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Responding to someone you put on ignore seems to be poor usage of the ignore functionality. Looks more like grandstanding.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Is Wendy still responding to me? If she is I don't know why she is bothering.
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Pretty sad and passive-aggressive too. Really S_G, you're better than this; if you've got no more points to support your argument, accept that it's weak and move on.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
Responding to someone you put on ignore seems to be poor usage of the ignore functionality. Looks more like grandstanding.
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Not directed at anybody in particular- I used the League Que feature the other night - did not feel the need to stand in a zone with people spamming power effects. Got on a Lammbda went well . Someone did get kicked - the door sitter from Team 1 - the leader continously warned this person. I'm not sure that standing in a zone with somebody amkes you a better teammate then someone in another zone in the que.
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I agree with Memphis_Bill:|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Edit: If Wendy actually is on your ignore list why do you care what she says? Are you concerned she may be tearing apart the flaws in your argument for everyone to see and by ignoring her you are now powerless to refute her? Just curious.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
(Edit: And I do think you're reading Wendy wrong - but I also get the feeling you're both grating on each other at this point, and backing off is probably the wisest course of action.)
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Other players might consider trials their quiet time. They pay their sub the same as you do. Who are you to decide which is right?
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Ah but by merely being IN the trial they've changed it. They add to spawn size and their added FX might contribute to crashes by others.
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- Talos Wentworths (any server)
- Atlas Park (any server)
- Pocket D (any server)
- RWZ (any server)
- Rikti Raid event (any server)
- Zombie event (any server)
- Banner event (any server)
- Most of Praetoria
- Virtue Server (any zone)
- Freedom Server (any zone)
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
And the ENTIRE POINT of this thread and others like it is to tell the Devs we don't agree with their expectations. To explain why we don't agree with their expectations. To try to offer alternatives to their expectations.
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Oh and btw if they didn't want players to have private (pre-built) leagues then they would FORCE them to use the turnstile ALL THE TIME. I wonder how long that idea would last...
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
It's not that they refuse to see the positive sides of the system, they simply feel that the negatives outweigh them. And again, they pay their subs as well so you cannot say that your opinion is more right than theirs.
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Translation: You should always bring enough food and drink for 1-2 extra guests to show up at your party whether you want them there or not. I don't care if you're holding a private party, the fact that you're holding it at the subdivision's clubhouse means that when the two guys from down the block show up you HAVE to let them in if you have room.
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Give me your address. Host a cookout someday for JUST people you know. It could be special, like a costume party. I'm going to show up dressed inappropriately. I'm going to bring food and drink so I'm not mooching but I'm going to be dressed in a way not fitting with the occasion. Oh by the way I'm bringing some drunken guy that you don't know and I don't even know. He might be a swell guy for all we know...but he might not. Think of it as a way to meet a new golf buddy.
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3. No posting of personal information Please respect the privacy of other City of Heroes/Villains players and do not give out personal information such as phone numbers, addresses, email addresses, etc. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Snow Globe: You are the one arguing that the game has the right to just shove players into other peoples' leagues and that those people are jerks for doing something about it and shouldn't have the right to do anything about it.
You're arguing that people shouldn't have a choice, a fundamental choice that MMORPG players expect because every other major western MMORPG nigh-universally gives them that choice, including COH for the last 7 years of its operation. That choice is the choice of who they team with.
Yes, there are devices in some MMOs where you can be matched with teammates at random, but those are fully optional to actually experiencing that content. If you want to queue for a random team to do a dungeon in another game, you can. If you don't, though, you can walk to the dungeon and step in anyway. With less than a full team or raid, if you so choose. With only the people you wish to, if you so choose.
That second part is what's missing from the trials. There's no option but to use the random team finder. It's not good for anybody for players not to have that option in the incarnate trials. And even those other games that do have random team finders, give teams the right to kick others off for whatever reason.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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While I do agree with the fact that we don't have to have a certain team build to run raids, there have been times in the past where players running certain TFs would only take certain builds.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Other MMOs also have levels of gear - and the raid for gear to raid for gear to raid for gear cycle. Other MMOs also have the "holy trinity" needed as part of a team.
We don't. What that other MMO system may need to eliminate "I'm sorry, you're a Nightwatchman, we need a Cleric!" we don't need here. |
When the STF first came out, my main badger (Ice/Ice Blaster) could not get a place on any team to run it, barring my SG attempts at it. I basically gave up on trying to get those badges for awhile, and eventually got them after I18. (I also had a 2 year break from CoH in there, so it's possible I could have gotten it earlier.)
While it's true that the two new raids are very flexible in team builds, I could foresee a time when a harder trial might come along and start the "exclusivity" again. I can understand that people want to ensure that they will be successful; if I put the time into something, I want it to be successful as well. It's just too bad that some people are unwilling to think/plan outside the box.
As for limiting the size of leagues, I can see why some people would like it. For other content (TFs/trials), you can be allowed to take the minimum need to run it, so why not for these? Sometimes it's nice to play content with just friends. Sometimes it's fun to play with PUGs. I think it'd be to nice to have both choices in-game. After all, who doesn't benefit from more choices instead of less?
I find your lack of signature disturbing.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You might want to check the forum rules & guidelines:
Asking for that information might be considered trolling. |
Snow we all see what your doing. You are trying to use the forum rules as a smokescreen rather than admit that you don't believe what you've been arguing applies to you.
Everyone including the mods knows Comics wasn't asking or expecting you to actually post personal info on the forums.
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Snow Globe, perhaps the issue is that you tend to come across as pretty darn condescending. Whether you mean to, or not. If by the name calling you were talking about was being called a "fascist," it's only because you're demeanor (or the way your demeanor comes across) just gives that impression of you. I'm more than content to "play nice," but it's hard to do so with most of what you've been saying to ayone who disagrees with you.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I agree with Memphis_Bill:
I backed off of Wendy by ignoring her posts. Seeing that even trying to say anything to her sparked another round of venom, I'm literally tuning her out. If she wants to continue, that's fine. I don't have to put up with it though. |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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She's making valid points that some of us are happy to hear.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Is Wendy still responding to me? If she is I don't know why she is bothering.
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By the way, does your post serve ANY purpose aside from drama? If you've put someone on ignore, at least don't be a tool about it by announcing and dramatizing it.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Comic's "point" was inherently flawed.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Snow we all see what your doing. You are trying to use the forum rules as a smokescreen rather than admit that you don't believe what you've been arguing applies to you.
Everyone including the mods knows Comics wasn't asking or expecting you to actually post personal info on the forums. |
A private function at -my- residence isn't a public function. On the other hand if I had a party at a restaurant, I couldn't stop anyone from going to said restaurant unless I made previsions with the management to book (fill) the entire restaurant's seating. The management still has the right to let other people in if the reservation is less than the available seating, at -their- discretion, not the people booking a less than full group.
The same thing applies to the LFG queue. A full league books the entire reservation for the trial, a partial league is open to other people joining.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
And the presence of the kick button means that the devs are fine with us kicking people out to return to our desired size. If that causes butthurt, why not just let us lock the league?
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Comic's "point" was inherently flawed.
A private function at -my- residence isn't a public function. On the other hand if I had a party at a restaurant, I couldn't stop anyone from going to said restaurant unless I made previsions with the management to book (fill) the entire restaurant's seating. The management still has the right to let other people in if the reservation is less than the available seating, at -their- discretion, not the people booking a less than full group. The same thing applies to the LFG queue. A full league books the entire reservation for the trial, a partial league is open to other people joining. |
Analogy fail there...sorry.
If I have a league event in the RWZ and other people show up, they're sitting in the restaurant.
If I have a trial and uninvited people show up they're not in the restaurant, they're sitting at our tables eating our food and sharing our conversation. Even if they pay their own tab they're uninvited.
As for my earlier point regarding the idea of ONLY being able to enter the trials via the turnstile, I can say with some degree of certainty that players would stop using them and express their disfavor with their 'unsub' buttons. The level of negativity in this and similar threads is a pretty good indicator of that.
And if you feel so strongly in favor of the system, would it be possible for you to validate your beliefs by ONLY using the turnstile system from now on? I mean you advocate using it, you apparently hope the Devs will change the system to make it mandatory, so my only question is are you strong enough in your convictions to lead the charge and be the first to do so?
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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No it isn't.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Comic's "point" was inherently flawed.
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A private function at -my- residence isn't a public function. On the other hand if I had a party at a restaurant, I couldn't stop anyone from going to said restaurant unless I made previsions with the management to book (fill) the entire restaurant's seating. The management still has the right to let other people in if the reservation is less than the available seating, at -their- discretion, not the people booking a less than full group. The same thing applies to the LFG queue. A full league books the entire reservation for the trial, a partial league is open to other people joining. |
Just because an event is being held online doesn't invalidate it's privacy, and your dancing around, and desperate attempts to come up with excuses and justifications only proves you know your argument is flawed and you don't really believe in it.
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No, they are not. If the restaurant seats 16 people, and you have a reservation for 10, and 5 people are already there then the people with the reservation can't kick out the 5 people already there. If you have a reservation for 16 people, the management will ask the extras to leave or, in this case, move the 16 people to a new room.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Analogy fail there...sorry.
If I have a league event in the RWZ and other people show up, they're sitting in the restaurant. If I have a trial and uninvited people show up they're not in the restaurant, they're sitting at our tables eating our food and sharing our conversation. Even if they pay their own tab they're uninvited. |
You are confusing a public venue with a private venue. The LFG queue is a public venue.
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
As for my earlier point regarding the idea of ONLY being able to enter the trials via the turnstile, I can say with some degree of certainty that players would stop using them and express their disfavor with their 'unsub' buttons. The level of negativity in this and similar threads is a pretty good indicator of that.
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
And if you feel so strongly in favor of the system, would it be possible for you to validate your beliefs by ONLY using the turnstile system from now on? I mean you advocate using it, you apparently hope the Devs will change the system to make it mandatory, so my only question is are you strong enough in your convictions to lead the charge and be the first to do so?
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Would I prefer a strong signal that private leagues aren't really private? Of course. I am not going to cut my nose to spite you though. If I make a league and it doesn't fill, then I'll continue to gladly accept people from the queue. Why? It is because I don't consider a less than full league to be private.
I think anyone that thinks taking less than a full league to a trial gives them the right to a private trial is deluding themselves.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Is Wendy still responding to me? If she is I don't know why she is bothering.
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NO actually she isn't The funny thing is since he can't see what I post he has no clue .
Hello all to be perfectly honest I was pretty much done with this thread and moved on. I think my last few posts more than covered how I feel on this topic and from what i have read the past few days with only a very few exception most of you feel the same way.
I don't know if we will ever convince the Devs to give us a lock system. Personally I'd prefer if they just found a sloution to the lag and unless it was 2AM and a leader just flat out couldn't find anyone else to join almost every team out there would have 24 players heading into the BAF or 16 ot Lambda. One thing I think I can just about guarentee is this will never be the case....
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Originally Posted by Comicsluvr Oh and btw if they didn't want players to have private (pre-built) leagues then they would FORCE them to use the turnstile ALL THE TIME. I wonder how long that idea would last... |
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| In a way I hope that happens, it would send an even clearer signal than already exists that if you want to participate in the trials, it will be an inclusive effort. |
Well I'm pretty much done here. I wasn't planning to even make this post but after a bit of thinking on the subject I felt I had to throw in one more. MR. GLOBE has seen fit to post at least two times mentioning my name after supposedly stating he was ignoring me and while that suits me fine I felt I needed to drop by one last time and post just so no one, including him, gets the idea that I have in some way conceded and he WON? Trust me my opinion on the matter stands and I'm quite happy with the situation. Since he no longer sees my post he can no longer respond to them so in my mind I lost nothing by aggrevation. Take care all and have fun here and in game
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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No, Comic stated he wanted my address so he can crash a party there. Not a public venue, my address. That invalidates his argument. He didn't say next time you plan a party in a park or restaurant or meeting hall (though if I booked a meeting hall, I could freely have him and his "friend" ejected as long as I followed the rules of the contract).|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No it isn't.
Private functions can be held in any public setting even outdoors and no one calls the people hosting the functions rude or jerks when uninvited people crash them. Try crashing an outdoor wedding, birthday party, or family reunion for example in a park and see if you aren't the one being the obnoxious jerk. Just because an event is being held online doesn't invalidate it's privacy, and your dancing around, and desperate attempts to come up with excuses and justifications only proves you know your argument is flawed and you don't really believe in it. |
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| Give me your address. Host a cookout someday for JUST people you know. It could be special, like a costume party. I'm going to show up dressed inappropriately. I'm going to bring food and drink so I'm not mooching but I'm going to be dressed in a way not fitting with the occasion. Oh by the way I'm bringing some drunken guy that you don't know and I don't even know. He might be a swell guy for all we know...but he might not. Think of it as a way to meet a new golf buddy. |
If he wants to go to a restaurant, a park, or other public place I'm visiting, then he has to follow the rules of the business or area in question. At a park or some other place, I have only have recourse if he attacks or is stalking me. At my address, I can phone the police and have him arrested and removed for trespassing because I do have an expectation of privacy on my own property.
Asking for my private address does invalidate my expectancy of privacy.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
and your dancing around, and desperate attempts to come up with excuses and justifications only proves you know your argument is flawed and you don't really believe in it.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Keep dancing Snow it's very entertaining.
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So, you either have little to no understanding of the concept of sarcasm, or you're purposefully hiding behind technicalities in a desperate attempt to get someone in trouble with the mods. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Asking for my private address does invalidate my expectancy of privacy.
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And you wonder why you've had so much "venom" thrown at you.
Of course, I'm not sure I should bother calling out any of SG's shenanigans at this point. I'm pretty sure I've moved to the ignore list. It's how he wins his arguments.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
I understand that only a small percentage of players read or post to the Forums. However the fact that they DO make the effort to come here, read and even post shows that they have a more than casual interest in the game. They like being informed.
There is no way for us to know if the players on the Forums are a good representation of the playerbase as a whole. However I don't think its unreasonable to take the Forumites as a good and representative sample of all the players.
If this is the case then a simple head count of the number of players who have expressed opinions for and against the turnstile system would put some of the arguements to rest. From what I've seen there are far more posters in disagreement with the system than who agree with it.
One of the things that the Devs should try to do is keep the majority of their players happy. The players support the game...not the Devs or their opinions or goals. If the Devs do something that most of the players really don't like then this is bad for the game in general.
From what I've read the majority of the players posting here don't like the turnstile system as it stands. This alone should prompt the Devs to reconsider the system.
Happy players spend lots of money. Unhappy players spend little money. Pissed-off players spend none.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
Don't confuse a majority opinion with a vocal minority. There are about a dozen people posting the same things in pretty much every tangentially related thread to the issue.
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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But the LEAGUE is NOT. This is demonstrated beyond any doubt by the leader having the unilateral ability to kick anyone they choose.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You are confusing a public venue with a private venue. The LFG queue is a public venue.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Okay let's examin the queue system as it stands today. Earlier I did a small experiment to assist another thread in determining what could and could not be done with waiting in the queue
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=333
so to sumarize for you once you enter the queue
1. You can not use the train, ferry, heleicopter, ouro portal, base portal or any other means of transportation that requires a zoning screen. You are basically stuck where ever you are
2. You can craft new IO enhancements but don't try to slot them because accessing that screen will kick you from the queue
3. You can't enter your SG base, if you belong to one, and you can't do door missions of any kind.. again because the zoning screen will kick you out of the queue.
4. If you decided to respec you character or create a new costume while you wait.. you can't because that full screen menu will once again kick you out of the queue.
5. while it may vary from time of day or even server to server the wait to get onto a team can be as much as 20 to 30 minutes despite the 1 or 2 minute wait mentioned when you enter the queue.
Basically you are stuck where ever you join the queue and can't really do much that's productive while you wait except resupply your inspirations if they aren't full. You may waste as much as 30 minutes trying to get into a trial and when you finally do, considering the content of this thread, there is a very good chance the league leader will kick you right back out of the trial because the league only wanted 16 or 18 members to cut down on the lag inside the trial. You just wasted half an hour of playing time and now get to go join the queue all over again.
Frankly if someone presented me with a new product and that was the desciption of how it would work I'd feel pretty foolish even thinking about using it. I join leagues.. I can log on and head to the RWZ. I check my global channels and then the broadcast in zone for what is available and usually within a few minutes I am in a league and depending when they started forming within 5-10 minutes I can be inside a trial earning threads. I used half the time it took you to get an invite and I didn't have to sit around afraid to do anything for fear of lossing my spot in the queue.
Now explain to me exactly what is even remotely attarctive about joining the queue over finding a league and just joining before they step inside? I donk the issue is a locking devise on league.. fix the lag. That will solve the biggest part of the problem because the leagues will all go back to being full before they enter the queue. If a league enters the trial with 24 players the queue can't assigna a single person to it. Then the other thing that will need to happen is that tiny fraction of the player base that seems to be perfectly willing to let the game find them a team instead of looking for themselves will need to wake up and go find a team or they may be up to an hour sitting around waiting for an invite.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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No one is confusing Snow as anything other than a vocal minority.
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Originally Posted by Von Krieger
Don't confuse a majority opinion with a vocal minority. There are about a dozen people posting the same things in pretty much every tangentially related thread to the issue.
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RE: The last 3 pages
Hahaha wow.
Ah but by merely being IN the trial they've changed it. They add to spawn size and their added FX might contribute to crashes by others.
And the ENTIRE POINT of this thread and others like it is to tell the Devs we don't agree with their expectations. To explain why we don't agree with their expectations. To try to offer alternatives to their expectations.
Oh and btw if they didn't want players to have private (pre-built) leagues then they would FORCE them to use the turnstile ALL THE TIME. I wonder how long that idea would last...
I'm in Quality Assurance and Inspection. This means that it's my job to spot mistakes and try to track them back to their source. Sometimes we use complex terms and diagrams for this, sometimes simple flow charts are sufficient. For the current situation I would use a simple cause/effect chart.
Effect: Players are unhappy with the current turnstile system for trials. Cause: The current system is forcing players to accept members to their league they do not want for whatever reason. Effect: Players are pre-building leagues to avoid unwanted players from being added to their league. Cause: See previous cause. Effect: Players attempting to use the turnstile system may have unreasonably long wait times because very few league leaders do not use pre-built leagues. Cause: See previous cause.
In my line of work when you have this many negative effects stemming from a single cause, you need to rethink the cause.
It's not that they refuse to see the positive sides of the system, they simply feel that the negatives outweigh them. And again, they pay their subs as well so you cannot say that your opinion is more right than theirs.
Give me your address. Host a cookout someday for JUST people you know. It could be special, like a costume party. I'm going to show up dressed inappropriately. I'm going to bring food and drink so I'm not mooching but I'm going to be dressed in a way not fitting with the occasion. Oh by the way I'm bringing some drunken guy that you don't know and I don't even know. He might be a swell guy for all we know...but he might not. Think of it as a way to meet a new golf buddy.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"