Quote:
Yeah, fair enough.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
If I remember correctly, it was originally advertised or talked about to be just that (hardcore/competitive). At some point Cherry/MAH decided to change the focus of it a bit, not that I have a problem with that.
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I guess the goalposts got moved, so to speak. I just hope we can get through the rest of it without too much drama/craziness. It's been pretty fun so far.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Quote:
Exactly. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
It's been pretty fun so far.
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Let's see how many new people survive trial by fire.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
Quote:
That's a sad attitude to have as a Vet player who I'm sure your team would look to for advice. If you look back to the dUmb team on the freedom league, we managed to squeak out a few wins and ties against Post Op and U2BG with the storm team despite being out matched in talent and experience. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
The league at this point is almost over after week one because there is an imbalance of vets/newer players that should not have occurred in the first place. What should have happened (for example) is your team should have had 3-4 people you chose then others from the draft, same with Artic's team, same with Cherry's team, etc. etc. It didn't and basically you and Artic are going to keep rolling everyone else, teams are going to drop (Spyne's team is already dropping) and basically just your team and Artic's team will be left week 2 or 3.
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I'd hope that rather than throwing in the towel and completely discounting your teammates for any hope of improvement, you'd take what you've learned as a player who has been around and help them step up and be better players.
EDIT I'VE BEEN ASKED TO CORRECT THIS POST THAT U2BG DID NOT IN FACT LOSE TO THE STORM TEAM, ONLY TIED IT. SORRY FOR THE VAGUENESS
EDIT AGAIN WE BEAT THEIR D6 TEAM ONCE I HEARD THEY R USE RINGERS THOUGH
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silit
You're welcome.
D6: UTBG vs dUmb Game 1: dUmb wins 4-2. Game 2: U2BG wins 14-2. Game 3: U2BG wins 12-3. |
EDIT ONE LAST TIME! I forgot what this post was about, but looking back at that thread we were really really bad and lost a lot.
Quote:
Not throwing in the towel, simply admitting there is a LARGE skill gap.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I'd hope that rather than throwing in the towel and completely discounting your teammates for any hope of improvement, you'd take what you've learned as a player who has been around and help them step up and be better players. |
I guess that's why we have three toons though.
That said, doyler has been an excellent target-caller for us and there is nowhere to go but up.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Quote:
Trez was the only thing holding dUmb together. Without his velvet hands on Rad and your smooth DJ voice, dUmb would have imploded long ago.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
EDIT AGAIN WE BEAT THEIR D6 TEAM ONCE I HEARD THEY R USE RINGERS THOUGH lolz EDIT ONE LAST TIME! I forgot what this post was about, but looking back at that thread we were really really bad and lost a lot. |
Oh yeah, we had Slax...but he's basically a longshoreman on Blaster.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Not throwing in the towel, simply admitting there is a LARGE skill gap.
I guess that's why we have three toons though. That said, doyler has been an excellent target-caller for us and there is nowhere to go but up. |
Honestly though, has there been any league in recent history that didn't have a skill gap?
PvPEC Freedom League:
2 Good teams:
U2BG
SMD
1 Good team that dropped:
INOAN
1 middle of the road team:
dUmb
2 teams fighting it out for last place:
CIGAL
Eternal Pain
Bud Bowl:
2 Good teams:
Steve
RFR
1 middle of the road teams:
Artic and the Chills
1 team that was ....something:
Joint effort
2 teams that dropped:
Sporks
Spacecowboys
FML:
2 Good teams:
BFG
dUmb
1 decent team:
Not Serious
Kat's Team:
mmmm Good
2 teams that dropped:
Average Joes
Lions and Tigers
One of the most interesting things I've noticed is that teams who everyone thinks are going to be really good at first end up doing ok and other teams that everyone thinks is going to end up dropping pulls it together and makes it to the end, as crazy as -divine was he held that team together after their d8 dropped and ran the rest of the league with just the d6.
I don't think things have changed all that much, there are less people now but hopefully people will have fun and keep pvping even after this league.
You know honestly having vinnie and silit team would probably have been good. I posted this in a privet forum previously, yes the obvious problem with the skill disparity is teams getting rolled but the one thing no one has said yet is the fact that the Lib vs artics matches will be the only challenge these two teams ever have. I would think that would be boring for them. Personally I liked the way the last freedom league was set up a core of 6 with the rest being drafted.
Not that my opinion matters.
One thing I will say is I am consistently surprised by the attitude of the champion league people. I don't know if they are just stubborn mules or just have amazing attitudes but the just roll with the punches and take their licks and come back for more. Are they having fun? Idk I would say at times but the sound i hear in their voices after being farmed doesn't sound like fun. Yet they keep coming back so props to them.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
Quote:
I'd welcome another team, just so there's more people, it will only help things in the end and keep the dwindling PvP community active. Even if the team came in with some kind of penalty in the rankings for joining late. I think restricting access to players, even if it's because it's against the rules is detrimental to the PvP community and will only help lead to the inevitable death of PvP.|
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
You know honestly having vinnie and silit team would probably have been good. I posted this in a privet forum previously, yes the obvious problem with the skill disparity is teams getting rolled but the one thing no one has said yet is the fact that the Lib vs artics matches will be the only challenge these two teams ever have. I would think that would be boring for them. Personally I liked the way the last freedom league was set up a core of 6 with the rest being drafted.
Not that my opinion matters. One thing I will say is I am consistently surprised by the attitude of the champion league people. I don't know if they are just stubborn mules or just have amazing attitudes but the just roll with the punches and take their licks and come back for more. Are they having fun? Idk I would say at times but the sound i hear in their voices after being farmed doesn't sound like fun. Yet they keep coming back so props to them. |
A big problem I've seen from the past couple leagues is that once the league was over, arena PvP kind of died down. Once Bud's league was over, PvP died on Champion and you couldn't even get kickball going. Those who still wanted to play in a league moved over to Freedom. Once that league was over, arena PvP died again with quite a few people leaving the game. I'm afraid that might happen again even with a league already planned after this one.
And I agree Philly, I really like the way FML was setup with a core of 6, captain ran, and simple rules. Except for the events at the end of the league, it ran smoothly and was relatively drama free, besides from the usual trash talk from some individuals.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Trez was the only thing holding dUmb together. Without his velvet hands on Rad and your smooth DJ voice, dUmb would have imploded long ago.
Oh yeah, we had Slax...but he's basically a longshoreman on Blaster. |
RIP Trez <3 T_T
Quote:
I'm sure that the team I would be fielding would have no problem taking a ranking penalty. I'm not going to agree that one is necessary, but it isn't something that I myself, or anyone else on my team would fight.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I'd welcome another team, just so there's more people, it will only help things in the end and keep the dwindling PvP community active. Even if the team came in with some kind of penalty in the rankings for joining late. I think restricting access to players, even if it's because it's against the rules is detrimental to the PvP community and will only help lead to the inevitable death of PvP.
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Unfortunately, even now, a clear reason outside of "you didn't have your **** together" (see: bull ****)hasn't been presented that convinces me that locking out a full, competitive team is a wise solution in an attempt to foster and increase the player-base.
Also, enforcing a 4 ready/4 draft rule is ridiculous as well. The notion that restricting a team to a certain number of pre-determined players will "spread the wealth" has been attempted in server leagues older than half of the accounts participating in this active Champion League.
The TPvPL, IPvPL & FPvPL featured some form of a draft and a notable skill gap was still present. A skill gap exists in nearly every form of competition. There has to be a bottom, and there has to be a top.
Player-versus-Player has always been about winning. It's a competition. To sit and pretend that those that are participating do not want to win is ridiculous.
What I find interesting is that the "elite" PvPers always attempted to foster PvP while maintaining their competitive environment. That is to say, a new player was always welcome to attend a practice, but in order to earn their spot on a team, they had to earn it.
Creating limits and telling players who they can and who they cannot play with will leave a bad taste in that person's mouth.
Players dropped from the FPvPL for a variety of reasons. Many that I spoke with said that they frankly didn't enjoy the system. Others were conflicted due to the active practice schedules that most teams were attempting to follow. I did not, however, run into one player that cited irreconcilable differences with the league (or any league I've participated in, for that matter) because the skill margin was too far out of wack.
Quote:
As long as you've known me, Myrm; you should know that ELF-STALKER is the last person I would channel.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
Ah, that clarifies things. I thought you were just channeling ELF-STALKER for a sec.
Carry one. |
Quote:
Do you really blame anyone from being totally burnt from pvp from champion after that BS? Cmon, Kev! It was a total disaster from every single aspect possible. |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Once Bud's league was over, PvP died on Champion and you couldn't even get kickball going. Those who still wanted to play in a league moved over to Freedom. Once that league was over, arena PvP died again with quite a few people leaving the game. I'm afraid that might happen again even with a league already planned after this one.
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The majority of those that "moved" to freedom were already from there.. hardly anyone that actually calls champion their home server went.
The people that I feel are being a bit on the omgdoooom side now, are the more seasond pvpers.. and although the direction of this league shifted some, the main idea is still there.
This league wasnt totally designed for the seasond pvper.. The people that are from here, went thru the basic training side of things are trying to remain positive and for the most part are having a good time.
Champion sat for a long time with no organized PVP. A lot of us are trying to make it work.
Practice makes perfect, hopefully we'll all find a way to have all skill lvl's of pvp coexist in the same league so we all can get something from it.
Peace.
I don't see how all skill levels can co-exist if all skill levels aren't allowed to exist.
I also don't get the notion that players who win leagues are somehow "COMPETITIVE" or "ELITE". Someone is going to win.
The simple fact is, the CoH PvP community has NEVER had a balance of skill across the board. Skill levels co-existed simply because they existed in the first place, not because they were regulated.
If player X can evade well enough to survive every spike from player Y's team, is he an elitist for not intentionally letting himself die a couple times? Is he an elitist for wanting to team with people who are of a similar or higher skill level than he?
It's got nothing to do with being "hardcore/softcore" or "competitive/casual". There's no such thing.
Anyone who participated in the freedom league (the one that had roughly four times as many active participants as any since, and the only one with developer support) can tell you that some teams practiced almost every night. Some teams who claimed to be "just in it for fun" ran "stalling lineups" in hope of stealing wins or causing other teams to lose points. Some teams snuck people into the draft using fake globals.
Yet, in the end, it was the team that practiced like 3 times total, didn't have glad jav procs for 9/10 of the league, and ran kins because "IR was fun" that decisively won the league.
Being "Hardcore" or "Elitist", or even "more competitive" has always had little bearing, if any at all on who proves to be "skilled". If anything, history has proven that the most skilled teams are the ones who would play a terrible game together, just because they like playing with one another... and maybe laughing as people somehow manage to lose to them along the way.
Quote:
Well, I was worried there for a sec.
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Originally Posted by vindizzLe
As long as you've known me, Myrm; you should know that ELF-STALKER is the last person I would channel.
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
I joined the leagues as a non-skilled pvper....and now Im subject to calling and Im leading a spike team essentially...because of the role I chose and the necessity of the situation...I feel utterly responsible for me, and the team in this league...
THAT being said I've brought the rep down on a few token champs players....veterans through and through...but they never frown, never get upset, never stop being champions...
Shut up and play!
Modir vid Braije lvl 50 DM/SD scrap
Sinny-Redux lvl 50 fire/regen scrap
Sinny Sonancy lvl 50 rad/sonic fender
"Greatness is fleeting! but Obscurity is FOREVER!!" Napolean Bonaparte
Quote:
/signed|
Originally Posted by Sinny
I've brought the rep down on a few token champs players....veterans through and through...but they never frown, never get upset, never stop being champions...
Shut up and play! |
And you're doing a great job...I've had a blast in all the matches I participated in.
Quote:
Best post in the thread. |
Originally Posted by Sinny
Shut up and play!
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sinny
Shut up and play!
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sohawt when she talks all sassy
to quote someone I know.. LOVE YOUR FACE
Quote:
You know, I feel like I've wasted my time online each day if I don't hear LYF from B or Sinny at least once. ;-)|
Originally Posted by Cherry Cupcakes
sohawt when she talks all sassy
to quote someone I know.. LOVE YOUR FACE |
Oh, and Cherry, I noticed you quoted Rush in your sig. Now I really love yer face!*
*'Face' includes the rest as well.
Quote:
Completely unrelated and doesn't apply to anyone, but okay.
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Originally Posted by Sinny
Shut up and play! |
Fixed for accuracy.
PvPEC Freedom League:
1 Good team:
U2BG
1 solid team:
SMD
Everyone else was mediocre/bad
Ladder following the Freedom League:
1 good team:
becalm
1 solid team:
soco
1 decent team:
anti social
1 half decent team:
dUmb
Everyone else was bad
Bud Bowl:
1 almost decent team:
Steve
1 almost half decent team:
RFR
1 okish team:
Artic and the Chills
Everyone else was terrible
FML:
1 half decent team:
BFG
1 almost half decent team:
dUmb
Everyone else was terrible
Quote:
Fix't.|
Originally Posted by Sinny
Shut up and let them play!
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Why won't the organisers of this league let a new team join? Are the rules that important they need to be enforced so strictly before the league has even started? Can a compromise not be found? Is it wise to block people from participating in a woefully underpopulated part of the game community?
A reasonable person looking to create a fun league would just say. "Oh, well we had a cut-off date. But as the league hasn't even started yet it won't harm anyone to let you come join in the fun!"
I think this is simply a case of reverse-elitism. Casual PVPers who want to lash out at "elite" pvpers by not letting them play ball. I mean let's face it - everyone in this league wants to play. No-one likes losing. If you let Vinnie take part his team will destroy everything you put in front of it. This will be a horrible reality check to the people involved in this. But it's a useful one.
Why?
Because it teaches people something your bootcamp didn't. It teaches them that they're not actually good at PVP.
I remember joining up to Season One of the League and thought I was amazing because I'd PVP'd on Virtue since Arenas were released. I'd always been able to take down my RP buddies. And I trolled around in PVP zones thinking I was amazing. I joined the league and my mind was blown open. I was awful. Vinnie, Silit, and the rest of U2BG taught me how to actually PVP. And while I'm still bad, i'm actually getting better.
Which is something that cannot be said for anyone in this league that doesn't want to play competitively.
Quote:
A compromise was offered.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Fix't.
Why won't the organisers of this league let a new team join? Are the rules that important they need to be enforced so strictly before the league has even started? Can a compromise not be found? Is it wise to block people from participating in a woefully underpopulated part of the game community? |
Cherry and MAH said that those interested could join the free agent list and that offer was turned down.
Quote:
That's not a compromise.|
Originally Posted by Fanged_Knight
A compromise was offered.
Cherry and MAH said that those interested could join the free agent list and that offer was turned down. |
Why did you only respond to one thing in my post? Why did you only quote part of my post?
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]