How bad is Gravity?

Also, since Grav gives has a so many skippable powers, your can snatch up and slot your high damage secondary. You'll be like a blaster with reliable holds!

Grav/Earth Assault and Grav/Fiery being my favorites.

Yea, the beta server. I poked in to look at the Steampunk Pack and I made a Grav/Fire and some other things to 50 just to test them out.

I dont know why we cant just get to 50 automatically on the test server... why do I want to test a level 1-10 Grav/Fire Dom...sheesh

I loves Grav/Fire at 50 and I worked on a Grav/Stone before I got bored.

My Grav/Fire is recolored to look like he uses ghost bolts and Will-o-Wisp...Pyrogeist.

I've played all the control sets to 50 with the exception of Electric (I'll get to it). Gravity to me was the least enjoyable of them all. While Dimension Shift is certainly a sore spot in the set, I also had trouble with its bread and butter control: Wormhole. It has a full 3 sec animation vs. 2.3 and 2.1 secs in Stalagmites and Flashfire. It also has a significantly smaller radius, 15 feet vs 25 feet. There's also a very brief, .75 sec, intangible after the teleport, which usually goes unnoticed. Frankly, I think it needs its activation shortened, its radius increased, and the intangible moved to the beginning of the power rather than after the teleport in order to prevent enemies from firing back. Oh, and it would be nice to get the power at level 12 when other control sets are getting reliable AoE.

I will admit Singularity is a very nice pet, but the rest of the set needs touching up. Until it gets some attention, I won't be rolling another.

I'm sure a Grav slotted heavily for hold duration on Singy and Gravity Distortion, and permadom can break purple triangles. Mag 50 is what you need, it shouldn't be too hard to pull off with the right build.

I'll start out saying that I love Gravity*.... but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selenir "Gravity is the worst Dominator primary,"

Is in fact entirely true. (Edit add:In My Opinion)

It is flat out the worst primary for Doms. Gravity trades control for single target damage in the same way Fire trades control for AoE damage. The problem with that is twofold, 1) As a whole CoH values AoE damage SIGNIFICANTLY higher than single target and 2) Doms, unlike Controllers, get an entire secondary dedicated to (mostly single target) damage, so the very thing that Gravity trades it's control for, Dom's don't even need/can do better anyhow.

That said, if you enjoy it, screw the numbers. Play it anyhow.


*(As a theme. I'm repeatedly disappointed with it's actual performance/implementation, though. [Repeatedly because I'm still trying to find some combination of powersets/slotting/pools/IO bonuses/whatever to make me like playing it.])

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

Oath, if you haven't tried Grav/Energy, I think it's the best of the Grav dom builds. /Energy gets power boost, which is a great way of beefing up the weakish control of Gravity. With my build, I've got Gravity Distortion Field recharging in 65 seconds, and power boost pushes its duration to 35 seconds. The soft control that energy's knockback offers also helps out with keeping you and your team from taking damage, and the stuns from Bone Smasher and Total focus stack nicely with wormhole.

In playstyle, she's a single target specialist, playing like an Ice Blaster on PCP. Let your teammates AOE the scrubs, your job is to neuter and kill tough mobs.

I just rolled a grav/psi myself and am glad to see this thread. I think that what's gonna make this set sing is the secondary. lots of -rech, heal, endo, small stun, kb. The set is what sold it for me, not just looking at the primary for control/damage mitigation.
It won't be an uber build, but who really cares? As long as you can get in there and kick some butt, it's all good.

Here's my initial thoughts on a final build for him.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Mind Probe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Telekinetic Thrust -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 6: Gravity Distortion -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(11), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(13)
Level 8: Crushing Field -- Posi-Dmg/Rchg(A), Posi-Dam%(13), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Posi-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 10: Mental Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 12: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 14: Tough -- RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 16: Psychic Scream -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(19), Posi-Dam%(19)
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(21), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(27), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(27), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(29)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Wormhole -- Amaze-Stun/Rchg(A), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(31), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(33), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(33), Amaze-Stun(33)
Level 28: Subdue -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Fly -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Singularity -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(36), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), BldM'dt-Acc(37), BldM'dt-Dmg(37)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(39), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Erad-%Dam(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), Krma-ResKB(42)
Level 44: Personal Force Field -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Disruptor Blast -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 12.5% Defense(Smashing)
• 12.5% Defense(Lethal)
• 3.75% Defense(Fire)
• 3.75% Defense(Cold)
• 20% Defense(Energy)
• 20% Defense(Negative)
• 6.25% Defense(Melee)
• 12.8% Defense(Ranged)
• 4.69% Defense(AoE)
• 1.8% Max End
• 75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 42% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 145 HP (14.3%) HitPoints
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Immobilize) 9.35%
• MezResist(Stun) 1.65%
• 25.5% (0.43 End/sec) Recovery
• 52% (2.2 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 7.25% Resistance(Fire)
• 7.25% Resistance(Cold)

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1379;641;1282;HEX;|
|78DA6594CB6ED3401486C771D234379290F446DBB47128BD2735658F500B0848AA4|
|025B695955AA9A5D4AE6C83E88E252C80270016C013707D106E4FC0027A61C92E1C|
|9F7F9AA6B295E49B39F3CF99FF8C67D278B49E16E2F155A164D73A86E76DAD3BBB9|
|66DF88E1B6B186DAB25E24288722FB8B5E6D8BEEB74AA375DE3A1E5EF9FF4FB14D7|
|3CCF78D0F1AB4DCF726CAB75D2CFDFB2774CD7B4FDEA4923D37428D10DABBDE35B7|
|63B855E27E866B95D378D6DD3F576ACBD24F737F74C737BFCFA9ED5AA9EAED6305A|
|26FD78BEE9EE8F92D519FA2EA9423EDD887849D045E415F09A110F0B96215886609|
|0040A04AAD22468227A17B8C718D8642448A74A9D0ADD007483D00D42B74CA298D4|
|C5BE45849814C91FC04F46FA2BA346BA3874D1F847B692FEC298FDC058F80CBC672|
|4499E90752450C7D2993A144A9692EBA6E06F01FE6AF0A7C39F4ABA8C025D669A1A|
|B3E29C069418C53223450B66A5BF2C3CE4602C07B7E73F0130AD933C2FE57954584|
|4F513DF19256C426911A592BCC0FBDE8D150A6A101A2D02CF23012E3C035E302686|
|792C4ADE87E03D32143474315C04728C040946201023105CA69963D2D8D81DCE56D|
|A604CD78106709B9121F9B8DCE7F137ECB5FC1678C748C58332B0C4649943AB3467|
|0AA1D8D46F88FF302A078C8B87C01170CCC853224D16A3C16B05C554504C56C5190|
|FD2CED83CE79203EC0207BCA5B387C011E309CD9A93EF770E69E791761E69E7FF89|
|40F78BFE0B1665A18BD02DE5810243237F55E9AF8AB7563B83A7B4D28ACCB08213A|
|2E384E8382113D1DEDDA30F3D423B8D741742A32BA1881E8AAC86225742917A28D2|
|8CF62EB9503892C8F5AE73F73049A34AFFE8717FE43E6FC75148F4B73F32CD15FF0|
|76293EAA4|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

GRAVITY IS FINE

*laugh track*

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

I'll echo most of the sentiments here, it just doesn't transcribe well to Doms, but in general it has alot of problems that everyone else has already pointed out.

When I suffer myself to play this set, I do it for Propel and Singularity... (and yes the occasional 'Raining Men' moments with wormhole as someone mentioned, but on grey cons)

the fact that bosses are immune to the teleport with no way to change the magnitude is a whole issue with that... CoH loves AoE as has been said, so why forcably split the group?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoodooGirl [*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

I would have no complaints with Gravity if Wormhole were made better.

Right now it has a serious problem because it aggroes the mobs the instant you start activating it, but it takes more than three (!) seconds to activate it, giving the mobs you're targeting plenty of time to turn around and shoot you, or even run up to you and use melee attacks.

You can target mobs you can't see using the power (select the target and then move out of view), by which you can ameliorate some of the problems with aggro by hiding behind geometry on the map. But the range isn't long enough to make this work on many maps, especially big open ones with no walls or other obstructions. It also takes a long time to find an appropriate place to stand while teleporting, and an appropriate target location where you put them. Which makes using the power with a team a waste of time.

Then the knockback will also scatter mobs if you don't have a good place to put them (like a corner). If the team is already engaged, it's not really good form to teleport all the mobs away from them in most circumstances.

These problems make this power usable only rarely. Wormhole is similar to Fire's Flashfire or Earth's Stalagmites, but it is much less useful even though it's higher level.

It's got too many gimmicks associated with it, and the value the dev's perceive the teleport capability to have does not counterbalance all the downsides of the slow activation, the knockback and the fact that teleporting entire spawns away is almost never what the rest of the team wants.

Right on. I for one would LOVE to see a change. I doubt many would complain about re-doing the entire set. It's not like you can really Proc it out anyway. Gravity would be my favorite control set if it wasn't for it's many issues.

I think the problem with gravity is the tittle of the set is very misleading
when u think of a character that can control the forces of gravity
you expect to be godly when that is not the case at all
gravity plays more like telekenisis you dont get the feel of controlling gravity at all and worm hole ..... that is a very frustrating power IMO
i can tp mobs that scatter every where but the bosses stay put ,
even when im in domination. the one power i enjoy in the whole set is the power every one says skip lol " Propel" i luv throwin forklifts and what not.
the way to fix this set i think would be to (A) make propel a target aoe becase how do u throw a forklift or a car at a group an only hit one guy ?
and (B) take the kb off of worm hole

Gravity killed my father.

And ***** my mother.

I've had a 50 Grav/Energy for many years now. I think that Gravity is quirky and not for everyone. I enjoy it immensely.

Wormhole is gimmicky because:
(1) The knockback can strike, even if you try to mitigate it by where you position things.
(2) Since the teleport often only gets part of a spawn, you often make the problem worse on teams as they previously had one spawn location but now have 2 because you only teleported half of them.

That said, I really wouldn't change gravity for all of the world. I like wormhole and don't want it changed. You have to embrace the knockback in the set IMO. You have it in wormhole, which is your "go to, reliable, up every spawn control power," so you HAVE to get used to it. Singularity also knocks back.

Having an AOE immob without -kb isn't all bad as you can immob groups and they will stay on an ice slick, for example, but still pop up and down. I'm sure some people rely on this, and that is reason enough not to change this function.

Just don't sweat it, I think, and realize that a little knockback isn't going to kill anyone in real life. If you are the sort that is annoyed by knockback, don't play the set. If you are the sort who will let loose a tornado when a team is close to wiping, because you know the extra chaos might help, you will probably like gravity.

I think it is enjoyable. I recently rejoined after a couple years absence, so no incarnate abilities at all yet. My Grav/Energy is an all-ranged attacks (because I just want the knockback--I had this for concept reasons even before they buffed the ranged attacks in energy) hasten-less permadom with 41%-ish smashing/lethal defense as well as aid self and can certainly take care of herself. I do remember in teams levelling up years ago though when I didn't have permadom or all that defense that I would stand in the singularity when the team was close to wiping and watch in glee as it knocked purple enemies away from me and I further blasted them as they skipped and tumbled away from me.

In teaming, you have to gauge the team and its needs. Often discretion is the better part of valor and you should just wormhole the spawn straight down or into a nearby wall so it stays put. Sometimes, you shouldn't wormhole at all.

I think it is the differences of sets that make them exciting though. We already have plenty of cookie-cutter control power sets. If you want a gravity theme but want a more traditional set, well, there is nothing stopping you. Just go ahead and take a traditional one and re-color the powers and pretend you are controlling gravity. Having actual options is nice, and I like gravity. The beauty of games like this are that different powersets have all sorts of fun little quirks and in the end these come to be the things you really enjoy.

Okay after some days of consideration and reading I've thought about the following improvements to Gravity; tell me your thoughts!

Wormhole
Wormhole's area of effect should be brought up to the 25' radius that other mass mez powers get and it should receive another 10-20' of range. The animation time is a pain but I think it's a good tradeoff for the AoE teleport in addition to the stun. The fact that it causes aggression before resolving is a drawback but, IMO, is made up for by the fact that Wormhole doesn't require line of sight. However on some maps its short range means that it's hard to use the map geometry to not get yourself killed, hence the increased range proposal.

Propel
Propel just plain takes too long to cast. I'm told that for Controllers you can get better damage over time by stacking Crush anyway, and for Dominators you have an entire secondary devoted to single-target damage.

Dimension Shift
We have a little bit more leeway in changing Dimension Shift because there are exactly zero IO sets that can be slotted. However if we want to maintain the flavor of Gravity by giving it an intangible power, I propose one of two things:
a) Leave it as it is but make the effect end when the target is attacked. This is basically the same as sleep except that the targets can still run around and be annoying without actually attacking. I'm not a huge fan of this, or variations where it's combined with an immobilize, or where it repeats every so often like Electricity Control's Static Field (where it's actually better because people can't walk out of Dimension Shift)
or
b) Make it a single-target intangible, increasing the accuracy in the process and optionally having a longer duration (although 30 seconds is pretty good, and according to the wiki, not affected by enhancements).

I am a fan of the latter for the following reasons:
a) it follows Gravity Control's trend of having "weak" or "gimmicky" (wormhole) multiple-target control and particularly strong single-target control.
b) As apparently Intangible is not resisted by anything it would make Gravity Control especially useful in situations where you would want to remove a single, extremely dangerous target from the fight so you could mop up their underlings, which is difficult to do.
c) Mass Intangibility is going to be annoying any way you slice it, unless you alter it to the point where it behaves like a different effect, and this solution preserves the flavor of intangibility ("you can't attack it and it can't attack you either") while making it actually useful, although still probably a niche power.
d) As an extra bonus plus, making Dimension Shift useful in a way that doesn't require a lot of slots will mean that people will have to minimally change their builds in order to make use of it.

Thoughts?

1. Increase Wormhole's radius from 15' to 20'.

2. Change Dimension Shift completly. They changed Repel Aura in Stalker's Energy Aura set to Stun Aura, so I am pretty sure they can come up something better than a confusing aoe intangible power.

We already have one useless Propel on Dominator. Hopefully they can do something with Dimension Shift. And while we are at it, change DS and Wormhole order.

-QR-





I love Gravity Control. It's so bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

The main problem is Wormhole. Fix that and Gravity will be vastly improved.
Increase radius of effect, decrease animation time of Wormhole. If need be, increase endurance cost to compensate.

A change that people have been suggesting which I like:
Make Lift AoE. You can change the recharge, acc, end cost to compensate. This gives Gravity a kind of AoE until 26 (29 to slot up Wormhole)

I don't mind keeping Dimension Shift as is. One day devs will come up with content to make it useful! I hope!

It's not hard to improve Gravity. But it hasn't been done even though players have been giving these suggestions for ages. Maybe when tons of people make gravity/time control controllers in I21, they will make a fuss so that the devs finally do something.