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In that case, the power to change to an AOE is Propel. I mean, seriously, when I huck a forklift, or a pool table, or a telephone pole at a tightly-packed group of... let's say three to five guys, why in heaven's name does it only hit one of them?
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
The new Powers team seem to be inclined towards thinking the Cottage Rule is only a guideline. Some of the upcoming changes to Energy Aura seem to break it.
You could also leave the sets it takes alone, Lightning Storm fires bolts which are technically AOE, but takes single target sets rather than the Targetted AOE ones. |
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It's inescapable in my experience. I stay firmly planted on the ground consistently, despite my best efforts.
| How bad is Gravity? |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
AoE Propel would be pretty good cause then it would take Positron's Blast which I'd way prefer to use than any of the non-purple IO sets for single-target ranged damage 
Personally I think lift is pretty good where it is and would have to be rebalanced considerably if it were an AoE... the damage would probably have to be reduced to compensate.
Still really think that making Dimension Shift into a single-target intangible would be a quick, easy, and very useful and appropriate change >>
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i loled
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's inescapable in my experience. I stay firmly planted on the ground consistently, despite my best efforts.
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"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
I had some ideas for a major overhaul without actually changing the idea behind the set. A new debuff called Anti-Gravity is introduced which is added to several powers.
Crush - The same except has resistance to knockback and knockup.
Lift - The same.
Gravity Distortion - The same, except weakens the target's knockup resistance.
Propel - Quicker animation, small AoE splash damage.
Crushing Field - Location AoE immobilise and slow, staying true to its "Field" name. The field effect would look like a larger version of the Crush effect. Has resistance to knockback and knockup.
Dimension Shift - PBAoE toggle of foe intangibility and afraid. Same radius as Hot Feet. Idea is that things run close to you, phase and then run away to escape the wacky dimensions. Phased enemies go nearly transparent and are given the Distortion effect until they leave the radius and are then unphased.
Gravity Distortion Field - Location AoE hold and slow, again with the "Field" name. Also weakens the knockup resistance of everything effected by the field, even if not held.
Wormhole - Faster animation, doesn't notify until the stun/knockback is applied. Field effect looks like the current Distortion effect.
Singularity - The same as it is now except it can create a couple of small Singularities that are immobile, don't last long and don't do anything except Repel.
What this does is make the set have control over space, both conceptually and in the reality of the game itself. It can control where things are with Wormhole, it can control things close to it with Dimension Shift, it can control two areas at once with long lasting Field powers similar to Volcanic Gasses, and finally its pet is able to block areas off with Repel-like effects.
Someone on the dev team should turn on Avengers season one and watch the Graviton fight....
Scrap the whole set and start again from there...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Bah, I still like my suggestion thread ideas for Gravity: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=216367
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Is there any way to aim the wormhole exit above itself? I would roll up a Grav just to see the loop. I would do this until my teammates call for the men in white coats.
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Originally Posted by Starflier
The obvious choice for aiming Wormhole is straight up and then to run around shouting "It's raining men!" while your teammates call for the men in white coats.
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You can't add KB resist to gravities immobilizes now. What about Grav/Storm or Grav/TA controllers who are counting on freezing rain or oil slick to make things get knocked up while also immob'd under crushing field. What about Grav/ dominators who team with a brute with foot stomp? It is too drastic of a change. If you don't like it, don't play Grav/ doms. Some people like them the way they are.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
Crush - The same except has resistance to knockback and knockup.
Lift - The same. Crushing Field - Location AoE immobilise and slow, staying true to its "Field" name. The field effect would look like a larger version of the Crush effect. Has resistance to knockback and knockup. |
About the only change suggested in this thread that I could get behind would be the increased target #s and decreased animation time for wormhole, or also adding an AOE effect to propel. Most of the other suggestions just change the set too drastically.
Honestly, if you want a cookie-cutter control set, play one of the other ones...
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
"Creates a localized gravitational field strong enough to Immobilize a single target. Crush can also bring down flying entities."
So it brings down fliers using strong gravity, which also makes them unable to move... Gravity so strong that it crushes the target... Yet you can still throw them around? To me that doesn't make any sense. Knockback/up resistance is something that just can't be won with - makes some powers useless if you have it, annoys a lot of people if you don't. There's no in between.
Also, you know what they say about assumptions. I like Gravity. The first character I ever made was a Gravity controller so the set has a special place in my heart. I just wish it was better and more unique. The set has four powers that stand out - Propel for being slow, Dimension Shift for being terrible, Wormhole for being fun but flawed and Singularity which I adore. I'd rather it was better.
I've made several Controllers and Dominators using every primary control set at least twice and whilst I do like Gravity, having played other sets like Electric, Mind, Earth and Plant it's very lacking. I've even taken Ice Control to 50 twice whilst I have a Gravity/Energy Dominator stuck around level 30 because it feels so helpless with only one semi-reliable hard control that's up relatively often.
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I really wish the previous dev team wasn't that loyal to "cottage rule" because some powers just don't fit certain AT. |
Originally Posted by FlashToo
Wouldn't that change what sets could be slotted? I thought changing something from ST damage to AoE damage would break the Cottage Rule, because of that.
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In fact, they made a cottage rule change on Blaster's Dark Blast. The current Dark Blast on Corr/Defender don't have Aim but in order for Dark Blast to fit Blaster's need, they made two major changes. One is to add Aim and one is to combine aoe knockback with nightfall. They could have just ported the exact same version of Dark Blast to Blaster and hear them complain. :P Why should Dominator not complain about certain powers in certain set that just doesn't make sense. Propel is one of them.
Now looking at Propel, Dominator does NOT need Propel. It has such awful activation time and the damage is only "meh". Propel makes some sense for Controller who doesn't have a legit attack until epic.
They also changed Stalker's Energy Aura greatly. They changed Repel Aura to Stun Aura and Energy Drain to something like Energize (heal + endurance efficiency).
I can argue that Propel is mostly used for knock back so making it a Knock Up isn't completely changing the core purpose of the power. They can make it Group Lift but with much longer recharge (24s).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
They changed Conserve Power to Energize, not Energy Drain. They did remove the heal from Energy Drain, though, and are replacing it with a scaling defense buff... <3
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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The flavor text doesn't make sense on a lot of powers. It can all easily be explained by more pseudo-science though so I think it is irrelevant...It creates a localized gravitational field strong enough to counteract the movement of a specific target. It's localized nature means it is strong enough completely to negate voluntary movement for that target, while still leaving them at the whim of gravity in general, so that they can fly off while still being unable to move themselves. That is, the localized gravitational force just makes them unable to move their own legs but they are still the b**ch of everyone else.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
"Creates a localized gravitational field strong enough to Immobilize a single target. Crush can also bring down flying entities."
... Yet you can still throw them around? ... To me that doesn't make any sense. ... I like Gravity. ... I just wish it was better and more unique. ... I have a Gravity/Energy Dominator stuck around level 30 because it feels so helpless with only one semi-reliable hard control that's up relatively often. |
The important things is that immobs that do not apply KB resist DO have a point in the game with ice slicks and KB powers etc. For someone who want to make gravity "more unique", why on earth are you trying to make its immobs identical to all of the other control set ones?
As far as Grav/NRG, see my list of chars below. I think you just have to enjoy the knockback when you play the set. If you don't, it is probably not for you. The flip side of this though is that your list of changes is very likely to annoy people who chose gravity for precisely the reason that it was different.
(Edit: For the record, I leveled Luck years ago without any AE and just by playing through normal missions in normal teams. Luck was not power leveled at all, even for half a level or whatever. I did solo 45-50 though doing Warburg missions on the hardest difficulty, because that seemed like the easiest xp at the time, but there was a fair amount of normal team play in the character.)
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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Oh which is even better!
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
They changed Conserve Power to Energize, not Energy Drain. They did remove the heal from Energy Drain, though, and are replacing it with a scaling defense buff... <3
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
The OP mentioned they were thinking of taking the Psionic Mastery APP at a later level, and after briefly looking over some of the powers it definitely seems like a slightly more control-focused APP. How dramatic an improvement in control would taking a power like "World of Confusion" be?
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It's radius is only 8 and it is just mag 2, but you might like it.
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Originally Posted by Chairman Moth
The OP mentioned they were thinking of taking the Psionic Mastery APP at a later level, and after briefly looking over some of the powers it definitely seems like a slightly more control-focused APP. How dramatic an improvement in control would taking a power like "World of Confusion" be?
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"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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That's right. We just don't get you.
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Originally Posted by _Ail_
Honestly, if you want a cookie-cutter control set, play one of the other ones...
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Cottage Rule only applies in terms of affecting existing characters. There are no existing Dark Blasters so when Proliferating the set there's no Cottage Rule violation if you change the powers around a bit. Je Saist gave a good rule of thumb elsewhere, if the change means characters slottings become invalid or ineffective then it's probably violating the cottage rule.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
I really wish the previous dev team wasn't that loyal to "cottage rule" because some powers just don't fit certain AT.
In fact, they made a cottage rule change on Blaster's Dark Blast. The current Dark Blast on Corr/Defender don't have Aim but in order for Dark Blast to fit Blaster's need, they made two major changes. One is to add Aim and one is to combine aoe knockback with nightfall. They could have just ported the exact same version of Dark Blast to Blaster and hear them complain. :P Why should Dominator not complain about certain powers in certain set that just doesn't make sense. Propel is one of them. |
Mind you I kinda agree that the Cottage Rule should just be a strong guideline and if a power needs to be changed in order to bring a set up to par then it should be broken.
You could add a small AOE effect to Propel (and/or Lift) and just leave the enhancement sets they can take alone, Lightning Storm already does this.
You could improve Wormhole easily without violating it.
Dimension Shift is the tricky one, but it is also one power which, thanks to its nature and the sets / enhancements it can take (or lack thereof) you could more easily get away with breaking or severely bending the cottage rule for.
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Doesn't it? If you're using Lift, which is probably where most of the knockup on a team comes from if there's Gravity Control involved, you're just continuing to control gravity and overriding the effects of your own powers with more of your own powers, which makes sense to me. If you happen to have someone else with a knockup power (PsiNado, etc), say you've got fine enough control over your own powers to allow them to use theirs effectively and the problem goes away. |
Originally Posted by Snowzone
So it brings down fliers using strong gravity, which also makes them unable to move... Gravity so strong that it crushes the target... Yet you can still throw them around? To me that doesn't make any sense.
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If you're knocking them back, rather than up, that's still makes sense when the immob is supposed to com from the target not being strong enough to fight your gravity with his own leg muscles. A knockback is a brief, strong burst of force along a different vector, which realistically should still move a target horizontally for some distance.
And as for knocking something down, well, it'd be flatly ridiculous for Crush to prevent THAT.
You know what doesn't make sense to me in terms of immobs granting -KB? Electric Control... since when is superheated plasma so solid a wall that you can't even be forced through it? It makes sense for Earth and Plant control to physically attach foes to the floor, and it intuitively if not mechanically does for Ice as well (having powers that negate your own Ice Slick is more than a little stupid, so it's definitely a good thing that the immobs don't actually behave that way), but Electric Fences leave me scratching my head.
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying that Ice Control's Immobs don't cause -KB. If so, when did that change? Or am I going completely crazy and misremembering things again?|
Originally Posted by FlashToo
*snip*It makes sense for Earth and Plant control to physically attach foes to the floor, and it intuitively if not mechanically does for Ice as well (having powers that negate your own Ice Slick is more than a little stupid, so it's definitely a good thing that the immobs don't actually behave that way), but Electric Fences leave me scratching my head.
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Edit: Does anyone know if it's possible for the game engine to do a pull effect? I guess a negative repel would be the best way to describe it. I was just thinking a power that worked like Telekinesis from Mind Control but in reverse so actually gathering nearby mobs around the one you targeted would be a nice set-defining power and in keeping with Gravity's concept.
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I'm sorry if I was sounding too strident.|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
That's right. We just don't get you.
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It is just that one of the really nice things aboout CoX is the diversity among character builds. I think it compares very favorably to, for example, CO where in my opinion (have not done the free-to-play there so this might have changed things) there were really essentially only about 3 builds despite all of the supposed variety the system offered. CoX has genuine diversity in builds and powers, and that is nice. I don't want a "fix" to gravity to fix it by making it a clone of fire control, for example, where the only essential difference is that you have 1 pet in singy instead of 3.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
A group of 5 baddies huddled up together . i throw a car . one guy gets hit ?!?!? i throw a large statue i hit one more !!
Really ?
Propel a single target attack
stupid
I'd be opposed to -kb in the immobilizes, personally.
However, reduced animation times on Propel and Wormhole are pretty uncontroversial. As is increasing Wormhole's radius to the same as other AoE controls and fixing the early notification thing. Moving Wormhole up earlier is also a popular request. Anyway Wormhole doesn't really need any nerfing - it can just be
Also, please, please fix Lift's damage on Controllers. I don't know why they omitted that when they made the fix on Dominators.
As for Dimension Shift, there're just too many ideas for what to do with it. I guess the devs can just do what they see fit, but honestly the fixes proposed earlier in this thread would pretty much mostly fix Gravity for me already.
I hate Propel. I hate an attack that takes way to long to animate and then usually hits the foes in teams AFTER that foe is already dead..
I hate the way Wormhole works.. The stun is applied AFTER which means I STILL get shot up.. and the knockback is an ANNOYING and unnecessary mechanic to the power. The only thing it does is make the power difficult to use.
The Dimension Shift power in most cases ( and I realize there are few.. but very very few ) is a complete and total waste. It is a useless power and needs to be scrapped..
I think the Warshade does gravity better than the Gravity character does and thats a shame..
They need to totally throw the cottage rule out the window on this one.. Every control set is better than Gravity... every one... It doesnt have to be the BEST one.. but it could be a LOT less mediocre..too much hard control.. one hard control thats hard to use...no soft control that anyone wants..
It does have the best pet IMO. Singy rules !!!
Remember when there was no Singy??
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
You could also leave the sets it takes alone, Lightning Storm fires bolts which are technically AOE, but takes single target sets rather than the Targetted AOE ones.