If these people come to Champion to play with us on Champion, it makes them part of Champion. That's pretty much all there is to it, in my opnion. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
What is a "Champion Server PVPer"?
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/signed.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
If these people come to Champion to play with us on Champion, it makes them part of Champion. That's pretty much all there is to it, in my opnion.
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Indeed, even one of our draftees is gonna keep toon(s) on Champ because he's enjoying the activity and good ppl.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
If these people come to Champion to play with us on Champion, it makes them part of Champion. That's pretty much all there is to it, in my opnion.
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Champion Server-"Play like a Champion today!"
"True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but in the firm resolve of virtue and reason." - Sir Alfred North Whitehead
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Well in that case half the people in the current league should quit including myself.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
People really seem to be missing the whole point of the CAPE PvP League. This PvP League was intended for Champion server PvPers. Not for City of Heroes PvPers as a whole. It was never intended to be advertised outside of the Champion server forum and the CAPE forums. Exit asked about advertising the PvP league on other servers and in the PvP forums, but was specifically told not to and that this PvP league was for Champion server players. Artic advertised it all over anyway.
How many of the 8 people that want to join ever played on Champion outside of a PvP league? |
And I know at least 1 of them played on champion as I did a few TF's with Silit last champion league.
Also I thought this was to give the boot campee's their first league, but that may have been a misunderstanding on my part.
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Originally Posted by Braije
Indeed, even one of our draftees is gonna keep toon(s) on Champ because he's enjoying the activity and good ppl.
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I kept my main on Champion after meeting people like yourself, Sinny and Enigma. I also now have like 5 50's there since I was lvl'ing stuff for the last league.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
I think the fact that I made this topic's first post and for the past 8 pages people have been looking out for the better of Champion/CAPE shows you just what kind of a server Champion is.. I don't doubt that your all better PVPrs than everybody else... But tbh, nobody gives a damn whose better than them... People care about the people who are better than them and are interested in helping them out.. For example Masque's Team beat my team by 18 points but the very next post made on the CAPE boards from their team was from Lib saying that if teams were interested with practicing w/ his help he would be available at XYZ dates/times.... So please by all means ride around on your high horse because we don't want a part of it unless your willing to get off and help out... being able to do something is one thing.. being able to teach it requires an entirely different level of understanding.
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/Signed|
Originally Posted by Most_Amazing
I think the fact that I made this topic's first post and for the past 8 pages people have been looking out for the better of Champion/CAPE shows you just what kind of a server Champion is.. I don't doubt that your all better PVPrs than everybody else... But tbh, nobody gives a damn whose better than them... People care about the people who are better than them and are interested in helping them out.. For example Masque's Team beat my team by 18 points but the very next post made on the CAPE boards from their team was from Lib saying that if teams were interested with practicing w/ his help he would be available at XYZ dates/times.... So please by all means ride around on your high horse because we don't want a part of it unless your willing to get off and help out... being able to do something is one thing.. being able to teach it requires an entirely different level of understanding.
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And glad for those who have chose to come here and offer such.
Champion Server-"Play like a Champion today!"
"True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but in the firm resolve of virtue and reason." - Sir Alfred North Whitehead
Really? That kind of attitude is what KILLS pvp across all servers.
Who exactly made you the speaker for Champion? What makes you a Champion player? Did you take a citizenship test to make you an official member of society? Or did you just happen to make a character and just happen to log on to it and join the COMMUNITY in playing on Champion?
I don't know who all is on the team that wants to join but I can tell you this much. Vinnie started on Champion and was a very active player here. In fact he was my preferred target caller at old hami raids for a LONG time. I personally think he can be a total *** at times but that doesn't change the fact that he is indeed a member of Champion.
Peril also started on Champion. As a very strong and active member of HVND and was a very strong test player for Champion on the old test ladder. Pretty sure he is supposed to be on the team wanting to join as well.
Not that any of that should matter because Champion doesn't have enough pvp or enough good pvpr's to have such an elitist attitude about who can and cannot participate.
Say you don't want them because they are ******** or trolls, that I could fathom being a reason. Saying they don't belong because they are not from Champion is lame and untrue.
~kat
ps. <3 Philly & Masque
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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
People really seem to be missing the whole point of the CAPE PvP League. This PvP League was intended for Champion server PvPers. Not for City of Heroes PvPers as a whole. It was never intended to be advertised outside of the Champion server forum and the CAPE forums. Exit asked about advertising the PvP league on other servers and in the PvP forums, but was specifically told not to and that this PvP league was for Champion server players. Artic advertised it all over anyway.
How many of the 8 people that want to join ever played on Champion outside of a PvP league? |
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You need to txt Masque and ask him what Mini Masque (aka Hemm) named his Blaster that he transfered to champion.|
Originally Posted by WarScribe
ps. <3 Philly & Masque
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Also much <3
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Aren't you the genius that made an unironic post calling for Defenders and Tankers to be removed entirely from CoH?|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
People really seem to be missing the whole point of the CAPE PvP League. This PvP League was intended for Champion server PvPers. Not for City of Heroes PvPers as a whole. It was never intended to be advertised outside of the Champion server forum and the CAPE forums. Exit asked about advertising the PvP league on other servers and in the PvP forums, but was specifically told not to and that this PvP league was for Champion server players. Artic advertised it all over anyway.
How many of the 8 people that want to join ever played on Champion outside of a PvP league? |
Your notion of exclusivity is going to be the very death of PvP, and therein lies the reverse-elitism that Xanatos was talking about.
Back when the PvP community was far more active, the Test Server community would consistently go from server to server actively trying to pull more players in order to generate more competition on one server. It was there belief that focusing more players and more teams to one server would make the Developers take notice that their subscribers were taking an interest in the PvP system. Those same players also hoped that if enough of them were concentrated enough, their voices and concerns would be heard regarding the state of the PvP system.
Sadly, those players that attempted to foster PvP regardless of rules and regulations have since left the game.
Champion is my home server. I've played here longer than you have. I saw the rise and fall of Champion's RP community, I pvped here when the Arena first released, and took more beatings from HVND then you have cumulatively in your entire time pvping and playing this game.
This reverse-elitism, and the lack of a proper counter argument regarding a new team entering the league are clear indications that a new team featuring highly skilled players is simply not wanted. Braije I believe mentioned that Xanatos thought it was a "conspiracy"? Wrong, it is the only accurate supposition that can be made on account of several reasons leading up to one (accurate) conclusion.
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I personally may be a flagrant ******* at times, but more often than not I'm stuck with that label simply because I present my points in a no ******** kind of way. Most people don't like facts being presented bluntly. Having been a member of the Champion community for so long, I've seen just how far sugar coating things can get you.|
Originally Posted by Most_Amazing
I think the fact that I made this topic's first post and for the past 8 pages people have been looking out for the better of Champion/CAPE shows you just what kind of a server Champion is.. I don't doubt that your all better PVPrs than everybody else... But tbh, nobody gives a damn whose better than them... People care about the people who are better than them and are interested in helping them out.. For example Masque's Team beat my team by 18 points but the very next post made on the CAPE boards from their team was from Lib saying that if teams were interested with practicing w/ his help he would be available at XYZ dates/times.... So please by all means ride around on your high horse because we don't want a part of it unless your willing to get off and help out... being able to do something is one thing.. being able to teach it requires an entirely different level of understanding.
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However, for as much **** talking as I've done, there is not one person that has any experience with me PvP wise that can say that I turned them away when they asked for help.
When dUmb was first starting up years ago, I went to their Teamspeak to offer them advice and suggestions for building a better offense. I've always shared my perspective on the roles that I've played in PvP, be it Disruption, Support, Offense or Target Calling.
CriticalKat is a veteran Champion player. And for all of the back-and-forth that her and I have had, every time that she has come to me with a PvP question, I've always been willing to offer my perspective as best that I possibly could. You would find that to be true across the board regardless of what server I've played on or what team that I've played for.
I have not once in this thread made any argument that I would not make an attempt to help another player increase their skill level. In fact, I've made points stating that the "old guard" (if you will) did just that. At this point in the game's tenure, I consider myself to be a member of said group, and therefore echo that sentiment.
How is my fighting to ensure that another team joins the league in order to strengthen it any indication that I am on any high horse at all? Did I come into this thread and proclaim that my team would destroy everyone else decisively and thus end the "fun" factor in the league?
Being that I am the one doing the most arguing in favor of my team coming in (a futile effort, I am aware) it would serve you well to read what I'm posting as opposed to skimming before you make generalized statements.
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While I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me, I have to say i'm pretty disgusted with what you just wrote. You've completely ignored all my questions and decided to just stereotype me as a "1337 pvper" who wants to beat people and not help train newbies. You put words into my mouth, speak down to me, and offend me. You say I ride a high horse, but that is exactly what your post seems like to me. I get that you're probably just being protective of your event from the two guys who seem like they're on a mission to turn this thread into a dramafest. But I promise you that's not what we're trying to do here. We simply want to join in the fun. That's really all there is to it.|
Originally Posted by Most_Amazing
I think the fact that I made this topic's first post and for the past 8 pages people have been looking out for the better of Champion/CAPE shows you just what kind of a server Champion is.. I don't doubt that your all better PVPrs than everybody else... But tbh, nobody gives a damn whose better than them... People care about the people who are better than them and are interested in helping them out.. For example Masque's Team beat my team by 18 points but the very next post made on the CAPE boards from their team was from Lib saying that if teams were interested with practicing w/ his help he would be available at XYZ dates/times.... So please by all means ride around on your high horse because we don't want a part of it unless your willing to get off and help out... being able to do something is one thing.. being able to teach it requires an entirely different level of understanding.
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I have been arguing with Braije and a couple of others in the last few pages, and while I don't understand why they disagreed with me, the discussion was becoming a positive one. Most of the people respinding to me welcomed the idea of a new team and of playing against experienced PVPers. This made me smile because I was worried everyone would be all "OMG GTFO GRIEFERS!"...which is how most people tend to respond to experienced PVPers.
Despite this however, the guys and gals in this thread don't run this league. You do. So could you please have a look at the following and see if it seems agreeable to you:
Please break the rules and let Vince, me, and the rest of our team join in the fun.
I understand that the rules were put in place to ensure certain principles of fair play were encouraged, to allow for simple organisation of the league, to promote a competative environment, and to help teach the next generation of PVPers. If a compromise could be found that breaks the rules, but nonetheless maintains the principles the rules were created to enforce, then any reasonable person should have no problem with it.
My compromise: Let Vince's team play, but only on the condition they help newbie players.
Would this compromise maintain the principles on which the rules were created? (I.e. the very thing that makes the rules legitimate) Yes. Yes they would. Here's why:
Would it be "fair play" to let Vince's team take part? Yes. Because although other teams were not able to join late, none of the other teams are negatively impacted in any way. As being able to join this late does not provide Vince's team with a significant advantage in any way I think it is safe to say that letting them play would be fair for everyone involved.
Would letting Vince's team play be a "simple thing to organise"? Yes, as Vince's team would be self-contained it would simply be an addition to the current league setup that would not require any administration on behalf of yourself or any other people running the league. You could simply say "yes you can join" and that would be that. No teams would be reshuffled. No schedules would be broken. Nothing would happen other than another team being able to take part.
Would letting Vince's team participate help to "promote competition" in the league? Yes of course it would. Vince and the members of his team are very very good at PVP. This doesn't make them better than you. It doesn't mean they're on a high horse. It doesn't mean they want to lord it over you so that their epeens feel big. It simply means they're good at PVP. Letting people who are good at PVP and, more importantly, very anxious to play PVP, take part in your event would definitely help to promote a competitive edge in the league.
Would this help to teach new players PVP? Of course it would! Like I said in one of my other posts, Vince and a couple other guys took me under their wing a while ago and showed me the ropes. I was completely useless at PVP. Check out my signature. I'm a complete Roleplayer. I've been writing in-game fanfiction for YEARS and running roleplay events for YEARS. I'm not cut from the same cloth as the uber kiddies, yet Vince and co helped give me a leg up so I was able to stand toe-to-toe with them. (Well...near enough anyway!
) Not allowing arguably the most experienced PVPers in the game to take part isn't only blocking them as a team, but it's blocking them as potential mentors.So yeah, anyway, there you have it. By my reasoning (which I accept you may not agree with, and I would very much like to hear your thoughts on) allowing Vince and his team to play in the league would help to promote the sportsmanship upon which the rules themself were written. So won't you please just break the rules this once so we can skip all this drama and get back to the PVP goodness?
After all...there's no rule saying that the rules can't be broken
As I see it, rules are rules. Sometimes they just can't be broken, and that's the cold hard truth (in this case, I don't see what harm would come from breaking said rule, but ultimately, the choice isn't ours).
That part is pretty straightforward. The rest... eh...
Vinnie has probably PvPed on champion more than any two people in this league put together. I don't really see how that matters at all, though... I don't really see how a player's lack of PvP experience on champion matters either. Back when PvP thrived on champion, I don't remember anyone from HVND, VORI, PCJL, or any PvP involved SG from Champion refusing to play people who were from other servers.
As for us being on some sort of high horse, how?
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We don't give a damn either. Really. We don't. Once again, Vinnie alone has probably helped more PvPers become successful (Meaning they actually significantly improved) than anyone else here.| But tbh, nobody gives a damn whose better than them... People care about the people who are better than them and are interested in helping them out.. For example Masque's Team beat my team by 18 points but the very next post made on the CAPE boards from their team was from Lib saying that if teams were interested with practicing w/ his help he would be available at XYZ dates/times.... So please by all means ride around on your high horse because we don't want a part of it unless your willing to get off and help out... being able to do something is one thing.. being able to teach it requires an entirely different level of understanding. |
Ask players like Fiery, Liberty, Tfury, or almost anyone else on the two teams you consider to be competative: Which players helped you improve the most? They'd likely name several players who happen to be on our roster.
Does that mean we're amazing teachers who bend over backwards to help everyone at all costs? Hell no. But the notion that we are just some malicious group of elitists who hate fun is pretty unfounded. We just want to play matches, together. We don't care about winning or who claims to be the "best".
Almost half of our roster is made up of RPers from virtue, like Xanatos. I don't see how he's suddenly being die-cast as an elitist PvPer who wants to ruin everyone's fun. Pretty ridiculous.
And...as for a team asking for practices after they've rolled other teams - that's not sportsmanship, lol. That's just asking for practice. Any team in their right mind would do that.
In summary:
We aren't elitists. We don't care about winning. Some of us are ********, some of us aren't. We want to play together, because we like playing bad games for nostalgia and just for plain kicks. The only difference between us and anyone else is that we have more RPers.
Vince, first off, let me give you your dues. You are a really funny guy, Exit and a bunch of us were rolling watching your battle raps against that vampire dude, the mohawk, and that Gomer Pyle looking kid.
I have never played with you, maybe one practice where I helped fill U2BG against -divines team but I don't recall if you are calling or not. In any case, everyone says you are a great target caller and a good rad.
I have to agree with your statement:
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I myself have also found that if you ask for advice from seasoned vets 9 times out of 10 you will get great info back. I mean as bad of a rap as Vex gets, after he and a small group beat my team in a practice, I asked his advice on what we could do to improve and he gave solid advice, without any vexiness (to coin a term). Silit was the same way in the first champion league. | CriticalKat is a veteran Champion player. And for all of the back-and-forth that her and I have had, every time that she has come to me with a PvP question, I've always been willing to offer my perspective as best that I possibly could. You would find that to be true across the board regardless of what server I've played on or what team that I've played for. |
I think honestly though, you are coming down a little hard on these players who are trying to do exactly what you and myself and many others have also tried- to breath some sort of life into pvp on this game.
If you are willing to listen to my advice perhaps you could start your own league, be it here or on Freedom or even Test. I know there are a lot of people who would join a league if it was set up well and looked like fun. I would certainly join a league if you set it up and I was available.
This league is only 6 weeks long, 5 more matches to play and its over, why not just start the ground work on a new league.
I'm not coming down hard on anyone, really. I've approached the discussion with logical and relevant points, and received attitude and reverse-elitism in return. If that makes me a tad bit cranky, I'd be one to say that it is certainly justifiable.
As for creating a league on another server, it is almost counter-productive at this point due to a concentrated amount of players now being situated on Champion. Bear in mind that I am not such an individual that would attempt to pull away from the group of players on one server to strengthen my league/agenda/what have you. Therefore, I find it better to increase a playerbase for an ongoing league and keep that level of PvP in place on one server.
Also, someone made a point about our team coming back and participating in Kickballs, Practice matches.
We have discussed this at length and concluded that if we brought a full team back to actively play and practice with the other active league teams outside of the league itself, all of the teams would refuse to practice with us, with the exception of Liberty's team.
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Originally Posted by vindizzLe
I'm not coming down hard on anyone, really. I've approached the discussion with logical and relevant points, and received attitude and reverse-elitism in return. If that makes me a tad bit cranky, I'd be one to say that it is certainly justifiable.
As for creating a league on another server, it is almost counter-productive at this point due to a concentrated amount of players now being situated on Champion. Bear in mind that I am not such an individual that would attempt to pull away from the group of players on one server to strengthen my league/agenda/what have you. Therefore, I find it better to increase a playerbase for an ongoing league and keep that level of PvP in place on one server. Also, someone made a point about our team coming back and participating in Kickballs, Practice matches. We have discussed this at length and concluded that if we brought a full team back to actively play and practice with the other active league teams outside of the league itself, all of the teams would refuse to practice with us, with the exception of Liberty's team. |
I think Mah's team would play with you, can't say for sure but they don't seem to shy away from the teams that will roll them.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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I would. I'm part of a league team but I can still 2v2, 4v4, etc etc like mad. There's always a chance to learn something new.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
I think Mah's team would play with you, can't say for sure but they don't seem to shy away from the teams that will roll them.
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Many good points have been made in this thread. I am not involved with the current league, and have not been involved in any pvp, of any type, in quite some time, nor do I plan to be involved. But a few thoughts I would like to share are as follow...
I think it is a good thing to see organized pvp in this game again. I believe the best way to learn is a combination of both playing against the best players available and having those same players teach. It was the best way for me when I learned way back when, but that may not work for everyone involved here in this discussion so take it for what its worth.
Back when I first got into pvp (pointing to I4) I took alot of beatings...I mean a **** ton, but eventually I got decent at it. While I would have never considered myself "elite", or even very good back then, I could hold my own. But I would have never learned without taking some lumps, and competiting against everyone possible.
My personal opinion is that people who want to be in the league should be allowed in. From what I have read (on this thread) the rules of this particular league do not allow that. If that is the decision of the organizers of this league then so be it. As an outsider looking in I respect that...I disagree, but respect it at the same time. Getting good at pvp in this game from the player perspective takes alot of time, dedication, and alot of "I ******* want to do it!" Those players who have become better pvp'rs have earned it through hard work. For the players who are venturing into the "Arena" to learn...god bless you because it is a learning curve, but one that can be ascertained with some dedication. So in my opinion new players could only benefit themselves by playing against every pvp'r out that...even if it means breaking the rules a little.
And lets all remember the old saying: "It's just a game". Enjoy it my friends.
I could be missing something going on behind the scenes here as well, and if thats the case then unfortunately some drama may be involved, and that my friends is no good for anyone.
Some things should be considered. Possibly a discussion on Vent could clear the air. Just throwing that out there.
That is all. Wafflecakes.
"Yes, Cajun, you CAN have a pony!" - Dusk Hammer (11/11/2008)
The league is closed.
The compromise was/is letting them in and joining the free agent list. The desire is to have more talent on the teams that perhaps need the help, not to add another stacked team in the league. Spreading the talent better to hopefully close the gap from the bottom teams to the top 2 teams. 3 of the teams have takin hits and could use the extra people.
We'd like to make things better for the teams that have been in both the basic training and now this league. Not make it worse. By letting in another stacked team, when there are teams that are in need of people on their rosters, i feel it would be a detriment. Its too bad there is an unwillingness there to perhaps take this offer as a chance to pass along a few tips and pointers to those pvp teams that could certainly use the guidence.
It isnt myself or MAH that are not willing to compromise. It is this other team.
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THIS!|
Originally Posted by The_Cajun
And lets all remember the old saying: "It's just a game". Enjoy it my friends. |
P.S. Enjoyed the rest of your post as well, Cajun. So wasn't trying to clip off the rest as much as emphasizing and applauding!
Champion Server-"Play like a Champion today!"
"True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but in the firm resolve of virtue and reason." - Sir Alfred North Whitehead
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While I appreciate you taking the time to put up a response here, we've pretty much given up on trying to take part in this. It's quite clear you guys don't want to it us take part as a team, nor do you actually want to engage us in discussion.|
Originally Posted by Cherry Cupcakes
The league is closed.
The compromise was/is letting them in and joining the free agent list. The desire is to have more talent on the teams that perhaps need the help, not to add another stacked team in the league. Spreading the talent better to hopefully close the gap from the bottom teams to the top 2 teams. 3 of the teams have takin hits and could use the extra people. We'd like to make things better for the teams that have been in both the basic training and now this league. Not make it worse. By letting in another stacked team, when there are teams that are in need of people on their rosters, i feel it would be a detriment. Its too bad there is an unwillingness there to perhaps take this offer as a chance to pass along a few tips and pointers to those pvp teams that could certainly use the guidence. It isnt myself or MAH that are not willing to compromise. It is this other team. |
No hard feelings. Best of luck with your league.
Xanatos out.
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Compromise and ultimatum are not synonymous. A compromise would involve having some form of discourse with me regarding the issue. Nope.|
Originally Posted by Cherry Cupcakes
The league is closed.
The compromise was/is letting them in and joining the free agent list. The desire is to have more talent on the teams that perhaps need the help, not to add another stacked team in the league. Spreading the talent better to hopefully close the gap from the bottom teams to the top 2 teams. 3 of the teams have takin hits and could use the extra people. We'd like to make things better for the teams that have been in both the basic training and now this league. Not make it worse. By letting in another stacked team, when there are teams that are in need of people on their rosters, i feel it would be a detriment. Its too bad there is an unwillingness there to perhaps take this offer as a chance to pass along a few tips and pointers to those pvp teams that could certainly use the guidence. It isnt myself or MAH that are not willing to compromise. It is this other team. |
Have you seen what our proposed roster would be, or are you making an assumption that a team is going to be stacked for the sake of?
Take this from someone who has more experience in virtually every realm of PvP gameplay and organization that this game has seen; spreading the wealth does not offer the benefit that you assume that it does.
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Let me just take a second to affirm to you that I am of the opinion the more experience involved the better. Somehow, because I chose to express to you the wall you were going to run into that I am therefore 'arguing' or being 'confrontational'. It is quite the contrary. |
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Compromise and ultimatum are not synonymous. A compromise would involve having some form of discourse with me regarding the issue. Nope.
Have you seen what our proposed roster would be, or are you making an assumption that a team is going to be stacked for the sake of? Take this from someone who has more experience in virtually every realm of PvP gameplay and organization that this game has seen; spreading the wealth does not offer the benefit that you assume that it does. |
The rules were set in place and you can debate until you're blue in the face. At some point, you have to decide where to cut your losses. (That's just a general principle, it also applies here). Now, I concur it is an assumption that it would be a 'stacked team'. However, I don't think Xan helped there to much with his statements that you would bring a readied team that would show ppl in this current league what real PvP is like. I took no offense to that, I admire confidence and vigor. But I would hope you could see where that might come off as brash and a bit unnecessary considering this type of vehicle (text) can lack inflection and things can be not only taken out of context, but assumptions will be made. That's just human nature for you.
That is not to say it made any effect as to allowing another full team to the roster, it's how they've chosen to stick to the rules they've laid out. I can respect that as I've had to adhere to them, but then again it's unfortunate because the more experienced players there are in the mix the better. (I like you Vinnie, am a very blunt and outspoken individual, not to mention very sarcastic.)
That being said, I don't think you're anymore in the wrong than you are in the right to presume what has been presented is an ultimatum. No more so than you not participating if you can't bring an organized team to an ongoing league. It seems that's the option at this point thus for being the definition of a compromise. I wish you guys would bring more activity over here so we all benefit in the long run. Whether that be KB's or just practice, I would enjoy more experienced ppl like yourselves here. Since it cannot be a team in the current league that is going on, just come have some fun with us. The team I am currently on would welcome and appreciate more seasoned players to learn from.
In closing, while this league is going on and we have the activity of new to seasoned vets here on the server. I am going to announce a 'Last Man Standing' contest that I hope at the very least you guys will consider worth your time. (Substantial monetary prizes will be awarded. Bills not Mills) I will post the details soon and at the very least for the sake of what PvP community is left I hope will show up and participate. I would hope it wouldn't take just a league for you to move some toons and join us for KB's or even some good arena PvP to motivate. At the very least, maybe my contest will. Hope to see you here sooner than later.
Champion Server-"Play like a Champion today!"
"True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but in the firm resolve of virtue and reason." - Sir Alfred North Whitehead
Quote:
What was presented was an ultimatum, not a compromise. There has yet to be even the slightest approach of a compromise. To do so would again, involve discourse between myself and the organizers. |
Originally Posted by Braije
Let me just take a second to affirm to you that I am of the opinion the more experience involved the better. Somehow, because I chose to express to you the wall you were going to run into that I am therefore 'arguing' or being 'confrontational'. It is quite the contrary.
The rules were set in place and you can debate until you're blue in the face. At some point, you have to decide where to cut your losses. (That's just a general principle, it also applies here). Now, I concur it is an assumption that it would be a 'stacked team'. However, I don't think Xan helped there to much with his statements that you would bring a readied team that would show ppl in this current league what real PvP is like. I took no offense to that, I admire confidence and vigor. But I would hope you could see where that might come off as brash and a bit unnecessary considering this type of vehicle (text) can lack inflection and things can be not only taken out of context, but assumptions will be made. That's just human nature for you. That is not to say it made any effect as to allowing another full team to the roster, it's how they've chosen to stick to the rules they've laid out. I can respect that as I've had to adhere to them, but then again it's unfortunate because the more experienced players there are in the mix the better. (I like you Vinnie, am a very blunt and outspoken individual, not to mention very sarcastic.) That being said, I don't think you're anymore in the wrong than you are in the right to presume what has been presented is an ultimatum. No more so than you not participating if you can't bring an organized team to an ongoing league. It seems that's the option at this point thus for the definition of a compromise. I wish you guys would bring more activity over here so we all benefit in the long run. Whether that be KB's or just practice, I would enjoy more experienced ppl like yourselves here. Since it cannot be a team in the current league that is going on, just come have some fun with us. The team I am currently on would welcome and appreciate more seasoned players to learn from. In closing, while this league is going on and we have the activity of new to seasoned vets here on the server. I am going to announce a 'Last Man Standing' contest that I hope at the very least you guys will consider worth your time. (Substantial monetary prizes will be awarded. Bills not Mills) I will post the details soon and at the very least for the sake of what PvP community is left I hope will show up and participate. I would hope it wouldn't take just a league for you to move some toons and join us for KB's or even some good arena PvP to motivate. At the very least, maybe my contest will. Hope to see you here sooner than later. |
"Take X option or leave it" is not a compromise, it is an ultimatum by definition, as determined by the organizers. No middle ground has been made.
If I had faith that teams would actively practice with a ready roster that I brought to Champion, then we would be there to play. That is a middle ground, but having 6-8 players re-activate accounts in good faith just doesn't seem likely. A guaranteed roster slot is far more concrete, I don't believe that there is any argument there.
An event that offers billions of influence in rewards, while a nice gesture, does nothing for us. I'm not sure what the details of a "Last Man Standing" event are, but if they follow any sort of "Stock" ruleset for a PvP match, I would respectfully decline playing in that as well.
People will say one thing and completely do another. I've had plenty of teams tell me that they would be open to practice against every team I've either lead or been a part of. More often than not, those teams ended up finding something better to do (see: log out) than actually play against us.
My team won't get to play, and on account of that, the community loses out on more players returning to strengthen the PvP playerbase for some time. It isn't a significant loss, I understand that. But it is unfortunate that the individuals running the ship now have an attitude that caters to exclusivity, as that was something that was never really a case with the PvP community. I'm sad to see that what I enjoyed so much about this game has degraded to that.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight