Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Positron
CLARIFICATION about Masterminds (and Controllers):
Zwill said that you can choose to unlock MM and Controllers with your Paragon Reward tokens. This is INCORRECT. MM and Controllers are automatically unlocked when you have accumulated enough Paragon Reward Tokens (for existing veterans it's around 3 years). You don't even need to spend these Reward tokens to get the unlock. Of course, you can always unlock them early by buying them on the Paragon Market. |
This is a little more palatable.
My concern was indeed that former VIPs would be put in a position of making a very expensive choice regarding their Veteran Rewards, when the AT's were never part of the veteran program in the first place.
The fact that a player would still have to "pay again" to unlock previously playable content with Paragon Points is probably not going to go down very well for some folks, but I'd rather see PPoints used than have it tied to the VRewards.
.
Quote:
|
Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
It may have gotten lost in the shuffle a page or two back, so I'll repeat my question without the fluff.
Question: Will it be possible to delete a character from a locked slot without first unlocking that slot?
The reason for this question is that a scenario could arise in which slots become "trapped" for a Premium player because they contain a locked AT. From Zwill's earlier post, we know they can't unlock the slot because of the AT, so they need to be able to delete the character in order to use a Slot Token on the slot.
This won't affect me personally, since I expect to continue subscribing and have more than enough years in regardless. It's just a technical issue that I hope has been addressed.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
Quote:
If that option ever became available, it ought to cost money. Otherwise, it is giving away one of the benefits of being a subscriber.
|
Originally Posted by Positron
* Is there a "reset my selections" option?
Not currently, other than the "within the same server" scenario above. This may be something we consider as a future feature if demand is high enough. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I just can not comprehend how anybody thinks they will be losing anything from this deal. Can you imagine a real life version of this?
The Freedom apartment complex has been renting out apartments for the past 7 years. These apartments come with a bedroom, a kitchenette, a bathroom and a central living space. They also come with access to a laundry room, workout room, cafeteria and games room with free games all open to tenants only.
Now Freedom Apartments undergoes a revamp. They add a swimming pool which is tenant use only. But they open their cafeteria and their free games room (containing such classics as Frogger and Mortal Kombat) to the general public. And they also make the announcement that if you have rented from them in the past you will also get access to the laundry room. Plus if you have lived there for at least 3 years you will also get access to the workout room. And anybody who eats at the cafeteria often enough can also earn access to the laundry and workout rooms.
The people who are complaining about what they are losing here are like somebody in the Freedom Apartments scenario complaining that they are planning on moving out but because they lived in the apartments for 5 years they should have access to the kitchenette and bedroom that were in their old apartment because they paid for it in the past and so deserve to have it now.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
Quote:
... WOO! REDNAME VINDICATION!!! |
Originally Posted by Positron
Finally, I am stealing Chad Guzlow-man's list because I love it so much:
|
Waitaminute... he spelled my name wrong!!!
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by CORE_NA
Let me try a slightly different example.
Mike and Bob both save their money and buy a retail box of City of Villains. Bob plays a Brute, Mike a Mastermind. They have a blast playing together and leveling up until the company they both work for goes belly up (Poor Bob and Mike). Bob and Mike can't play anymore. Paragon comes along later and says "That's cool. Ya'll can both come back for free. Plus when you can pay you can have even more fun!" Awesome of Paragon!! Bob logs in uses his Global Slot and unlocks his Brute. Smiling Bob is BACK! Bob tells Mike and Mike is now excited to play. Mike logs in, but his MM won't unlock..? He has to use points and then his Global Slot to play is toon. Bob is smiling, and is off to look for his Enzyte costume pack. Mike is still happy to play, but he wants some Enzyte too. |
Your still not looking at this right.
NOW - You pay your subscription and you can play. If you don't pay your subscription you can't play.
FREEDOM - You pay your subscription you can play. If you don't pay your subscription you can play most thing but not everything. If you want to play some of the nifty extra things you got to lay down some cash.
So the lesson is pay your subscription and you get it all. Don't pay it and you don't get everything.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
One question I'm concerned about with the easier access for people to create new accounts and new characters...how are free'ing up unused names going to be handled after this?
With anyone being able to create an unlimited number of accounts technically, create a couple new characters and taking up names, 'good' names could be taken up much more quickly and sat on.
I would assume VIPs won't ever get their names taken away. But will the free and premium players be able to create a character with a popular name, play for a month, then leave indefinitely and always hold that name away from the VIP players that may also what them.
Yes I know the term 'good name' is subjective and there are options for making misspellings or adding spaces or x's or whatever, but I don't see how it would be fair for paying VIP players, or currently active players free or VIP or premium, that they want the a name that's being used by a free player that played for a month and left never to return.
As a suggestion, maybe make it so characters on free accounts that haven't been accessed (the character, not the account) for 90 days, (and maybe premium for 180 days/ or a year), that name becomes available to be claimed by someone else. It doesn't immediately get generic-ed, but if someone else creates a character wanting that name, their's gets generic-ed at that point. So free player creates toon 'Super Cool Name'. They disappear or play another toon for over 90 days. 'Super Cool Name' is available to be claimed by anyone else. If no one does and they come back at 140 days, they still have 'Super Cool Name'. If another player (free, premium or VIP, whatever), though, comes in at 95 days, they can use Super Cool Name' and the free player's toon then gets a generic name.
Yes it will probably require more work for dev and its only a small issue now, however if we do get a large influx of new players or a large turnover for these new players, the name sitting could get really bad and unfair.
Quote:
It normally automagically stamps that I modded/edited something. I blame forum gremlins for it not doing so.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
I spent a lot of my grade school and high school years volunteering with disabled kids and adults. You may have found my word choice culturally offensive. It was. It was meant to be, as I find posts of that sentiment (which I was quoting) on these boards offensive. In my personal experience, however, the alternative word you substituted is more contextually offensive to me. I am editing my post to reflect that I did not say the word that you have placed in my mouth.
At the very least, you could have stamped that you had edited my post. |
Your sentiment is duly noted and should I have offended you, I sincerely apologize. Please let me know if there's a better way that you would liked to have phrased it.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Quote:
So if I am a VIP, drop to premium and unlock a new character slot to play a new character, when I go back to VIP I will be locked out of that new slot because I did not have it unlocked when I was a VIP?|
Originally Posted by Positron
* Does a VIP player get to reassign their slots if they dropped down to Premium (allowing them to choose what characters to play and what servers) and then goes back to VIP? Going back to VIP in this case will revert your slot assignments to what they were when you were last VIP. Characters over 12 on a server where you did not have slots will be locked. |
This just feels wrong. I understand it, and I don't see an easy answer unless you give VIPs the "reset all of my global slot unlocks" option at some interval, but I do see this could provide quite a bit of negative feedback when it happens unexpectedly to someone who PAYS to return to VIP status from premium.
Quote:
Some people think they are losing something, but those people are frankly lunatics.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
I just can not comprehend how anybody thinks they will be losing anything from this deal. Can you imagine a real life version of this?
|
More people seem to think they are not getting to keep what the devs said they could keep if they fall to Premium when Freedom launches, fully aware they don't get to keep that now. I'm much more sympathetic to that confusion because it is a new way of thinking about access rights to the game which the devs haven't really fully articulated the mindset of, although that sympathy extends primarily to attempting to clarify what the devs seem to be trying to say, not justify the results of what they are saying. The justification for what they are saying is that we're getting more than we do now under basically every possible scenario. Complaining about justification rather than explanation is looking a gift horse in the mouth.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
The best way I heard this described was by another player on these forums:|
Originally Posted by Greyhawke
So if I am a VIP, drop to premium and unlock a new character slot to play a new character, when I go back to VIP I will be locked out of that new slot because I did not have it unlocked when I was a VIP?
|
Think of VIP and Premium status as "Alternate Builds" for your characters, only they're alternate builds for your account instead.
(Not saying I agree with it, but it does make a certain amount of sense.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
This both clarifies many questions and eases many concerns I have. To update my own "entitlement mentality" - I believe the Clarification of MM's and Controllers is a fair deal, and am personally more then happy to abide by the actual rules. |
Originally Posted by Positron
Ok, still some confusion, I'll try and clear up some questions:
* What happens if you are Premium, assign slots, go VIP, then back to Premium? Currently, in this scenario you will be able to reassign your slots, but ONLY on the same server you assigned them to when you were Premium. * Is there a "reset my selections" option? Not currently, other than the "within the same server" scenario above. This may be something we consider as a future feature if demand is high enough. * Player makes a Free account, creates a character on Server A, finds out his friends are on Server B, is there a way to move slots? No, but in this scenario Player has two choices: Server transfer the character(s) (making them a Premium player in the process) or simply start another Free-level account (giving them 2 slots to assign to whatever server they wish). * Can a VIP player reassign their slots? No. * Does a VIP player get to reassign their slots if they dropped down to Premium (allowing them to choose what characters to play and what servers) and then goes back to VIP? Going back to VIP in this case will revert your slot assignments to what they were when you were last VIP. Characters over 12 on a server where you did not have slots will be locked. * What happens to characters that are NOT unlocked when I assign my slots? They are kept around, waiting to be unlocked. CLARIFICATION about Masterminds (and Controllers): Zwill said that you can choose to unlock MM and Controllers with your Paragon Reward tokens. This is INCORRECT. MM and Controllers are automatically unlocked when you have accumulated enough Paragon Reward Tokens (for existing veterans it's around 3 years). You don't even need to spend these Reward tokens to get the unlock. Of course, you can always unlock them early by buying them on the Paragon Market. Finally, I am stealing Chad Guzlow-man's list because I love it so much: If you are not paying for your account in City of Heroes Freedom, this is how many characters you'll have access to:
If you are paying your subscription come City of Heroes Freedom, this is how many characters you'll have access to:
|
I now take my leave from derailing the thread off Global Slots.
Posi - 1
Me - 0
Community - Have a pleasant day.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world
The kind that makes things happen
The kind that watch things happen
And then there are those of us who keep asking "WTH just happened!"
Quote:
Okay, different example and I still say your expectations are ridiculous and unreasonable. Instead of starting with what they had access to when they were paying a subscription, start from the opposite situation. Currently, if your subscription lapses, you have NOTHING. Anything over that is an improvement.|
Originally Posted by CORE_NA
Let me try a slightly different example.
Mike and Bob both save their money and buy a retail box of City of Villains. Bob plays a Brute, Mike a Mastermind. They have a blast playing together and leveling up until the company they both work for goes belly up (Poor Bob and Mike). Bob and Mike can't play anymore. Paragon comes along later and says "That's cool. Ya'll can both come back for free. Plus when you can pay you can have even more fun!" Awesome of Paragon!! Bob logs in uses his Global Slot and unlocks his Brute. Smiling Bob is BACK! Bob tells Mike and Mike is now excited to play. Mike logs in, but his MM won't unlock..? He has to use points and then his Global Slot to play is toon. Bob is smiling, and is off to look for his Enzyte costume pack. Mike is still happy to play, but he wants some Enzyte too. |
Furthermore, there are valid software/hardware reasons for specifically restricting controllers and masterminds - the pets cause a performance hit for everyone nearby.
Let me summarize:
If you are paying now, and continue to pay under the new system, you lose nothing and gain some stuff. Win.
If you are paying now and let your subscription lapse, you can't play your characters at all. Under the new system, you will be able to play some characters and have other restrictions. But you get MORE than you currently get - a lot more. Win.
Anyone complaining that they don't get enough stuff for free as a non-paying customer has an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Currently, non-payers get nothing.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Now I could be really, really wrong, but I think a lot of Premium/historic players are looking at it like this:
Buying City of Heroes is like buying a car. You've got it, it's yours. You can't do anything with it unless you put gas in it--pay your monthly sub. They upgrade and modify the car in all sorts of ways, City of Villains, Going Rogue, various perks, etc. They may quit and rejoin, periodically--but always with the understanding that once they put some gas in the car, they can go wherever they want to go.
And in the whole MM controversy, it's like someone told them, "Here, have free gas! Forever!" And when they get in the car, they find it doesn't have any wheels anymore.
The crux of the issue is explaining the sacrifices/cost of going Premium instead of VIP, as well as recognizing that you're/we're not going to make everybody happy. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm just trying to encourage respectful dialogue while waiting for more information.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Quote:
That is how they look at it but it isn't how any online game has ever worked. Buying the game and paying your monthly subscription has only given you access. Much like a monthly lease on something.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Now I could be really, really wrong, but I think a lot of Premium/historic players are looking at it like this:
Buying City of Heroes is like buying a car. You've got it, it's yours. You can't do anything with it unless you put gas in it--pay your monthly sub. They upgrade and modify the car in all sorts of ways, City of Villains, Going Rogue, various perks, etc. They may quit and rejoin, periodically--but always with the understanding that once they put some gas in the car, they can go wherever they want to go. And in the whole MM controversy, it's like someone told them, "Here, have free gas! Forever!" And when they get in the car, they find it doesn't have any wheels anymore. The crux of the issue is explaining the sacrifices/cost of going Premium instead of VIP, as well as recognizing that you're/we're not going to make everybody happy. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm just trying to encourage respectful dialogue while waiting for more information. |
The problem is that they haven't bought anything concrete but think that they have.
You are right that it is a conflict of vision in how things really work versus how they perceive it to work. And this conflict comes up every single time a game changes. Lots of people claiming rights based on the fact that they bought the game versus people comfortably telling them that no. They clearly have only purchased access and the owner [Paragon Studios] has every right to make what ever changes they want to.
Just look back every issue since issue 0 and you will see this conflict expectations appear.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Quote:
Why do so many of these examples always make the product unusable? It is not like they found out it doesn't have wheels anymore. It is like they found out it doesn't have a radio/CD player. It is like they found out it had no air conditioning. It might go so far as to be like they found out it was a manual instead of automatic.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Now I could be really, really wrong, but I think a lot of Premium/historic players are looking at it like this:
Buying City of Heroes is like buying a car. You've got it, it's yours. You can't do anything with it unless you put gas in it--pay your monthly sub. They upgrade and modify the car in all sorts of ways, City of Villains, Going Rogue, various perks, etc. They may quit and rejoin, periodically--but always with the understanding that once they put some gas in the car, they can go wherever they want to go. And in the whole MM controversy, it's like someone told them, "Here, have free gas! Forever!" And when they get in the car, they find it doesn't have any wheels anymore. The crux of the issue is explaining the sacrifices/cost of going Premium instead of VIP, as well as recognizing that you're/we're not going to make everybody happy. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm just trying to encourage respectful dialogue while waiting for more information. |
The car still works fine and you get your free gas and can drive around.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Yes, a lot of people do seem to be following that train of thought. It is, however, very plainly a sense of entitlement. They think they are owed something or should receive something that was never promised or offered.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Now I could be really, really wrong, but I think a lot of Premium/historic players are looking at it like this:
|
They just need to realign their expectations. Under the current system, if you stop paying, you have nothing. Under the new system, you can stop paying and still have SOMETHING. This is an improvement. Any dissatisfaction is a result of unreasonable/unrealistic expectations.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Oh, I completely agree with you. The only thing the game is "losing" is the crappy free trial. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
This is an improvement.
|
The trick is what the dev's have been balancing for the past year+...trying to find the demarcation line between Premium and VIP.
EDIT: And doesn't it boil down to the folks on the boards (coincidentally, active players and thus now VIPs) vs. irregular players and folks off the boards (coincidentally, the potential Premium audience)? It's no wonder we don't see eye to eye. It's no wonder people on the inside are saying "less" and people on the outside are saying "more."
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Quote:
That is certainly how many people THINK it works, but (as I suspect you know), that's wrong.|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Now I could be really, really wrong, but I think a lot of Premium/historic players are looking at it like this:
Buying City of Heroes is like buying a car. You've got it, it's yours. You can't do anything with it unless you put gas in it--pay your monthly sub. They upgrade and modify the car in all sorts of ways, City of Villains, Going Rogue, various perks, etc. They may quit and rejoin, periodically--but always with the understanding that once they put some gas in the car, they can go wherever they want to go. And in the whole MM controversy, it's like someone told them, "Here, have free gas! Forever!" And when they get in the car, they find it doesn't have any wheels anymore. |
Subscribing City of Heroes is actually like RENTING a car (with the gas being, like, your internet subscription or something). Now, with CoH Freedom, they're saying, "Y'know what, everybody gets free cars and drive them as much as they want, but they don't have to even pay us anymore! The only difference is, the free car is a one-seater and doesn't have a trunk, and isn't allowed to drive on certain roads. If you want to add more seats or a trunk or drive on the newest roads, you have to pay us a new one-time fee for it.
"Or, you can just keep renting your existing car at the same price, get access to most (if not all) of the newest roads, and we'll even throw in some custom decals and other bonuses to make it worth your while."
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
City of Heroes isn't really like any car, because its normally not the case that a car comes with independently accessible components.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
That is certainly how many people THINK it works, but (as I suspect you know), that's wrong.
Subscribing City of Heroes is actually like RENTING a car (with the gas being, like, your internet subscription or something). Now, with CoH Freedom, they're saying, "Y'know what, everybody gets free cars and drive them as much as they want, but they don't have to even pay us anymore! The only difference is, the free car is a one-seater and doesn't have a trunk, and isn't allowed to drive on certain roads. If you want to add more seats or a trunk or drive on the newest roads, you have to pay us a new one-time fee for it. "Or, you can just keep renting your existing car at the same price, and we'll throw in some custom decals and other bonuses." |
Its more like a gym you have a membership to. This membership gives you access to everything at the gym. Then one day they add a VIP section to the gym with special equipment, and to use it you have to upgrade your membership for a one time fee.
Then one day they decide to allow anyone to come in and use a subset of the gym for free, without a membership. But that free section is limited to just a few things in the corner. At this point, if a VIP member decides to stop paying for their membership, its unreasonable to expect that they would have access to the free corner *and* the VIP section because they "paid for it." What they paid was to upgrade their membership. They still needed to continue actually paying their membership to access the VIP section. They didn't buy a permanent pass to the VIP section, they bought an upgrade of their membership. A membership they terminated when they stopped paying. Which made them no longer a member, and no longer able to access membership rights.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
So... Masterminds, Controllers and EATs would be like the rock climbing wall and the swimming pool. If you don't pay your gym fees, you could come run on the treadmill, ride the exercise bike, hit the free weights or use the rowing machine... but you can't climb the rock wall or swim in the pool without an arm band. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its more like a gym you have a membership to.
|
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Okay, need to cut and paste that gym analogy to some neighboring websites. Nicely put.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Quote:
Masterminds would be a bank of Dance Dance Revolution arcade games that were very loud and bright, and shorted out the building's power when more than six people used them.
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
So... Masterminds, Controllers and EATs would be like the rock climbing wall and the swimming pool. If you don't pay your gym fees, you could come run on the treadmill, ride the exercise bike, hit the free weights or use the rowing machine... but you can't climb the rock wall or swim in the pool without an arm band.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
DDR machines? I think I wanna join this gym!
(That's probably the best way I've ever seen MMs put in reference to their drag on server processing.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Make them want to come back.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios