Making CoX F2P: How would you do it?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-19 21:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I would not do it!
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Originally Posted by American_Knight
. . . For the purposes of this thread, let us assume F2P was seriously being looked at and a redname posted here asking for input/ideas on how is should be implemented.
Again, this is not a debate as to IF it should be done, but your ideas of HOW is should be done. |
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| I would not do it!! - Tabby Cat |
Thank you.
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The question presented is this: |
Originally Posted by American_Knight
I realize people got emotional (name calling, belittling, etc.) in the other thread when discussioning the very topic of F2P. I would, however, appreciate your answer to the question presented and not carry over the debate to this thread.
Thank you. |
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| For the purposes of this thread, let us assume F2P was seriously being looked at and a redname posted here asking for input/ideas on how is should be implemented. |
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| I would not do it! |
The ice-cold truth is that conversions to Free-To-Play business models... Do. Not. Work.
There are several very good reasons why the vast majority of "free-to-play" MMO's on the market have lackluster graphics, repetitive gameplay, and are essentially clones of existing subscription games. I'm not going to go into those reasons mostly because it would give Mod_05 and Mod_13 a headache.
Per-Item-Purchase refers to a business model where the access to the server is made available gratis, and possible the game-client as well. The publisher and developer design their game around the concept that low-cost upgrades or amenities are made available to the player.
Case in point, Global Agenda. The game offers Booster-Packs that provide short term gains to in-game rewards, as well as an Elite-Agent Pack that gives players permanent in-game reward bonus.
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The central, Factual, problem with City of Heroes is that the game has very little that could be turned into a per-item-purchasable business model. As is the forums, which only represent a small portion of the player-base, go into an uproar everytime a new CoH booster-pack is released which contains costume parts or temporary powers that players have to pay for. Why do the forums go into an uproar? Well, many players somehow have this belief that at some point in the games past there was a magical period where costume parts were added for free on a regular basis. A quick look at the CoH issue update page quickly dispells that notion, but for the most part, the player-base isn't exactly willing to pay per costume-part.
That's the reality of CoH's situation. The Player-base has been very vocal that they don't mind paying for Booster Packs to help cover development costs, but they have no interest in everything being gated behind a booster-pack.
As it stands right now, City of Heroes is not in a position where a move to a per-item-purchase model would retain the existing player-base.
At the same time a per-item-purchase model would not bring any substantial new players in.
Now, if you are, for some reason or another, interested in learning the exact business reasons for why a conversion to a per-item-purchase model is an inherently bad idea for a game not designed for a per-item-purchase model, I'd be happy to discuss it outside of the game.
At the end of the day though, the reality is this:
If NCSoft decided to take City of Heroes to a Per-Item-Purchase model, regardless of any player input, plans, ideas, or whatever... The game would no longer be profitable and would be shut down.
Well the first thing I would do is not call them F2P accounts to avoid the stigmata that is associated with them. Instead I would call them Trial Accounts and they would have the following restrictions.
Trial Accounts would last 14 days
Trial Accounts cannot email other players
Trial Accounts may not level past 14
Trial Accounts can only have 50k inf
Trial Accounts may not join global channels
Trial Accounts can only speak in
/local
/hc (the Help channel)
/team
Trial Accounts cannot invite players to team
Trial Accounts may join teams, but not invite other players
Trial Accounts may not join SuperGroups.
Trial Accounts may not create Mission Architect arcs. They can not interface with the Architect Entertainment Stations. However, they can be invited onto a team that is running MA missions.
I'd make each power activation charge you $0.02 or something like that, and then extend the incarnate trials' participation metric to all rewards game-wide.
I also would like to state that I would not bring CoH into F2P. No model has presented itself which benefits longtime, loyal players. F2P models lead the dev team to develop junk content to sell (ie. limited use items) via microtransactions. I would point to real examples, but that would violate forum rules.
Personally, I think the current model is the best for the game at this moment: subs + cosmetic microtransactions + service fees (slots, etc.). CoH is an old game, and I understand that it needs to supplement it's income. I am happy to do my part. Personally, if they should do anything, they should expand the services to allow more character slots per server (more than 36) and add the option to purchase additional account-wide costume slots.
Additionally, I would enjoy for NCsoft to eventually have a "station pass" type option in the future, especially if it included a stipend for the Guild Wars games, but their pay to play lineup isn't as broad as necessary for this sort of option yet.
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So, twist this game into a nightmarish hell? Money to use your powers? Hah!
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
I'd make each power activation charge you $0.02 or something like that, and then extend the incarnate trials' participation metric to all rewards game-wide.
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I'm not going to take sides on this F2P business because I don't care either way, however I am going to call BS on this. A game I used to play (hint: it is based on an old PnP system) that started out as subscription only then converted to a hybrid F2P/subscription system 2 years ago. This same game which at one point in 2008 had only about 20-30k population (1/10th of its 2006 launch numbers) all the sudden spiked up to over a million in less than a year. Players who bought subscription also doubled that of the pre-conversion era. Revenue (most of it generated from store transactions) jumped 500%. And from first hand experience, the graphics of that game is better than CoH, mostly because it is newer. The game play is a bit more frustrating than CoH and it is just as repetitive. Content level is about the same but it definitely has more end game content. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
The ice-cold truth is that conversions to Free-To-Play business models... Do. Not. Work.
There are several very good reasons why the vast majority of "free-to-play" MMO's on the market have lackluster graphics, repetitive gameplay, and are essentially clones of existing subscription games. I'm not going to go into those reasons mostly because it would give Mod_05 and Mod_13 a headache. |
Now this doesn't mean F2P will work out for CoH nor does it mean that CoH should convert to a hybrid plan, at least not yet. The only thing I'm saying is that F2P *could* work for a MMO if it is implemented correctly. It is essentially a plan that allows you to buy only what you want/need which is quite common in a lot of other retail segments. However, if that becomes to chosen business model, it absolutely can not give the impression that the customers are being nickled and dimed for every little feature. That type of business model which is common to a lot of games that started as F2P right off the bat will turn off a lot of potential customers. Fact of the matter is, as products age and revenues decline, companies have to look to other revenue generating models or be forced to shut the product line down. You don't need a MBA to know this, just a semester in any business school would suffice. In any case, CoH is not at that point yet (assuming it ever gets there) but *if* the time does come, I have no doubt F2P will be on the table.
Edit: In case you guys haven't noticed, CoH has already taken on a lot of characteristics that are common to F2P games. Pay additional money for more character slots. Pay additional money for special costumes. Pay additional money to gain extra powers for your characters. About the only thing we're missing is paying money to gain access to certain classes/ATs and additional content. We are inching closer to F2P than most would care to admit and frankly, I'm a bit surprised more people haven't spoken up about this trend yet.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
As it stands right now, City of Heroes is not in a position where a move to a per-item-purchase model would retain the existing player-base.
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Because it's not. There's a core difference between F2P and what CoX does; in F2P you don't pay anything to access the game at a basic level and then all additional features cost you money. With CoX, you pay a basic subscription to access the game and all of its core features, the things you can pay for are all "cosmetic" (that is to say that not purchasing them does not affect your ability to play the game or your effectiveness within it).|
Originally Posted by baron_inferno
Edit: In case you guys haven't noticed, CoH has already taken on a lot of characteristics that are common to F2P games. Pay additional money for more character slots. Pay additional money for special costumes. Pay additional money to gain extra powers for your characters. About the only thing we're missing is paying money to gain access to certain classes/ATs and additional content. We are inching closer to F2P than most would care to admit and frankly, I'm a bit surprised more people haven't spoken up about this trend yet.
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They might make your life easier (Ninja Run, Mission Teleporter) or prettier (Costume Booster Packs) or more flexible (Server Transfers/Extra Slots) but no game content is gated behind them.
Now, once you start either gating content or providing serious enhancements to players who purchase things (by way of powers/buffs) that aren't available to those who don't pay, then you have a problem. Seriously, the way that a lot of games are going these days with some of their DLC and "Pre-Order Bonuses", they might as well just bundle a God Mode instead.
Note that this does not cover expansion packs.
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Why are people suggestion this anew every 1-2 weeks?
It has been discussed to death on these forums. And the reasons why this is a bad idea have been legion. Please use the search function next time :S
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Sorry but I'm in the "Just don't do it" camp.
Unless you've restricted said F2P accounts in exactly the same way you have Trial accounts, you open the door to griefers and goldspammers.
The thought of that is enough to make me want to drive down to the NCSoft hosting facility and reenact the Blues Brothers mall chase through their server farm area.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Because some people are stupid, impatient, greedy, and think that if they badger enough for it, that it'll happen and the world will align itself to their wishes.|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
Why are people suggestion this anew every 1-2 weeks?
It has been discussed to death on these forums. And the reasons why this is a bad idea have been legion. Please use the search function next time :S |
I have lots of fun laughing at said personages.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Which works well for one person, not so well when there are lots trying to do it |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
and the world will align itself to their wishes.
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Omnes relinquite spes, o vos intrantes
My Characters
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Last.fm Feed
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True and that's why I said it's only inching, not a full out sprint. Once a game actually starts charging for access additional core content and other important advancement features, it has reached a point of no return on the path to F2P.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Because it's not. There's a core difference between F2P and what CoX does; in F2P you don't pay anything to access the game at a basic level and then all additional features cost you money. With CoX, you pay a basic subscription to access the game and all of its core features, the things you can pay for are all "cosmetic" (that is to say that not purchasing them does not affect your ability to play the game or your effectiveness within it).
They might make your life easier (Ninja Run, Mission Teleporter) or prettier (Costume Booster Packs) or more flexible (Server Transfers/Extra Slots) but no game content is gated behind them. |
Um... wasn't the point of this thread NOT to debate the topic of F2P, but play around on how it could be done?
One model I saw that liked was tiered.
F2P can play content till level 15. After that, each tier of levels has its own associated costs. F2P can team with others who have these missions, but will not get the mission complete xp bonus unless they have them unlocked/purchased. So F2P can reach level 50, but it will be harder to accomplish and have very little to do themselves.
*15-30 contacts
*30-40 contacts
*40-50 contacts
*Incarnate
*Radio/Newspaper also for sale in level tiers
*Tip missions as well
*Access to TF individually for sale
*Limited market slots (can buy more)
*Limited costume slots (can buy more)
*Limited character slots (can buy more)
*Low influence cap, you can buy bigger wallets.
*Add the stuff American Knight said.
Basically the player could pay for what he feels like playing. A MMO that followed a similar model got some cash from me it would not have gotten otherwise. It was entertaining and I wanted to play it, but not enough to give it $15 a month. I was not going to play enough to justify that expense.
However, knowing that $40 bought me enough to keep me busy for 5 or more months, despite all the in-game limitations I had, kept me happy.
Not saying I like the idea of a F2P CoH. But this micro-transaction/nickle-n-diming could work for some people.
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Yup. And the general consensus is that 'It wouldn't be, because it shouldn't be.'|
Originally Posted by Tormentoso
Um... wasn't the point of this thread NOT to debate the topic of F2P, but play around on how it could be done?
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None of this will ever convert people to seeing some mystical golden glory of going F2P. Because such a thing doesn't even exist.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well, since it shouldn't be done under any circumstances, there is very little point trying to figure out how to do it. |
Originally Posted by Tormentoso
Um... wasn't the point of this thread NOT to debate the topic of F2P, but play around on how it could be done?
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F2P can, will, and almost surely would kill this game if they tried it.
Look what happened to CoH's competition. They lost over $20 million in less than 2 years in an attempt to go F2P. NCSoft and Paragon are NOT stupid enough to follow in their footsteps toward oblivion. If CoH started losing NCSoft money like the other game did for their parent company, there is no doubt that CoH would be put down like a rabid dog.
Hell, NCSoft is shutting down the NA servers of one of their OWN games right now, and people still play that one. You don't really think the idea of making one of their more popular NA games F2P has much appeal to them, do you?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Well as long as that one person is me, the rest of you can go to hell for all I care.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Which works well for one person, not so well when there are lots trying to do it
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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The simple answer is that it shouldn't be done. I don't care about hypothetical situations and possibilities. If City of Heroes goes "Free" to Play, I cancel my subscription, uninstall the NCsoft Launcher and never look at the franchise again. That's all the discussion that needs to be had on the subject as far as I'm concerned.|
Originally Posted by American_Knight
Again, this is not a debate as to IF it should be done, but your ideas of HOW is should be done.
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To me, this is like that "Life After People" tripe that the History Channel keeps rerunning. "This isn't about how human life would end, but about what happens when they do." Here's the thing - I don't CARE what would happen if people suddenly disappeared off the face of the Earth but left all their possessions and buildings behind intact. I'm not interested in idle hypothetics that start with a basic assumption which is neither pleasant nor interesting.
Other games may or may not have had success with F2P transitions. Other games are not City of Heroes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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So if something shouldn't be done and/or should not happen, we can't play pretendy imagination world. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Well, since it shouldn't be done under any circumstances, there is very little point trying to figure out how to do it.
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Got it.
EDIT: Before people go all "Rawr Rawr Rawr" I would like to add that I believe making CoH F2P would be a very bad idea and our current system is so complex that making a viable and profitable F2P system is most likely not worth all the programming, concept design time, expenses, and so on. I don't think it will work here.
However, f2p has worked for some, been disasters to others, and I have no problem with "what ifs."
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That is not "A characteristic of F2P games." That has happened in... what, *every* MMO, before F2P was more than "Hey, look, cruddy flash browser game."
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Originally Posted by baron_inferno
Edit: In case you guys haven't noticed, CoH has already taken on a lot of characteristics that are common to F2P games. Pay additional money for more character slots. Pay additional money for special costumes. Pay additional money to gain extra powers for your characters
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"What If" works for Marvel Comics only because it's a non-canon series.|
Originally Posted by Tormentoso
However, f2p has worked for some, been disasters to others, and I have no problem with "what ifs."
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Honestly, we might just as easily, and usefully, debate what we think CoH should do if NCSoft decided to make the code open source.
When you log in and log out, you should see an athletic shoe commercial.
In the Q Earnings thread there was/is a debate about whether or not CoX should go F2P (free 2 play: relying on micro-transactions for money). For the purposes of this thread, let us assume F2P was seriously being looked at and a redname posted here asking for input/ideas on how is should be implemented.
Again, this is not a debate as to IF it should be done, but your ideas of HOW is should be done.
Please keep in mind that the forum rules prohibit speaking about other games (people were admonished for doing this in the other thread). So while you may be tempted to say CoX should be like XXXXX, please be more specific as to the details.
Here is my idea:
Have both subscription and F2P. The subscription player would get everything we get already. Still have to pay for boosters but at half cost.
The F2P player would only get:
- 2 character slots per server (can purchase more)
- have to pay full price for boosters
- have to pay one time fee for entering PvP zones
- have to pay a one time fee for entering Pocket D (this would not allow you Itrials - see below)
- have to pay a one time fee for entering MA
-have to pay a fee per character you want to incarante
This is what I got off the top of my head. I figured this plan would not "screw over" subscribers, and still make money off of peoples' desires to create alts.
Please share your own F2P plan.