 50, you would still want to be because of the way slots exemp) | One of the developers went so far as to once say that the Old-Hollows map, the pre-issue 12 version, averaged more player traffic... that is the number of unique players entering the zone... for each server... than all of the PvP open-area zones and arenas combined. |
For added humor, I can't think of a PvP toon I had pre i13 that didn't go through the hollows mission arcs on his way to 50.
0 for 2
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| The simple facts are these: The PvP player population in City of Heroes was never large enough to justify the resources that were spent to develop Issue 4. The PvP player population has never been a large, or profitable, part of the player-base. NCSoft nor Paragon Studios have any financial incentive to focus on PvP development for this game, City Of Heroes. |
Annnnnnd 0 for 3
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Now, I get what you are trying to accomplish here. If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was... You are not. |
He doesn't really need to rally anyone. There is no significant new population to rally, and what little is left of the old population already know the devs stance on things.
It was a funny bit of Irony is all coming from Posi.
I know its the internet, but please, for the sake of the CoH Community, think a little before you post.
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Please link me to where you got your percentages from.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Edited for clarity.
Okay, obviously, if I'm posting in this thread, I'm here to rain on your little parade. The fact is, from the time that PvP was added to the game in May 2005's Issue Number 4: Colosseum, to the so called "PvP Disaster" that was Issue 13 in December 2008, the Player-Versus-Player population never rose above single digit percentages. One of the developers went so far as to once say that the Old-Hollows map, the pre-issue 12 version, averaged more player traffic... that is the number of unique players entering the zone... for each server... than all of the PvP open-area zones and arenas combined. The simple facts are these: The PvP player population in City of Heroes was never large enough to justify the resources that were spent to develop Issue 4. The PvP player population has never been a large, or profitable, part of the player-base. NCSoft nor Paragon Studios have any financial incentive to focus on PvP development for this game, City Of Heroes. Now, as far as I am aware, NCSoft's official policy is that they would like to drive PvP-oriented gamers to their Aion and Guild Wars franchises, which have been successful in attracting a wide-range of Player-versus-Player enthusiasts. My suspicion is that unless NCSoft has a fundamental shift in policy; for example an overwhelming financial incentive; to fund the development of player-versus-player content for City of Heroes, it is very likely that Player-versus-player development is effectively halted. Now, I get what you are trying to accomplish here. If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was... You are not. |
Thanks.
In Ex Libris' "Campfire" thread, she cited that as of i10, zone PvP population accounted for just above 10% the total player population as regulars. This was a slow decline from its highest point in i7. So yes, PvP has broken and maintained double digit population for quite a bit of time. This also doesn't consider arena users.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Tl dr
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Originally Posted by fur_nes
One thing that I was making clear to everyone is that we needed to treat our subscribers, past as well as present, with the respect they deserve. I have seen what happens when an MMO decides that it needs "new blood" and doesn't care who they have to lose in order to get it. All that does is show your new customers that you have the power to change the rules whenever you feel like it, and the veteran customers left out in the cold become a lobbying force against new people wanting to try your game.
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I wonder what MMO Positron is talking about....Hmm, I wonder what MMO he has seen decided it needed new blood and didn't care who they had to lose in order to get it...I wonder.
I don't really need to wonder.
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10% is huge. As if they didn't fire Castle sooner.
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Originally Posted by Reiraku
In Ex Libris' "Campfire" thread, she cited that as of i10, zone PvP population accounted for just above 10% the total player population as regulars. This was a slow decline from its highest point in i7. So yes, PvP has broken and maintained double digit population for quite a bit of time. This also doesn't consider arena users.
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If the devs made some fun PvP events/missions/zones/rewards that would appeal to all then maybe the PvP population would rise.
*shrug*
PVP in this game is sad, always has been. I don't think a powerset change that was to benefit pvp ever did any good to pump up the zones. Only times it actually was fun was during the first times rounding up signature heroes and villains as a huge horde in RV. Granted this was only on the champion server and not virtue/freedumb.
Nowadays pleasing the pvp crowd is an after thought, kinda like energy transfer.
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Once again you've missed the context of the post.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Edited for clarity.
Okay, obviously, if I'm posting in this thread, I'm here to rain on your little parade. The fact is, from the time that PvP was added to the game in May 2005's Issue Number 4: Colosseum, to the so called "PvP Disaster" that was Issue 13 in December 2008, the Player-Versus-Player population never rose above single digit percentages. One of the developers went so far as to once say that the Old-Hollows map, the pre-issue 12 version, averaged more player traffic... that is the number of unique players entering the zone... for each server... than all of the PvP open-area zones and arenas combined. The simple facts are these: The PvP player population in City of Heroes was never large enough to justify the resources that were spent to develop Issue 4. The PvP player population has never been a large, or profitable, part of the player-base. NCSoft nor Paragon Studios have any financial incentive to focus on PvP development for this game, City Of Heroes. Now, as far as I am aware, NCSoft's official policy is that they would like to drive PvP-oriented gamers to their Aion and Guild Wars franchises, which have been successful in attracting a wide-range of Player-versus-Player enthusiasts. My suspicion is that unless NCSoft has a fundamental shift in policy; for example an overwhelming financial incentive; to fund the development of player-versus-player content for City of Heroes, it is very likely that Player-versus-player development is effectively halted. Now, I get what you are trying to accomplish here. If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was... You are not. |
Je_Saist is like the Bizarro Arcana..it's hilarious.
Don't come in here and expect to get away with BSing the PVP community Je_Saist because unlike the rest of the community we will call you on your bull ****. It's a lesson the Devs have learned.
Another point - the horror that is HD/TS/DR - the devs invited the then pvp community on to beta to test and give feedback. Whole sgs quit on the spot when they saw how out of touch the developers were if they thought this was what we wanted. Everyone, publicly and privatly hated it. They did it anyway, then post deployment gave us a limited ability to turn it off in arena. Every post from every red name community leader et all (if you bother to read the pvp forums) says "we know you hate ts/dr/hd..but).
If pvp is so not worth their time or money why did they create whole sets of pvp ios? Not just throw away rewards for the less than double digit population you claim - but the most expensive rewards in the game.
You think that a super hero/villian MMO is not served by created player vs player content?
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Point of order: The rest of us do the same. And there, as here, he/she posts their erroneous information and never returns to defend it when called out on it.
| Don't come in here and expect to get away with BSing the PVP community Je_Saist because unlike the rest of the community we will call you on your bull ****. It's a lesson the Devs have learned. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Point of order 2: Those that got let go weren't allowed to make goodbye threads.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
10% is huge. As if they didn't fire Castle sooner.
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All lies are bad, regardless of which side they come from.
Be well, people of CoH.
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You know for all our differences in the PvP community we can all agree on three things; No one likes Je_Saist, PvP is fubared and Posi's post was so hypocritcal it's endearing.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Point of order 2: Those that got let go weren't allowed to make goodbye threads.
All lies are bad, regardless of which side they come from. |
You know, thinking on it as a "How do we get new blood into the PvP Zones" I think the only solutions I can think of right now are these:
1) Have the devs create some actual incentive to PvP Zones so that even if they don't want to PvP, they are in the zone for the incentive. Make it so if you launch the missile you get a buff that's a bit better. I know I stalk warburg quite a bit and I love to stop the launch.
2) More PvP SGs. Even if it's just in Freedom. I've been wondering if it would even be feazable to have my SG promote in the various zones as a PvP Group for a bit now, I've got a lot of good bennies so far (Ventrillo and the like) that would make a PvP group a bit more together, I just wonder if there would be any real call for something like that. Besides, teaming is cheating and cheating = wins.
3) NCSoft events in the PvP Zones could also be fun. Nothing major, just make it so that there is something like the Rikti raids or something like that there. Perhaps have it be a giant robot that each side is trying to take over... games really.
4) Let's just figure that Freedom is the PvP Server and get a group of us together and build up an Arena Tournament. Not just 1/1 3/3 5/5 fights, but Pokemon fights too... though tbh, I've never been in one of those... always been curious about 'em though.
For the Tournament, I would be more than happy to sponsor something like that and I know I could probably even get a nice little pot for the winners of each division (Rare IOs or something). I actually kinda' like that one... we should do it!
----------
PS: I know that #1 is a neverhappen kinda' thing. Just wanted to throw it out to show that the devs could do something, but it's really up to us to encourage new PvP activity.
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It's funnier if you let yourself believe je_saist is trolling every time he posts.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
You know for all our differences in the PvP community we can all agree on three things; No one likes Je_Saist, PvP is fubared and Posi's post was so hypocritcal it's endearing.
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Originally Posted by GageEndaI
You know, thinking on it as a "How do we get new blood into the PvP Zones" I think the only solutions I can think of right now are these:
1) Have the devs create some actual incentive to PvP Zones so that even if they don't want to PvP, they are in the zone for the incentive. Make it so if you launch the missile you get a buff that's a bit better. I know I stalk warburg quite a bit and I love to stop the launch. 2) More PvP SGs. Even if it's just in Freedom. I've been wondering if it would even be feazable to have my SG promote in the various zones as a PvP Group for a bit now, I've got a lot of good bennies so far (Ventrillo and the like) that would make a PvP group a bit more together, I just wonder if there would be any real call for something like that. Besides, teaming is cheating and cheating = wins. 3) NCSoft events in the PvP Zones could also be fun. Nothing major, just make it so that there is something like the Rikti raids or something like that there. Perhaps have it be a giant robot that each side is trying to take over... games really. 4) Let's just figure that Freedom is the PvP Server and get a group of us together and build up an Arena Tournament. Not just 1/1 3/3 5/5 fights, but Pokemon fights too... though tbh, I've never been in one of those... always been curious about 'em though. For the Tournament, I would be more than happy to sponsor something like that and I know I could probably even get a nice little pot for the winners of each division (Rare IOs or something). I actually kinda' like that one... we should do it! ---------- PS: I know that #1 is a neverhappen kinda' thing. Just wanted to throw it out to show that the devs could do something, but it's really up to us to encourage new PvP activity. |
They created pvp only rewards - they were called pvp ios. The carebears cried so much that they created a way to get them without ever having to pvp.
They had zone wide pvp events. I remember when Ex-Libris and Lighthouse as well as a few devs came to Siren's Call and RV on AV toons. You could actually team with the AV's in zone. It was so packed it was ridiculous.
The test ladder pre i12 days was pretty much the collusion of players and company. the pvpec, as much as people bagged on them, worked to organize a SG ladder, set rules, organize SG's to compete. Before that it was go to test, practice, maybe challange an sg to a match. That ladder had 12-14 full sgs of more than 8 players each.
There was a huge effort to gather the pvp wish list by Col Jas, Not Putzing and a few others. They talked to fight clubbers, sgs, zone players gathered all the info an presented it to TPTB. Not one mention of HD/TS/DR - or the gank code that they were going to impliment. All of that got gutted when we saw i13. Seriously people were like WTH? We told you what we wanted and you gave us this?
So yeah. Reading that line from Posi - it seems he left of "except for pvp - we just like to eff with them."
PvP is the red-headed step child nobody talks about.
I used to PVP 95% of the time before my multi-year hiatus. But even back then it was badly borked, albeit not as bad as i13. Honestly, this company has never really focused that much time/energy on PVP. The player population IN THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY thing PVP is "the debil" and as a company they have to cater to their paying customers. I wouldn't care about the handful (relative context) of players who ***** and moan about how bad PVP is because, for the most part, they are STILL PAYING CUSTOMERS as long as they have the right to post here. So until a huge majority of the population quits paying, the whines on here do nothing other than take up server space on the forums...and not much at that.
PVP is over....the Carebears kicked our ***** without ever even entering the Arena or Zones. They just outnumbered us. Minority status sucks but nothing you can do about it.
For teh lulz we should cry in this post till it is over 9000!!! How does the red headed step child get attention? Crying. Lets do more of that until we get SOMETHING. I'm only half serious here...
I remember in one of those ustream's a dev mentioned that pvp oriented missions would be fun. I agree! So lets see something! If that takes off and more people play, maybe they would be motivated to make more pvp balances and content. I dunno... but I like the energy of this post.
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If you think that you are convincing anyone by not referencing where you got your statistics from because you are:|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Edited for clarity.
Okay, obviously, if I'm posting in this thread, I'm here to rain on your little parade. The fact is, from the time that PvP was added to the game in May 2005's Issue Number 4: Colosseum, to the so called "PvP Disaster" that was Issue 13 in December 2008, the Player-Versus-Player population never rose above single digit percentages. One of the developers went so far as to once say that the Old-Hollows map, the pre-issue 12 version, averaged more player traffic... that is the number of unique players entering the zone... for each server... than all of the PvP open-area zones and arenas combined. The simple facts are these: The PvP player population in City of Heroes was never large enough to justify the resources that were spent to develop Issue 4. The PvP player population has never been a large, or profitable, part of the player-base. NCSoft nor Paragon Studios have any financial incentive to focus on PvP development for this game, City Of Heroes. Now, as far as I am aware, NCSoft's official policy is that they would like to drive PvP-oriented gamers to their Aion and Guild Wars franchises, which have been successful in attracting a wide-range of Player-versus-Player enthusiasts. My suspicion is that unless NCSoft has a fundamental shift in policy; for example an overwhelming financial incentive; to fund the development of player-versus-player content for City of Heroes, it is very likely that Player-versus-player development is effectively halted. Now, I get what you are trying to accomplish here. If you think that you are going to be successful in rallying other Player-versus-Player enthusiasts against Matt "Positron" Miller for a deliberate out-of-context quote that is framed to make a non-existent player faction seem more important than it was ever was... You are not. |
A.) Completely full of it.
B.) A lonely woman that has 24 cats to feed & 4 litterboxes to change (gross).
C.) All of the above
You are not.
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I will go with A only because I doubt they went to the trouble of even buying literboxes.
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Originally Posted by vindizzLe
If you think that you are convincing anyone by not referencing where you got your statistics from because you are:
A.) Completely full of it. B.) A lonely woman that has 24 cats to feed & 4 litterboxes to change (gross). C.) All of the above You are not. |
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
Probably doesn't help cases when I see a lot of PvPers going out of their way to instigate conflict, push buttons, harass, and call other folks that don't PvP "carebears" in threads talking about how the devs don't like PvP. All that aside, I agree, PvP is a part of this game and as such deserves at least some attention.
And wait, how did people get banned for mentioning doughnuts in Castle threads?
I had to laugh when I read this...
"One thing that I was making clear to everyone is that we needed to treat our subscribers, past as well as present, with the respect they deserve. I have seen what happens when an MMO decides that it needs "new blood" and doesn't care who they have to lose in order to get it. All that does is show your new customers that you have the power to change the rules whenever you feel like it, and the veteran customers left out in the cold become a lobbying force against new people wanting to try your game."