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You know what's the worst I've done with Dimension Shift? During the 3rd mission of ITF, I thought it would be cool to phase all the robot bosses when they activate. I click a robot that stands pretty far from the Computer but I guess the radius is freaking huge. Needless to say, we couldn't finish off Computer for 30s. lol|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Gravity has the misfortune of containing two verifiable "bad player detectors". On a single ITF recently, I watched a gravity dom:
1. Dimension shift the minotaur guarding Sister Solaris, making it impossible for us to free her in a timely fashion as wave after wave of ambushes spawned and the minotaur ran around like an (untouchable) idiot. 2. Wormhole entire spawns inside lag canyon to the TOP of lag canyon, including spawns that surrounded Generals, again making it impossible to complete an objective until the stun wore off and they managed to wander back down to where we were waiting. In the hands of a reasonable player, Gravity is an okay set. Not great, but not terrible. (And yes, I've played the set to 50, albeit on a controller.) In the hands of a bad player, it's a nightmare to behold. I think that's a big part of its reputation. |
That's what I get for trying to find a use for a almost-useless power. I tried. I just didn't click far enough.
On a side note, I never enhance Intangibility. I only put one ACC. I thought AVs/Elite require more than mag 4? Ugh.. that computer situation really pisses me off. It would have been cool if I can phase out most of the robots so the team can safely finish off the computer. Oh well..
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Originally Posted by _Ail_
But this was specifically done just for doms to counteract the "gravity is better for controllers" argument. It is funny that people still make the argument though and seemingly have completely forgotten about the lift fix. "The grass is always greener on the other side," and human psychology is more at play than anything else here I think with all of the complaints.
I honestly think many people who complain about gravity just don't really play the set or want it to be another fire control or something. It really only needs very minor fixes to be absolutely competitive. |
It's not even just about Doms vs Controllers though, Mind Control's Levitate is for all intents and purposes identical to Gravity's Lift, but even on Controllers deals 1.32scale damage.
Lift was changed for Dominators to deal the same damage as Levitate, there's no reason for it not to also deal the same damage as Levitate on Controllers. Lift got "fixed" for one AT, but left "broken" on another.
Gravity has a myriad of small problems as well as a few real big problems, that just add up to being a stinker of a set.
(please don't take this the wrong way, but)
I honestly think that the people who DON'T complain about Gravity are letting their personal feelings for a pet set get in the way of recognizing that it's poorly built and in desperate need of improvement.
I don't want Fire control 2.0. I also don't want to have to slog through 26 levels of absolute inferiority just to get a "main control" power almost every other set has by level 12 or 18, that's only even particularly useful 1/2 the time I need it and has the potential to be actively detrimental to my team if the stars aren't aligned just so.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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But Levitate has a longer activation time than lift, right? So they aren't identical powers. Lift activates more quickly, making it do better DPA if they do the same damage. So I am not convinced by your argument.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
It's not even just about Doms vs Controllers though, Mind Control's Levitate is for all intents and purposes identical to Gravity's Lift, but even on Controllers deals 1.32scale damage.
Lift was changed for Dominators to deal the same damage as Levitate, there's no reason for it not to also deal the same damage as Levitate on Controllers. Lift got "fixed" for one AT, but left "broken" on another. |
Lift was changed in the Dominator Archetype Revamp two years ago, and it is in this context that it was changed. It hardly seems guaranteed that the change will also proliferate to controllers.
For example, Power Push was changed to a 1.64 damage scale attack in the Dominator Archetype Revamp. But are any of the other versions of Power Push doing that much damage? No, they aren't. This is hardly surprising since the change was made to balance dominators and was done inthe context of the dominator archetype revamp.
Lift might get changed for controllers in some future issue for further balancing, just like Power Push might get changed in the blast sets, but it has been 2 years now and you really have to view the changes that were made as balance changes for dominators.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
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I can almost guarantee you that Power Push in other sets won't be changed to Dominator's version. Assault set is a lot different. They increased damage in some "utilities" powers as a way to balance the whole set (Energy Assault and Psychic Assault are two that I can think of). |
Originally Posted by _Ail_
Lift might get changed for controllers in some future issue for further balancing, just like Power Push might get changed in the blast sets, but it has been 2 years now and you really have to view the changes that were made as balance changes for dominators. |
Lift in Controller should be matched to Dominator's version. I can't remember the exact number but does Lift cost as much endurance as Levitate? You can have one power having a bit more activation time but still does the same damage, have the same endurance cost and recharge. Somebody told me activation time in Levitate is actually shorter than the listed value?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Animation time, for the most part, isn't part of the formula for determining the damage of a power. (In fact it wasn't originally considered in power balance AT ALL, which has always been part of Gravity's problem.)|
Originally Posted by _Ail_
But Levitate has a longer activation time than lift, right? So they aren't identical powers. Lift activates more quickly, making it do better DPA if they do the same damage. So I am not convinced by your argument.
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Despite that this thread is in the Dominator forums, I'm not comparing Controller Lift to Dominator Lift. I specifically sited Mind Control's Levitate as it's a contemporary of Lift that even on Controllers deals the -proper- 1.32scale damage for it's 6second recharge. This is not a "Dom vs Controller" thing, it is simply an oddity within Gravity Control.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Lift in Controller should be matched to Dominator's version. I can't remember the exact number but does Lift cost as much endurance as Levitate? You can have one power having a bit more activation time but still does the same damage, have the same endurance cost and recharge. Somebody told me activation time in Levitate is actually shorter than the listed value?
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They cost the same end, have the same recharge, the same range, and the same effects with the same magnitudes and durations.
Edit: If fact they even use the same animation, so why there's a difference in activation time at all is all the more puzzling.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Gravity has the misfortune of containing two verifiable "bad player detectors". On a single ITF recently, I watched a gravity dom:
1. Dimension shift the minotaur guarding Sister Solaris, making it impossible for us to free her in a timely fashion as wave after wave of ambushes spawned and the minotaur ran around like an (untouchable) idiot.
2. Wormhole entire spawns inside lag canyon to the TOP of lag canyon, including spawns that surrounded Generals, again making it impossible to complete an objective until the stun wore off and they managed to wander back down to where we were waiting.
In the hands of a reasonable player, Gravity is an okay set. Not great, but not terrible. (And yes, I've played the set to 50, albeit on a controller.)
In the hands of a bad player, it's a nightmare to behold. I think that's a big part of its reputation.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.